NDRU said:

TonyVanDam said:

CORRECTION: It was Nikki Sixx, NOT Vince Neil.

Was it? Maybe I just assumed it was the singer because it was a guy on the mic. Well, there is still plenty to hate Vince Neil for! His voice for starters.

Nah it was Nikki.

NDRU said:

TonyVanDam said:

CORRECTION: It was Nikki Sixx, NOT Vince Neil.

Was it? Maybe I just assumed it was the singer because it was a guy on the mic. Well, there is still plenty to hate Vince Neil for! His voice for starters.

you're right I just watched. And let's just assume for argument's sake the security guard was beating up a defenseless woman as alleged.

STILL, the crowd could have killed that man!! They were all cheering the racist comments, and if you read the youtube comments, they are all racist, too.

That is why I have never liked motley crue, aside from their terrible music. They are a bunch of trashy morons. The utter dregs of society.

[Edited 12/28/10 10:28am]

jiorjios said:

George Michael forgetting he is a pop star and going mature and all on us post-80s

Mariah Carey going from a person in her twenties acting like she is in her fourties to a person in her forties acting as if she was in her twenties

Sugababes disposing Kesha

Rod Steward releasing too many covers

So, it wasn't okay for George Michael to be mature due to being a pop star. However, you slam Mariah for not being mature, and she's younger than George. Double standards galore

raffi said:

jiorjios said:

George Michael forgetting he is a pop star and going mature and all on us post-80s

Mariah Carey going from a person in her twenties acting like she is in her fourties to a person in her forties acting as if she was in her twenties

Sugababes disposing Kesha

Rod Steward releasing too many covers

So, it wasn't okay for George Michael to be mature due to being a pop star. However, you slam Mariah for not being mature, and she's younger than George. Double standards galore

good point, but they did go in extreme opposite directions.

GM became boring (which Mariah never was) and Mariah became less mature (less mature than GM ever was) as she got older.

NDRU said:

raffi said:

So, it wasn't okay for George Michael to be mature due to being a pop star. However, you slam Mariah for not being mature, and she's younger than George. Double standards galore

good point, but they did go in extreme opposite directions.

GM became boring (which Mariah never was) and Mariah became less mature (less mature than GM ever was) as she got older.

The fact of the matter is, it was Mariah's immaturity that got old and bored me, to tears. As talented a singer as George was, if anybody expected him not to grow out of that "pop star" status, and into a more mature status, then they are highly disillusioned

About Mariah, I guess it's clear she's an artist who did a reversal.

With George, it was more about critics slamming him and Andrew Ridgeley for being "teenybopperish". I can't say he turned me off when he went "serious".

As for Mariah, whatever lol

[Edited 12/28/10 14:28pm]

shorttrini said:

NDRU said:

good point, but they did go in extreme opposite directions.

GM became boring (which Mariah never was) and Mariah became less mature (less mature than GM ever was) as she got older.

The fact of the matter is, it was Mariah's immaturity that got old and bored me, to tears. As talented a singer as George was, if anybody expected him not to grow out of that "pop star" status, and into a more mature status, then they are highly disillusioned

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

NDRU said:

shorttrini said:

The fact of the matter is, it was Mariah's immaturity that got old and bored me, to tears. As talented a singer as George was, if anybody expected him not to grow out of that "pop star" status, and into a more mature status, then they are highly disillusioned

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

I guess I have issues with Mariah in general. Starting with the fact that she once said that she was confused about who she was growing up, instead of learning more about her heritage and embracing it. Then again, maybe I am the one that is different. I am a person of mixed raced, I not only embraced the fact that I was mixed, but I encouraged any questions about my background. My parents taught me to be proud of who I was, and still do to this day.

shorttrini said:

NDRU said:

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

I guess I have issues with Mariah in general. Starting with the fact that she once said that she was confused about who she was growing up, instead of learning more about her heritage and embracing it. Then again, maybe I am the one that is different. I am a person of mixed raced, I not only embraced the fact that I was mixed, but I encouraged any questions about my background. My parents taught me to be proud of who I was, and still do to this day.

