Marrk said:

MJ's voice is very engaging even on poor material, so i'll listen. Madonna just can not hold my attention in the same way.

I'm a huge fan of Michael but I feel that he didn't allow himself to grow and evolve as an artist the way that Madonna has.'Ray Of Light' was a bold,challenging album for Madonna and it was unlike anything she had ever done.I can't really say the same about most of MJ's post-Thriller work.

MrSmoketoomuch said:

when browsing through the posts in here, the most stunning thing I suddenly realized...

no matter what your exact choices are for Michael or Madonna, the worst Michael album still can run circles around the best Madonna album

and for the record, I do like Madonna

The opposite is true for me. MJ's music never got me like Madonna or Prince's did. I think MJ was amazing but I just never really liked his music. My sister was the MJ fan.

SoulAlive said:

MrSmoketoomuch said:

when browsing through the posts in here, the most stunning thing I suddenly realized...

no matter what your exact choices are for Michael or Madonna, the worst Michael album still can run circles around the best Madonna album

and for the record, I do like Madonna

I totally disagree

but it's still true

rlittler81 said:

MrSmoketoomuch said:

when browsing through the posts in here, the most stunning thing I suddenly realized...

no matter what your exact choices are for Michael or Madonna, the worst Michael album still can run circles around the best Madonna album

and for the record, I do like Madonna

The opposite is true for me. MJ's music never got me like Madonna or Prince's did. I think MJ was amazing but I just never really liked his music. My sister was the MJ fan.

fair enuff. still for me ther are more fillers on Madonna albums than on Michaels, materialwise. and concerning the vocal qualities let's be honest this isn't even a contest

MrSmoketoomuch said:

rlittler81 said:

The opposite is true for me. MJ's music never got me like Madonna or Prince's did. I think MJ was amazing but I just never really liked his music. My sister was the MJ fan.

fair enuff. still for me ther are more fillers on Madonna albums than on Michaels, materialwise. and concerning the vocal qualities let's be honest this isn't even a contest

Depends what vocal style you respond to I guess.

Michael jackson's album History shits on Madonna's entire catalog

MrSmoketoomuch said:

SoulAlive said:

I totally disagree

but it's still true

Stop passing your opinion off as fact.

seeingvoices12 said:

Michael jackson's album History shits on Madonna's entire catalog

Nothing that contains anything as dire as "Childhood" can lay claim to shitting on anything.

HIStory has a lot of good to great tracks, and I do think it's underrated, but it can't compete with either Michael's best or Madonna's best, in my opinion.

No denying MJ's influence on Madonna. She clearly LOVED him.

Even on BET 106 & Park when he was still with us...and it wasn't fashionable to still love him..."Nothing's better than OLD SCHOOL Michael Jackson!"

The first album was very MJ inspired, IMO.

Her "Billie Jean" interlude on The Virgin Tour...

The crotch grabbing in "Express Yourself" and on the Blond Ambition show...

Hiring his manager back in the early 80s...

I think it's almost unfair to compare them. She is a generation, maybe two after him...not in terms of age but in terms of when they debuted as performers. People say Elvis, Marilyn, Chrissie Hynde, David Bowie, Tina Turner, Debbie Harry all influenced Madonna...without a doubt, all of them did, but I think her biggest influence is MJ.

However she did surpass him in terms of quantity and sheer output. And her records are so different from one another whereas Mike - yes, Off the Wall sounds different than HIStory, but he didn't exactly do an album of 30s showtunes and then 4 years later a mellow new jack swing album then another 4 years a trip-hop/trance-inspired record...i'd say overall she surpasses him in breadth of styles, versaility, business-savvy and thinking outside the box, musically and performance-wise, whereas he surpasses her in overall quality of output and originality.

Unholyalliance said:

SoulAlive said:

I'm a huge fan of Michael but I feel that he didn't allow himself to grow and evolve as an artist the way that Madonna has.'Ray Of Light' was a bold,challenging album for Madonna and it was unlike anything she had ever done.I can't really say the same about most of MJ's post-Thriller work.

