Info about 2 Janet songs...

There's early talk in a Variety article that "Nothing" could be a good contender for an Oscar nod

A new article celebrating the 40th anniversary of radio staple America's top 40 revealed that "That's the Way Love Goes," which spent 8 weeks at #1, was #1 longer than any other song by Janet and longer than any song by Michael or the Jackson 5.

thesexofit said:

Again my mistake. I knew Jam/Lewis produced all 3 songs, but for some reason i thought Janet wrote "again" by herself, meaning she was deliberately copying her producers/co-songwriters. Quite why I thought that indicates to me how often I listen to "Janet." (i.e very rarely). Honestly, I knew the Jam/Lewis connection LOL.

Most, if not all popular producers/songwriters who work alot in a relatively small time frame are bound have some samey work in their catalogue, so I see your point.

I gotcha.

I don't really buy the "deliberately" trying to copy someone thing though. If anything, the girl is always tryin' to change things up. As far as the janet. album, I think the only solo writing credit was "Whoops Now", which was a hidden track.

Still a favorite JJ album for me, too.

When Janet writes, it's usually lyrics. Most of the Jam & Lewis material (or better yet all of it) was composed by just Jam and Lewis.

trueiopian said:

VinnyM27 said:

I'm really interested in knowing what the Essence setlist was?

1. The Pleasure Principle
2. Control
3. What Have You Done For Me Lately
4. Feedback
5. You Want This
6. Alright
7. Miss You Much
8. Nothing
9. Come Back To Me
10. Let's Wait Awhile
11. Again
12. Doesn't Really Matter
13. Escapade
14. Love Will Never Do (Without You)
15. When I Think Of You
16. All For You
17. Got 'Til It's Gone
18. Call On Me
19. That's The Way Love Goes
20. I Get Lonely
21. Funny How Time Flies (When You're Having Fun)
22. Any Time, Any Place
23. Discipline
24. Black Cat
25. If
26. Nasty
27. Rhythm Nation
28. Young Love
29. Say You Do
30. Make Me
31. Together Again

Meh. I wish she would change up the setlist. Half of it is all 80's songs. Remix your shit, Janet! Make it exciting.

Timmy84 said:

When Janet writes, it's usually lyrics. Most of the Jam & Lewis material (or better yet all of it) was composed by just Jam and Lewis.

Janet composed with Jam & Lewis too.

Jam says Lewis is the writer of the two. So usually when Janet is having writers block he's the one to help her. But they all work together. I remember reading an article on the making of RN1814 and Jam says that they all work so fast together. Everything comes naturally when they get together.

midiscover said:

Timmy84 said:

When Janet writes, it's usually lyrics. Most of the Jam & Lewis material (or better yet all of it) was composed by just Jam and Lewis.

Janet composed with Jam & Lewis too.

Jam says Lewis is the writer of the two. So usually when Janet is having writers block he's the one to help her. But they all work together. I remember reading an article on the making of RN1814 and Jam says that they all work so fast together. Everything comes naturally when they get together.

they paid those guys a LOT of money back them to say things like that and get her name in the songwriting credits. and it usually comes last, so that's a pretty good indicator how much she actually contributed.

you'll notice that over the years, as she has drifted away from working with jam & lewis, and also as the pay-out labels are willing to spend on her projects, that she barely gets any writing credits.

^ Where's your proof? You don't have any. Janet did write/compose with Jam & Lewis. Idk why you find that hard to believe. and LMAO! at Jam & Lewis being paid to say that shit. BULLSHIT. Jam & Lewis are gladly collecting their royalties from their work with Janet. And the same article I'm talking about - Jam bluntly said both he and Lewis would write a song and present it to Janet and she would say "I don't like this, I don't like that" and would change it up to fit her style. The songs Jam & Lewis wrote they were the only ones credited for it (Look at the RN1814 album) so you failed with that logic. Also, her songs are usually credited as - 'Janet Jackson, James Haris III, Terry Lewis'. So her name wasn't always last. Besides where did you read that if her name was last that she didn't do much? LMAO! Jams name was always ahead of Terry's so I guess with your logic he didn't do much? AHA!

Its not like Janet just sits around while they do all the work. I find it lame that you always want to downplay her but I'm sure you assume Hagdonna wrote all the songs she's credited for solely.