I can see that, even though it is not an issue for me. I never thought about Mariah's race until she was referred to as a "misunderstood black woman" recently on a magazine cover, and I was like really? I guess I thought she was white.

My issue with her was that after the first record she said that once she had more control over her career that the music would be more real, more musical, real instruments, etc. But they made her first album way too commercial for her tastes.

And then she went the exact opposite direction

Boy George badmouthing other artists constantly and handcuffing an escort to a wall and beating him with a chain.

I used to be the biggest CC fan back in the 80's but now I can't stand the sight of him.

shorttrini said:

NDRU said:

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

I guess I have issues with Mariah in general. Starting with the fact that she once said that she was confused about who she was growing up, instead of learning more about her heritage and embracing it. Then again, maybe I am the one that is different. I am a person of mixed raced, I not only embraced the fact that I was mixed, but I encouraged any questions about my background. My parents taught me to be proud of who I was, and still do to this day.

In Mariah's defense, she didn't grow with her two parents who could've instilled knowledge and understanding of her background, hence why she was conflicted. Add to that, she lived in Long Island with her mother, which I don't have to describe to you the racial climate it took place in there during the 70s and how it reared its ugly head in the 80s.

I think you had the advantage of your parents steering you in the right direction, I don't think she did.

NDRU said:

shorttrini said:

I guess I have issues with Mariah in general. Starting with the fact that she once said that she was confused about who she was growing up, instead of learning more about her heritage and embracing it. Then again, maybe I am the one that is different. I am a person of mixed raced, I not only embraced the fact that I was mixed, but I encouraged any questions about my background. My parents taught me to be proud of who I was, and still do to this day.

I can see that, even though it is not an issue for me. I never thought about Mariah's race until she was referred to as a "misunderstood black woman" recently on a magazine cover, and I was like really? I guess I thought she was white.

If you ever been to New Orleans you'll experience a lot of those thoughts then I get your point though.

NDRU said:

shorttrini said:

The fact of the matter is, it was Mariah's immaturity that got old and bored me, to tears. As talented a singer as George was, if anybody expected him not to grow out of that "pop star" status, and into a more mature status, then they are highly disillusioned

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

Wait so you have far more respect for someone hooking up with random old men in parks. And, crashing up cars while high??? That's respectable and Mariah's a joke?? Again double standards. .

raffi said:

NDRU said:

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

Wait so you have far more respect for someone hooking up with random old men in parks. And, crashing up cars while high??? That's respectable and Mariah's a joke?? Again double standards. .

I respect him more artistically, not personally.

[Edited 12/28/10 14:32pm]

raffi said:

NDRU said:

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

Wait so you have far more respect for someone hooking up with random old men in parks. And, crashing up cars while high??? That's respectable and Mariah's a joke?? Again double standards. .

who did that

shorttrini said:

NDRU said:

I agree, and I have far more respect for GM. I do think that it's unfortunate that he seems to have abandoned the infectious hooks that made his music special in the first place in favor of an obsession to be taken seriously.

But Mariah? She is hardly worth discussion. She became a complete joke.

Still my point is just that they are both vulnerable to criticism, even if it's for the opposite reasons. They didn't start the same, and they didn't end the same, and they shouldn't be treated exactly the same.

I guess I have issues with Mariah in general. Starting with the fact that she once said that she was confused about who she was growing up, instead of learning more about her heritage and embracing it. Then again, maybe I am the one that is different. I am a person of mixed raced, I not only embraced the fact that I was mixed, but I encouraged any questions about my background. My parents taught me to be proud of who I was, and still do to this day.

How is that fair. You judge her for being confused when you had supportive parents. She said her Mom told her to just tell the kids at school she was Italian. She said her father's mom was vocal about Mariah probably not being his (due to her lighter complexion). Did any of that happen to you?

Glindathegood said:

Boy George badmouthing other artists constantly and handcuffing an escort to a wall and beating him with a chain.

I used to be the biggest CC fan back in the 80's but now I can't stand the sight of him.

I kinda feel the same way about Elton John.I'm a huge fan of his 70s music but in recent years,he has become an old,bitchy,angry,bloated drama queen,always complaining and badmouthing other artists I hate to see my favorite artists become so bitter and whiny.