I, respectfully, disagree. I do agree that Madonna's Ray Of Light was one of her best albums and it was one of the most adventurous and has been credited to bringing house/electronica to the American pop music scene (as well as being my favorite album from her), but I don't find that MJ's post-Thriller work stagnant. While I do think that he kept to the similar themes in terms of dark/bordering emo subject matter such as paranoia, 'evil women', the eventual expansion to social commentary & etc. I think that he explored a lot in terms of blending genres and his songwriting improved dramatically from when he first started. Especially in his 90s work, it's some of his most diverse. You have the operatic pop of Childhood to the industrial rock of Morphine. Michael Jackson of the Thriller era was not capable of such songwriting as it was not evident in his work at that time.

While you and some others may not have been huge fans of it, doesn't mean that he stayed in one place artistically in the least bit.

I just feel that he stayed with the same type of sound for too long: a hard,driving R&B dance sound.The uptempo songs on 'Invincible' are stale and formulaic and didn't take him into any new directions.It's basically the same sound we heard on 'HIStory' and 'Blood On The Dancefloor'.While he was doing these albums,Madonna was doing things like 'Evita','Ray Of Light'....blending acoustic rock and electronica on 'American Life',making a retro dance album aimed at the dancefloor ('Confessions') and then finally going back to an R&B sound on 'Hard Candy'.Michael was such an amazingly talented artist but I think he was struck in his comfort zone for too long.....afraid to take chances and try different beats and sounds.

I really don't get this. Are we seriously comparing Michael Jackson and Madonna?

All of Michael's albums from OTW to Invincible are at least very good albums. Invincible is a good album.

I don't take Madonna seriously as an artist. "She's done this style, this and this blah blah" She isn't someone who is born with music in her blood (only way I can describe it). She isn't.. REAL!

You see Michael, Prince, Stevie, Marvin. Even Justin Timberlake, Usher, Beyonce. These people are so into music, I just see Madonna as someone I can't take seriously as an artist and musician.. NAAAHH Not very talented. Come on. She's a business woman.

And don't start comparing their vocals and saying 'depends how you receive vocals'. Whut da fuck?! Huh!?! stfu

I really didn't wanna go there I like Michael Jackson and Madonna.I'm not really arguing about who is more talented,I'm talking about growing and evolving as an artist.As amazing as Michael Jackson was,he never really evolved as an artist.After 'Thriller',there were some great tunes here and there,but he never took it another level.Love her or hate her,you can't deny that Madonna evolved,took chances and tried new sounds throughout her career.why do you think the term "reinvention" is always used when folks speak about her?

johnart said:

MADONNA

Best: 3 Way Tie Madonna/Erotica/Bedtime Stories

Worst: American Life

MICHAEL JACKSON

I don't own any MJ albums

[Edited 1/28/11 21:45pm]

emails John Michael's entire 1969-2009 catalog

SoulAlive said:

Worst Madonna album: American Life

Worst Michael Jackson album: HIStory

[img:$uid]http://i55.tinypic.com/29kugle.jpg[/img:$uid]

NO YOU DI'NT!

seeingvoices12 said:

Michael jackson's album History shits on Madonna's entire catalog

i concur ONE BILLION, KAZILLION PERCENT.

Michael's worst album by far is Invincible (although if we wanna count Jackson 5/Jacksons albums, it's definitely Skywriter)

SoulAlive said:

Unholyalliance said:

I, respectfully, disagree. I do agree that Madonna's Ray Of Light was one of her best albums and it was one of the most adventurous and has been credited to bringing house/electronica to the American pop music scene (as well as being my favorite album from her), but I don't find that MJ's post-Thriller work stagnant. While I do think that he kept to the similar themes in terms of dark/bordering emo subject matter such as paranoia, 'evil women', the eventual expansion to social commentary & etc. I think that he explored a lot in terms of blending genres and his songwriting improved dramatically from when he first started. Especially in his 90s work, it's some of his most diverse. You have the operatic pop of Childhood to the industrial rock of Morphine. Michael Jackson of the Thriller era was not capable of such songwriting as it was not evident in his work at that time.