FYI - Discipline is the only album she didn't write on at all (Post - Control ). LA Reid had the Discipline album already done for her.

errant said:

They paid those guys a LOT of money back then to say things like that and get her name in the songwriting credits. and it usually comes last, so that's a pretty good indicator how much she actually contributed.

You'll notice that over the years, as she has drifted away from working with jam & lewis, and also as the pay-out labels are willing to spend on her projects, that she barely gets any writing credits.

LOL That is utter nonsense.

midiscover said:

^ Where's your proof? You don't have any. Janet did write/compose with Jam & Lewis. Idk why you find that hard to believe. and LMAO! at Jam & Lewis being paid to say that shit. BULLSHIT. Jam & Lewis are gladly collecting their royalties from their work with Janet. And the same article I'm talking about - Jam bluntly said both he and Lewis would write a song and present it to Janet and she would say "I don't like this, I don't like that" and would change it up to fit her style. The songs Jam & Lewis wrote they were the only ones credited for it (Look at the RN1814 album) so you failed with that logic. Also, her songs are usually credited as - 'Janet Jackson, James Haris III, Terry Lewis'. So her name wasn't always last. Besides where did you read that if her name was last that she didn't do much? LMAO! Jams name was always ahead of Terry's so I guess with your logic he didn't do much? AHA!

Its not like Janet just sits around while they do all the work. I find it lame that you always want to downplay her but I'm sure you assume Hagdonna wrote all the songs she's credited for solely.

FYI - Discipline is the only album she didn't write on at all (Post - Control ). LA Reid had the Discipline album already done for her.

Why get so upset? The 3 of them sit probably in a studio, and Jam or Lewis will they will play a basic instrumental track for her, ask her about lyrics, , and they go from there....

...When producers also co-write their music, I think that simple way of working is pretty beneficial for all involved. And record company politics like Errant was mentioning are very real. Is it true what he said I don't know? But managment and record company men will fight over songwriting etc.... I.e "my client must at least co-write one song" etc...

thesexofit said:

midiscover said:

^ Where's your proof? You don't have any. Janet did write/compose with Jam & Lewis. Idk why you find that hard to believe. and LMAO! at Jam & Lewis being paid to say that shit. BULLSHIT. Jam & Lewis are gladly collecting their royalties from their work with Janet. And the same article I'm talking about - Jam bluntly said both he and Lewis would write a song and present it to Janet and she would say "I don't like this, I don't like that" and would change it up to fit her style. The songs Jam & Lewis wrote they were the only ones credited for it (Look at the RN1814 album) so you failed with that logic. Also, her songs are usually credited as - 'Janet Jackson, James Haris III, Terry Lewis'. So her name wasn't always last. Besides where did you read that if her name was last that she didn't do much? LMAO! Jams name was always ahead of Terry's so I guess with your logic he didn't do much? AHA!

Its not like Janet just sits around while they do all the work. I find it lame that you always want to downplay her but I'm sure you assume Hagdonna wrote all the songs she's credited for solely.

FYI - Discipline is the only album she didn't write on at all (Post - Control ). LA Reid had the Discipline album already done for her.

Why get so upset? The 3 of them sit probably in a studio, and Jam or Lewis will they will play a basic instrumental track for her, ask her about lyrics, , and they go from there....

...When producers also co-write their music, I think that simple way of working is pretty beneficial for all involved. And record company politics like Errant was mentioning are very real. Is it true what he said I don't know? But managment and record company men will fight over songwriting etc.... I.e "my client must at least co-write one song" etc...

I'm not. Its just a common thing with errant.

Well, that's how Control was made but on her next album she had more control and a better understanding of how the music business goes.

No, its not true unless he was in the recording studio along with Janet, Jam & Lewis. He's just going off assumptions. Besides Janet's Control album is one of those "my client..." type of albums, reason why she had songs offered to her and her songs were offered to other artists before she recorded them. But from RN1814 and etc. all her songs were specifically for her. Because she along with Jam & Lewis created them. I think Rihanna, Ciara, etc. are those type of artists that have songs written for them. Not Janet.