NDRU said:

raffi said:

Wait so you have far more respect for someone hooking up with random old men in parks. And, crashing up cars while high??? That's respectable and Mariah's a joke?? Again double standards. .

I respect him more artistically, not personally.

[Edited 12/28/10 14:32pm]

Whatever he does in his personal life is his business. Still love George.

TotalAlisa said:

raffi said:

Wait so you have far more respect for someone hooking up with random old men in parks. And, crashing up cars while high??? That's respectable and Mariah's a joke?? Again double standards. .

who did that

George Michael

NDRU said:

raffi said:

Wait so you have far more respect for someone hooking up with random old men in parks. And, crashing up cars while high??? That's respectable and Mariah's a joke?? Again double standards. .

I respect him more artistically, not personally.

[Edited 12/28/10 14:32pm]

He can do whatever he wants. There's nobody expecting him to sell millions. Mariah sold 1.5 mill domestically with E=MC, and it was hailed as a flop. Rhianna sells that and everyone applauds it. She came in as a "commercial artist." And, that's really what she has remained. Where was this deep Kate Bushesque Mariah you guys are yearning for? She never existed.

raffi said:

NDRU said:

I respect him more artistically, not personally.

[Edited 12/28/10 14:32pm]

He can do whatever he wants. There's nobody expecting him to sell millions. Mariah sold 1.5 mill domestically with E=MC, and it was hailed as a flop. Rhianna sells that and everyone applauds it. She came in as a "commercial artist." And, that's really what she has remained. Where was this deep Kate Bushesque Mariah you guys are yearning for? She never existed.

I'm sure they did in 1987! But he defied the expectations and did what he thought was right. Mariah did the opposite of what she said she wanted to do and caved in to the $

I think GM became boring, but he did what he wanted to do and I respect that

[Edited 12/28/10 15:10pm]

Unless they're a child molester or a serial killer I just care about what art they put out. Actually, I even like a Charles Manson song so the art lives on..lol

Harlepolis said:

shorttrini said:

I guess I have issues with Mariah in general. Starting with the fact that she once said that she was confused about who she was growing up, instead of learning more about her heritage and embracing it. Then again, maybe I am the one that is different. I am a person of mixed raced, I not only embraced the fact that I was mixed, but I encouraged any questions about my background. My parents taught me to be proud of who I was, and still do to this day.

In Mariah's defense, she didn't grow with her two parents who could've instilled knowledge and understanding of her background, hence why she was conflicted. Add to that, she lived in Long Island with her mother, which I don't have to describe to you the racial climate it took place in there during the 70s and how it reared its ugly head in the 80s.

I think you had the advantage of your parents steering you in the right direction, I don't think she did.

It was mainly my mom's doing, because my dad was always working so hard, the only time we got to see him, was in the morning before school and on weekends. My mom would tell us all about our culture. She would tell us stories about her father, who was Chinese, her mom who was spanish and how they came to Trinidad to make a life for themselves and their 5 kids. My dad, (when he was home), would talk about his parents and their lives in Trinidad. What they did not tell me, I found out on my own.

NDRU said:

raffi said:

He can do whatever he wants. There's nobody expecting him to sell millions. Mariah sold 1.5 mill domestically with E=MC, and it was hailed as a flop. Rhianna sells that and everyone applauds it. She came in as a "commercial artist." And, that's really what she has remained. Where was this deep Kate Bushesque Mariah you guys are yearning for? She never existed.

I'm sure they did in 1987! But he defied the expectations and did what he thought was right. Mariah did the opposite of what she said she wanted to do and caved in to the $

I think GM became boring, but he did what he wanted to do and I respect that

[Edited 12/28/10 15:10pm]

He defied expectations his debut album was a pop album? IT wasn't David Bowie's Low that's defying expectations, and reinventing the wheel. You're holding Mariah to comments she made when she was 19. That's insane. We've all said tons of stuff at 19 that we can't back up now. For that matter there's a ton of artists that have done that. And, Mariah has done that. There were numerous pop PD's that were very vocal about not liking Mariah's lean towards rap artists. She sacrificed that older AC audience she shared with Celine. And, it's showing in her sales now. However, she's still doing the same type of muisc. So, how is she caving to the $

shorttrini said:

Harlepolis said:

In Mariah's defense, she didn't grow with her two parents who could've instilled knowledge and understanding of her background, hence why she was conflicted. Add to that, she lived in Long Island with her mother, which I don't have to describe to you the racial climate it took place in there during the 70s and how it reared its ugly head in the 80s.