While you and some others may not have been huge fans of it, doesn't mean that he stayed in one place artistically in the least bit.

I just feel that he stayed with the same type of sound for too long: a hard,driving R&B dance sound.The uptempo songs on 'Invincible' are stale and formulaic and didn't take him into any new directions.It's basically the same sound we heard on 'HIStory' and 'Blood On The Dancefloor'.While he was doing these albums,Madonna was doing things like 'Evita','Ray Of Light'....blending acoustic rock and electronica on 'American Life',making a retro dance album aimed at the dancefloor ('Confessions') and then finally going back to an R&B sound on 'Hard Candy'.Michael was such an amazingly talented artist but I think he was struck in his comfort zone for too long.....afraid to take chances and try different beats and sounds.

for me though, it's about intent. michael to me, was about presenting light and healing. i don't receive that same intent and energy from madonna. this is why i feel michael is a better artist. i don't hear madonna speaking about the government and the state of our world in the same way. artistically she may cross boundaries (even though i feel michael did as well); madonna to me upheld the socio-political status quo. to me, she never challenged anyone revolutionarily in that way. to me, albums like HIStory are a call to action. madonna appropriated many cultures, but i never received the energy of light, even though she sang about it. all i see is darkness and devlish energy from madonna.

this is purely my opinion. many, i'm sure feel differently.

bboy87 said:

Michael's worst album by far is Invincible (although if we wanna count Jackson 5/Jacksons albums, it's definitely Skywriter)

see, i actually like skywriter... it was their tricky period. 'ooh i'd love to be with you' and 'corner of the sky' are great!

and invincible is one of my top four favourites of michael, so... my favourite J5 album is 'third album' though.

SoulAlive said:

I really didn't wanna go there I like Michael Jackson and Madonna.I'm not really arguing about who is more talented,I'm talking about growing and evolving as an artist.As amazing as Michael Jackson was,he never really evolved as an artist.After 'Thriller',there were some great tunes here and there,but he never took it another level.Love her or hate her,you can't deny that Madonna evolved,took chances and tried new sounds throughout her career.why do you think the term "reinvention" is always used when folks speak about her?

Madonna more though, right?

[Edited 2/3/11 21:54pm]

badujunkie said:

No denying MJ's influence on Madonna. She clearly LOVED him.

Even on BET 106 & Park when he was still with us...and it wasn't fashionable to still love him..."Nothing's better than OLD SCHOOL Michael Jackson!"

The first album was very MJ inspired, IMO.

Her "Billie Jean" interlude on The Virgin Tour...

The crotch grabbing in "Express Yourself" and on the Blond Ambition show...

Hiring his manager back in the early 80s...

I think it's almost unfair to compare them. She is a generation, maybe two after him...not in terms of age but in terms of when they debuted as performers. People say Elvis, Marilyn, Chrissie Hynde, David Bowie, Tina Turner, Debbie Harry all influenced Madonna...without a doubt, all of them did, but I think her biggest influence is MJ.

However she did surpass him in terms of quantity and sheer output. And her records are so different from one another whereas Mike - yes, Off the Wall sounds different than HIStory, but he didn't exactly do an album of 30s showtunes and then 4 years later a mellow new jack swing album then another 4 years a trip-hop/trance-inspired record...i'd say overall she surpasses him in breadth of styles, versaility, business-savvy and thinking outside the box, musically and performance-wise, whereas he surpasses her in overall quality of output and originality.

That's where they equal. They've done stuff that NOBODY else could do or think of

The ideas they've come up when it comes to business (her deal with LiveNation and working with Maverick, Michael buying ATV Publishing, getting the highest royalty rate in music history), presentation on tours thinking out of the box when it comes to promotion and music videos......