[Edited 7/6/10 19:52pm]

thesexofit said:

midiscover said:

^ Where's your proof? You don't have any. Janet did write/compose with Jam & Lewis. Idk why you find that hard to believe. and LMAO! at Jam & Lewis being paid to say that shit. BULLSHIT. Jam & Lewis are gladly collecting their royalties from their work with Janet. And the same article I'm talking about - Jam bluntly said both he and Lewis would write a song and present it to Janet and she would say "I don't like this, I don't like that" and would change it up to fit her style. The songs Jam & Lewis wrote they were the only ones credited for it (Look at the RN1814 album) so you failed with that logic. Also, her songs are usually credited as - 'Janet Jackson, James Haris III, Terry Lewis'. So her name wasn't always last. Besides where did you read that if her name was last that she didn't do much? LMAO! Jams name was always ahead of Terry's so I guess with your logic he didn't do much? AHA!

Its not like Janet just sits around while they do all the work. I find it lame that you always want to downplay her but I'm sure you assume Hagdonna wrote all the songs she's credited for solely.

FYI - Discipline is the only album she didn't write on at all (Post - Control ). LA Reid had the Discipline album already done for her.

Why get so upset? The 3 of them sit probably in a studio, and Jam or Lewis will they will play a basic instrumental track for her, ask her about lyrics, , and they go from there....

...When producers also co-write their music, I think that simple way of working is pretty beneficial for all involved. And record company politics like Errant was mentioning are very real. Is it true what he said I don't know? But managment and record company men will fight over songwriting etc.... I.e "my client must at least co-write one song" etc...

She's listed as a writer on Control and that album was pretty much done before she even stepped in the studio and for her contribution, Jam and/or Lewis themselves said they just interviewed her about what she wanted to sing about and turned that into lyrics themselves.

You'll notice she doesn't get songwriting credit on the tracks that anyone else besides Jam & Lewis wrote. And Janet herself said, around the time of TVR, that Rene started getting songwriting credits because he had already been doing it for years anyway.

*edit-before-ernest's-ocd-makes-him-start-his-next-post-with-"contibution"

[Edited 7/6/10 19:55pm]

thesexofit said:

The 3 of them sit probably in a studio, and Jam or Lewis will they will play a basic instrumental track for her, ask her about lyrics, , and they go from there....

...When producers also co-write their music, I think that simple way of working is pretty beneficial for all involved. And record company politics like Errant was mentioning are very real. Is it true what he said I don't know? But managment and record company men will fight over songwriting etc.... I.e "my client must at least co-write one song" etc...

Bingo. It's how any good producer works. There's an age old story about Janet showing up at the Flyte Tyme studios in Edina, MN, and hanging out for a few days. Jam and Lewis had gotten her talking about her life and whatever over time. At one point, Janet said, "So when are we going to write some songs?" Jam pointed out that they were. They wanted to get a feeling of what Janet wanted to say, and put that on the record. Janet had never been approached that way, and she was surprised at that method of speaking her mind (let's not forget who her father is). I think that was the seedling that started Janet putting her thoughts on record more and more over the years.

I believe the ordering of names on a song is relative as to who wrote the music and who wrote the lyrics, etc. When artists just share all around credit like that though, the profits are already set to be split fairly between everyone. Basic business stuff there. Janet did write songs on her own, which oddly were, the majority of the time, produced by Jellybean Johnson. And they are usually her rock n' roll songs, like "Black Cat" (which Jellybean, Mr. Drummer extraordinaire played a wicked solo on).

I think over time, Janet gained the clout to truly put on record whatever she wanted, whether it was well received enough or not. Control was much more of a Jam/Lewis record (and Monte Moir), but once she started to get into 1814, janet., and especially Velvet Rope, the girl really started pulling out her diairies and thoughts. We all know the stories of how hard it was to get through TVR and get it done, because she was purging so much negative shit in her life. I think that "my client" bullshit is moot at this point. Hell, as noted with Discipline, she took a step back and let folks just write stuff for her. Not everyone would do that, especially after putting out nine or ten albums with full on input to that point.

errant said:

thesexofit said:

Why get so upset? The 3 of them sit probably in a studio, and Jam or Lewis will they will play a basic instrumental track for her, ask her about lyrics, , and they go from there....

...When producers also co-write their music, I think that simple way of working is pretty beneficial for all involved. And record company politics like Errant was mentioning are very real. Is it true what he said I don't know? But managment and record company men will fight over songwriting etc.... I.e "my client must at least co-write one song" etc...