I think you had the advantage of your parents steering you in the right direction, I don't think she did.

It was mainly my mom's doing, because my dad was always working so hard, the only time we got to see him, was in the morning before school and on weekends. My mom would tell us all about our culture. She would tell us stories about her father, who was Chinese, her mom who was spanish and how they came to Trinidad to make a life for themselves and their 5 kids. My dad, (when he was home), would talk about his parents and their lives in Trinidad. What they did not tell me, I found out on my own.

Well, that's beautiful Mariah's mom didn't do that. Did you have people burning down your house, poisoning your dogs, burning crosses on your lawn, and blowing up your cars. Mariah did.

raffi said:

NDRU said:

I'm sure they did in 1987! But he defied the expectations and did what he thought was right. Mariah did the opposite of what she said she wanted to do and caved in to the $

I think GM became boring, but he did what he wanted to do and I respect that

[Edited 12/28/10 15:10pm]

He defied expectations his debut album was a pop album? IT wasn't David Bowie's Low that's defying expectations, and reinventing the wheel. You're holding Mariah to comments she made when she was 19. That's insane. We've all said tons of stuff at 19 that we can't back up now. For that matter there's a ton of artists that have done that. And, Mariah has done that. There were numerous pop PD's that were very vocal about not liking Mariah's lean towards rap artists. She sacrificed that older AC audience she shared with Celine. And, it's showing in her sales now. However, she's still doing the same type of muisc. So, how is she caving to the $

Hey it's just my opnion. If you like her good for you. I can't argue that she has not been successful. Lots of people like her just the way she is.

My point is not to compare them, though. My point is that it's not a double standard to accuse her of being immature AND to accuse george of being too mature. It's okay to feel that way. They're different and each needs to be held to their own standard.

[Edited 12/28/10 18:41pm]

raffi said:

shorttrini said:

It was mainly my mom's doing, because my dad was always working so hard, the only time we got to see him, was in the morning before school and on weekends. My mom would tell us all about our culture. She would tell us stories about her father, who was Chinese, her mom who was spanish and how they came to Trinidad to make a life for themselves and their 5 kids. My dad, (when he was home), would talk about his parents and their lives in Trinidad. What they did not tell me, I found out on my own.

Well, that's beautiful Mariah's mom didn't do that. Did you have people burning down your house, poisoning your dogs, burning crosses on your lawn, and blowing up your cars. Mariah did.

I didn't. I had an alcoholic father, who when drunk abused my mother. Everybody has their own cross to bear. It all depends on how you handle it.

shorttrini said:

raffi said:

Well, that's beautiful Mariah's mom didn't do that. Did you have people burning down your house, poisoning your dogs, burning crosses on your lawn, and blowing up your cars. Mariah did.

I didn't. I had an alcoholic father, who when drunk abused my mother. Everybody has their own cross to bear. It all depends on how you handle it.

You're right. She turned all that confusion, and need to belong into a really successful career.

raffi said:

shorttrini said:

It was mainly my mom's doing, because my dad was always working so hard, the only time we got to see him, was in the morning before school and on weekends. My mom would tell us all about our culture. She would tell us stories about her father, who was Chinese, her mom who was spanish and how they came to Trinidad to make a life for themselves and their 5 kids. My dad, (when he was home), would talk about his parents and their lives in Trinidad. What they did not tell me, I found out on my own.

Well, that's beautiful Mariah's mom didn't do that. Did you have people burning down your house, poisoning your dogs, burning crosses on your lawn, and blowing up your cars. Mariah did.

are you mariah carey?????

TotalAlisa said:

raffi said:

Well, that's beautiful Mariah's mom didn't do that. Did you have people burning down your house, poisoning your dogs, burning crosses on your lawn, and blowing up your cars. Mariah did.

are you mariah carey?????

Are you retarded????