Those two are equal those aspects

That's why their careers are blueprints for new and younger artists

SoulAlive said:

I just feel that he stayed with the same type of sound for too long: a hard,driving R&B dance sound.The uptempo songs on 'Invincible' are stale and formulaic and didn't take him into any new directions.It's basically the same sound we heard on 'HIStory' and 'Blood On The Dancefloor'.While he was doing these albums,Madonna was doing things like 'Evita','Ray Of Light'....blending acoustic rock and electronica on 'American Life',making a retro dance album aimed at the dancefloor ('Confessions') and then finally going back to an R&B sound on 'Hard Candy'.Michael was such an amazingly talented artist but I think he was struck in his comfort zone for too long.....afraid to take chances and try different beats and sounds.

I can't imagine how anyone could consider the holy trinity of Invincible: Unbreakable; Invincible, and Heartbreaker to sound anything like Blood on the Dancefloor or even belong to the same genres maybe besides the fact that both of them are r&b/dance-pop. Even You Rock My World sounds nothing like what was released on HIStory or BOTDF and it's totally vintage MJ. Either way, I like how you totally disregarded my earlier examples in an attempt to try and prove your point. =/

Though I just have one question for you. What do you mean by 'formulaic'? Most pop songs have a formula to them that has been utilized for quite some time now as it's nothing new. Can you please expand on what you meant by that?

[Edited 2/3/11 23:07pm]

SoulAlive said:

Unholyalliance said:

I, respectfully, disagree. I do agree that Madonna's Ray Of Light was one of her best albums and it was one of the most adventurous and has been credited to bringing house/electronica to the American pop music scene (as well as being my favorite album from her), but I don't find that MJ's post-Thriller work stagnant. While I do think that he kept to the similar themes in terms of dark/bordering emo subject matter such as paranoia, 'evil women', the eventual expansion to social commentary & etc. I think that he explored a lot in terms of blending genres and his songwriting improved dramatically from when he first started. Especially in his 90s work, it's some of his most diverse. You have the operatic pop of Childhood to the industrial rock of Morphine. Michael Jackson of the Thriller era was not capable of such songwriting as it was not evident in his work at that time.

While you and some others may not have been huge fans of it, doesn't mean that he stayed in one place artistically in the least bit.

I just feel that he stayed with the same type of sound for too long: a hard,driving R&B dance sound.The uptempo songs on 'Invincible' are stale and formulaic and didn't take him into any new directions.It's basically the same sound we heard on 'HIStory' and 'Blood On The Dancefloor'.While he was doing these albums,Madonna was doing things like 'Evita','Ray Of Light'....blending acoustic rock and electronica on 'American Life',making a retro dance album aimed at the dancefloor ('Confessions') and then finally going back to an R&B sound on 'Hard Candy'.Michael was such an amazingly talented artist but I think he was struck in his comfort zone for too long.....afraid to take chances and try different beats and sounds.

but variety doesn't instantly mean it's better. people like Stevie Wonder or EW&F always sticked to their home genre (Secret Life of Plants may be seen as the only exception... but we know how that ended...)

Moonbeam said:

MrSmoketoomuch said:

but it's still true

Stop passing your opinion off as fact.

but my opinion IS fact!!!

ahhh lighten up, I'm just fooling around

MJJstudent said:

SoulAlive said:

I just feel that he stayed with the same type of sound for too long: a hard,driving R&B dance sound.The uptempo songs on 'Invincible' are stale and formulaic and didn't take him into any new directions.It's basically the same sound we heard on 'HIStory' and 'Blood On The Dancefloor'.While he was doing these albums,Madonna was doing things like 'Evita','Ray Of Light'....blending acoustic rock and electronica on 'American Life',making a retro dance album aimed at the dancefloor ('Confessions') and then finally going back to an R&B sound on 'Hard Candy'.Michael was such an amazingly talented artist but I think he was struck in his comfort zone for too long.....afraid to take chances and try different beats and sounds.