She's listed as a writer on Control and that album was pretty much done before she even stepped in the studio and for her contribution, Jam and/or Lewis themselves said they just interviewed her about what she wanted to sing about and turned that into lyrics themselves.

You'll notice she doesn't get songwriting credit on the tracks that anyone else besides Jam & Lewis wrote. And Janet herself said, around the time of TVR, that Rene started getting songwriting credits because he had already been doing it for years anyway.

*edit-before-ernest's-ocd-makes-him-start-his-next-post-with-"contibution"

[Edited 7/6/10 19:55pm]

I heard about the Rene thing. Did he write "Black cat" with her and he sued after they seperated? Rene should of just asked for songwriting credits at the time LOL unless Janet or whomever refused him point blank? Sounds messy.

@ errant

Is that supposed to be some sort of revelation? Just about EVERY one that is aware of the Control album knows that she didn't write anything from scratch. They basically interviewed her on her life and yada yada. Like I said, the whole album (production wise) wasn't even intended for her. That's her ONLY album where songs were offered to her and her songs were offered to others before she recorded them. That still is no proof that she doesn't participate in the writing process. And Flopne started getting writing credit because he insisted on getting it. But the gag is his ass doesn't receive jack for it. CDFU! Janet played his ass.

thesexofit said:

errant said:

She's listed as a writer on Control and that album was pretty much done before she even stepped in the studio and for her contribution, Jam and/or Lewis themselves said they just interviewed her about what she wanted to sing about and turned that into lyrics themselves.

You'll notice she doesn't get songwriting credit on the tracks that anyone else besides Jam & Lewis wrote. And Janet herself said, around the time of TVR, that Rene started getting songwriting credits because he had already been doing it for years anyway.

*edit-before-ernest's-ocd-makes-him-start-his-next-post-with-"contibution"

[Edited 7/6/10 19:55pm]

I heard about the Rene thing. Did he write "Black cat" with her and he sued after they seperated? Rene should of just asked for songwriting credits at the time LOL unless Janet or whomever refused him point blank? Sounds messy.

The Rene situation is fishy. Why wouldn't he wanted credit at first? I don't get that part.

midiscover said:

@ errant

Is that supposed to be some sort of revelation? Just about EVERY one that is aware of the Control album knows that she didn't write anything from scratch. They basically interviewed her on her life and yada yada. Like I said, the whole album (production wise) wasn't even intended for her. That's her ONLY album where songs were offered to her and her songs were offered to others before she recorded them. That still is no proof that she doesn't participate in the writing process. And Flopne started getting writing credit because he insisted on getting it. But the gag is his ass doesn't receive jack for it. CDFU! Janet played his ass.

Yeah that's what I think too. If he was so sure he was gonna get credit for "37 songs", then he should've made sure that happened before he said he "didn't want credit". Janet did him a favor for the "Velvet Rope" album and then he tried to turn it all around. He ain't nothing but a bastard. If he was such a genius he wouldn't be somewhere looking like an old crackhead like that last photo I saw of him. Plus "Control" was the only album where it turned into a Janet bio of sorts so whatever ideas she had, or what was in her diaries, or what she discussed with Jam and Lewis, in many ways she was in the writing process then, it was just improvisation with Control. Janet had ideas too and she shared them with her collaborators. It was teamwork. And it worked brilliantly.

thesexofit said:

I heard about the Rene thing. Did he write "Black cat" with her and he sued after they seperated? Rene should of just asked for songwriting credits at the time LOL unless Janet or whomever refused him point blank? Sounds messy.

No, he didn't. Janet did and Jellybean produced it with her. Rene sued her because he claimed that she owed him money for writing and other shit he helped her with. He did ask her for songwriting "credit". She finally gave it to him in the The Velvet Rope era. But he is full shit. Straight up. Jam even said he wasn't in the studio when most of the songs were being recorded and created and when he was he was only giving ideas that they didn't even use. Poor Flopne just wanted Janet's money to pay for his drug addiction.

[Edited 7/6/10 20:12pm]

errant said:

thesexofit said:

Why get so upset? The 3 of them sit probably in a studio, and Jam or Lewis will they will play a basic instrumental track for her, ask her about lyrics, , and they go from there....

...When producers also co-write their music, I think that simple way of working is pretty beneficial for all involved. And record company politics like Errant was mentioning are very real. Is it true what he said I don't know? But managment and record company men will fight over songwriting etc.... I.e "my client must at least co-write one song" etc...