for me though, it's about intent. michael to me, was about presenting light and healing. i don't receive that same intent and energy from madonna. this is why i feel michael is a better artist. i don't hear madonna speaking about the government and the state of our world in the same way. artistically she may cross boundaries (even though i feel michael did as well); madonna to me upheld the socio-political status quo. to me, she never challenged anyone revolutionarily in that way. to me, albums like HIStory are a call to action. madonna appropriated many cultures, but i never received the energy of light, even though she sang about it. all i see is darkness and devlish energy from madonna.

this is purely my opinion. many, i'm sure feel differently.

Madonna is a walking contradiction, but evil? Check out her Amercian Life video and listen carefully. In fact, watch her American Life video. Listen to the lyrics on that album too. And even though she's different from Michael and acts like a bitch sometimes, she's done a lot for society too in her own way and shown support to different charities as well.

alphastreet said:

MJJstudent said:

for me though, it's about intent. michael to me, was about presenting light and healing. i don't receive that same intent and energy from madonna. this is why i feel michael is a better artist. i don't hear madonna speaking about the government and the state of our world in the same way. artistically she may cross boundaries (even though i feel michael did as well); madonna to me upheld the socio-political status quo. to me, she never challenged anyone revolutionarily in that way. to me, albums like HIStory are a call to action. madonna appropriated many cultures, but i never received the energy of light, even though she sang about it. all i see is darkness and devlish energy from madonna.

this is purely my opinion. many, i'm sure feel differently.

Madonna is a walking contradiction, but evil? Check out her Amercian Life video and listen carefully. In fact, watch her American Life video. Listen to the lyrics on that album too. And even though she's different from Michael and acts like a bitch sometimes, she's done a lot for society too in her own way and shown support to different charities as well.

And check out the holistic lyrics on the Erotica and Ray of Light albums....yes that's right, I wrote Erotica.

Japha11 said:

I really don't get this. Are we seriously comparing Michael Jackson and Madonna?

All of Michael's albums from OTW to Invincible are at least very good albums. Invincible is a good album.

I don't take Madonna seriously as an artist. "She's done this style, this and this blah blah" She isn't someone who is born with music in her blood (only way I can describe it). She isn't.. REAL!

You see Michael, Prince, Stevie, Marvin. Even Justin Timberlake, Usher, Beyonce. These people are so into music, I just see Madonna as someone I can't take seriously as an artist and musician.. NAAAHH Not very talented. Come on. She's a business woman.

And don't start comparing their vocals and saying 'depends how you receive vocals'. Whut da fuck?! Huh!?! stfu

The thing about Madonna that gets to me is.. OK she might write or co-write stuff, but i see her sat there ticking off lists of hot producers, "Well there's this Orbit/Mirwais guy, he's really hot in dance clubs, Timbaland too in Hip Hop, i must have these guys". makes phonecall, " Hello Timbaland, Madonnna here, Yeah the real Madonna, I've got this song i wrote, you're so awesome. This really could be mutually beneficial. Wanna put some beats to it? yeah? cool."

"OK see you tomorrow"

I never got the impression Mike really did that, it's not like Q was a 'hot' pop music producer. Even in latter years, this Dr Freeze character, never really heard of him = not hot. No Neptunes, No Timbaland. Michaels' finished work is more his own audio 'vision' i feel.

bboy87 said:

badujunkie said:

No denying MJ's influence on Madonna. She clearly LOVED him.

Even on BET 106 & Park when he was still with us...and it wasn't fashionable to still love him..."Nothing's better than OLD SCHOOL Michael Jackson!"

The first album was very MJ inspired, IMO.

Her "Billie Jean" interlude on The Virgin Tour...

The crotch grabbing in "Express Yourself" and on the Blond Ambition show...

Hiring his manager back in the early 80s...