She's listed as a writer on Control and that album was pretty much done before she even stepped in the studio and for her contribution, Jam and/or Lewis themselves said they just interviewed her about what she wanted to sing about and turned that into lyrics themselves.

You'll notice she doesn't get songwriting credit on the tracks that anyone else besides Jam & Lewis wrote. And Janet herself said, around the time of TVR, that Rene started getting songwriting credits because he had already been doing it for years anyway.

*edit-before-ernest's-ocd-makes-him-start-his-next-post-with-"contibution"

[Edited 7/6/10 19:55pm]

What you are saying is true. I'm not really sure how much actual "song writing" she has done. But is is very common in the industry to credit the artist eventhough that artist contributed minimally if at all even.

midiscover said:

thesexofit said:

I heard about the Rene thing. Did he write "Black cat" with her and he sued after they seperated? Rene should of just asked for songwriting credits at the time LOL unless Janet or whomever refused him point blank? Sounds messy.

No, he didn't. Janet did and Jellybean produced it with her. Rene sued her because he claimed that she owed him money for writing and other shit he helped her with. He did ask her for songwriting "credit". She finally gave it to him in the The Velvet Rope era. But he is full shit. Straight up. Jam even said he wasn't in the studio when most of the songs were being recorded and created and when he was he was only giving ideas that they didn't even use. Poor Flopne just wanted Janet's money to pay for his drug addiction.

[Edited 7/6/10 20:12pm]

And that's why Rene didn't win his battle in court because he couldn't produce any proof that he wrote the lyrics himself. It seems as if he took Janet's offer and made it think he was the one who controlled the ship. I don't believe he was the special sauce as some folks here claim he was. It was always just Janet, Jam & Lewis.

every once in awhile, I have to remind myself why I stopped dealing with Janet Jackson fans online 12 years ago. thank you for your help, guys

You say that every time you're proved wrong

midiscover said:

You say that every time you're proved wrong

I think it's adorable that you think you've proven anything

Don't ever change!

[Edited 7/6/10 20:32pm]

errant said:

midiscover said:

You say that every time you're proved wrong

I think it's adorable that you think you've proven anything

[Edited 7/6/10 20:32pm]

The irony!

[img:$uid]http://i50.tinypic.com/10xd7oy.jpg[/img:$uid]

Janet says - sniff my ass, hating bitches!

midiscover said:

You say that every time you're proved wrong

midiscover said:

errant said:

I think it's adorable that you think you've proven anything

[Edited 7/6/10 20:32pm]

The irony!

I'm not saying I've proven anything. But I was reading and watching interviews as her career was at its peak, and then unravelling, long before you even had pubes. As I've gotten older, I've been able to read between the lines of the PR machine and see that the proof is in the pudding.

That's all

trueiopian said:

[img:$uid]http://i50.tinypic.com/10xd7oy.jpg[/img:$uid]

Janet says - sniff my ass, hating bitches!

Lord the guy look like he was gonna eat it much less sniff it.

errant said:

midiscover said:

The irony!

I'm not saying I've proven anything. But I was reading and watching interviews as her career was at its peak, and then unravelling, long before you even had pubes. As I've gotten older, I've been able to read between the lines of the PR machine and see that the proof is in the pudding.

That's all

What proof? Do you even know what you're talking about? Why are you contradicting yourself?

trueiopian said:

[img:$uid]http://i50.tinypic.com/10xd7oy.jpg[/img:$uid]

Janet says - sniff my ass, hating bitches!

errant said:

midiscover said:

The irony!

I'm not saying I've proven anything. But I was reading and watching interviews as her career was at its peak, and then unravelling, long before you even had pubes. As I've gotten older, I've been able to read between the lines of the PR machine and see that the proof is in the pudding.

That's all

pick who you wanna believe, according to rene he AND janet co-wrote 37 songs together, according to jimmy jam rene never wrote any songs with he,janet and terry...both sides say janet wrote the songs with them so that means jimmy,terry and rene are lying? on each album janet gained more confidence and learned how to craft a song, how could she not learn anything working exclusively with jam and lewis? janet has been writing songs since she was a lil kid,im sure having mj as a brother she didnt learn nothing. the shade in these threads are ridiculous,when did her career unravel? she still has a career