I think it's almost unfair to compare them. She is a generation, maybe two after him...not in terms of age but in terms of when they debuted as performers. People say Elvis, Marilyn, Chrissie Hynde, David Bowie, Tina Turner, Debbie Harry all influenced Madonna...without a doubt, all of them did, but I think her biggest influence is MJ.

However she did surpass him in terms of quantity and sheer output. And her records are so different from one another whereas Mike - yes, Off the Wall sounds different than HIStory, but he didn't exactly do an album of 30s showtunes and then 4 years later a mellow new jack swing album then another 4 years a trip-hop/trance-inspired record...i'd say overall she surpasses him in breadth of styles, versaility, business-savvy and thinking outside the box, musically and performance-wise, whereas he surpasses her in overall quality of output and originality.

That's where they equal. They've done stuff that NOBODY else could do or think of

The ideas they've come up when it comes to business (her deal with LiveNation and working with Maverick, Michael buying ATV Publishing, getting the highest royalty rate in music history), presentation on tours thinking out of the box when it comes to promotion and music videos......

Those two are equal those aspects

That's why their careers are blueprints for new and younger artists

That's where I disagree. YES he had some AMAZING business strategies, up until about 1989...the Beatles catalog...the 'weirdness' card...planting stories in the press...but he didn't realize the monster he was creating. Mike ended up being his own worst PR enemy. All that sleeping in an oxygen chamber/Bubbles/surgery shit ended up setting the stage for more and more folks to BELIEVE the molestation charges. And despise him, personally.

Madonna, on the other hand, always remained her own biggest supporter, champion, and though her narcissism ended up backfiring for awhile, she never went into the territory that would allow some kind of allegation or flimsy accusation be SO damaging, for the rest of her career. As well as he's done since his untimely death, business-wise, there is still a faction of the public that believes MJ was a pedophile, a child molestor, a predator...he would be even MORE beloved, be selling even more records TODAY, had those allegations held less weight with the average, simpleton idiots who believed that bleaching his skin and touching kids were probably one in the same.

[Edited 2/4/11 16:08pm]

badujunkie said:

bboy87 said:

That's where they equal. They've done stuff that NOBODY else could do or think of

The ideas they've come up when it comes to business (her deal with LiveNation and working with Maverick, Michael buying ATV Publishing, getting the highest royalty rate in music history), presentation on tours thinking out of the box when it comes to promotion and music videos......

Those two are equal those aspects

That's why their careers are blueprints for new and younger artists

That's where I disagree. YES he had some AMAZING business strategies, up until about 1989...the Beatles catalog...the 'weirdness' card...planting stories in the press...but he didn't realize the monster he was creating. Mike ended up being his own worst PR enemy. All that sleeping in an oxygen chamber/Bubbles/surgery shit ended up setting the stage for more and more folks to BELIEVE the molestation charges. And despise him, personally.

Madonna, on the other hand, always remained her own biggest supporter, champion, and though her narcissism ended up backfiring for awhile, she never went into the territory that would allow some kind of allegation or flimsy accusation be SO damaging, for the rest of her career. As well as he's done since his untimely death, business-wise, there is still a faction of the public that believes MJ was a pedophile, a child molestor, a predator...he would be even MORE beloved, be selling even more records TODAY, had those allegations held less weight with the average, simpleton idiots who believed that bleaching his skin and touching kids were probably one in the same.

[Edited 2/4/11 16:08pm]

Ahh I see where you're coming from. But I still think they equal on the sheer BALLS they had with certain matters, not just business, but in presentation in videos and touring.

Like, MTV banned "Justify My Love" so Madonna released it as a video single and Michael premiering a music video on prime time television on 3 seperate networks simultaneously.....

and touring...

[img:$uid]http://cdn.thefrisky.com/images/uploads/madonna-stage-71709-splash.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4336028211_5f4881666c_z.jpg[/img:$uid]

who thinks of stuff like this?

Michael and Madonna