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Which is what im saying, when Prince plays shows, he dont get that cash from the tickets, just like Jovi wouldnt or anyone else, if you have a sponsor they pay you day one, the only thing the artist can collect on is merchandising and this also depends on what is involved in merchandising of that particular artist. When you sell your shit at a show, you also pay a% to the venue to stock the stuff on their property, so when Prince charges $40 for a shirt, everyone else comes in and takes their cut just like any other business would for any other artist. Prince may be "solo" as an artist and not signed, but that doesnt mean he is raking in 100% of everything he does, its not even close, because he has higher bills to pay (or not pay). Bon Jovi though signed to a label also owns stock in that label and handles a good % of its own merchandising through Jon's parent company and corporation, i mean its easy to dimiss him as shit, but the dude knows how to do business, while still maintaining being signed to a label. PRINCE does business on his own, which is good, because he couldnt work with a label and get it properly set up. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Alway something interesting to read in one of your posts. I think that Prince developed (projecting feelings on this one, just a bit) a fan base and product line that was far broader and more diverse back in the day. Bon Jovi has been able to continue to blossom in broader terms from the 80s forward, to include the movie roles that once heralded Prince's Rule. This thread could have stayed on the spool.
The real question - hmmmnnn??? - which ass held up best through the years? (Leave the gloves on, people. [Hee, hee, what kind of gloves?]) I want to see Bon Giovi in them assless pants Prince sported for a while there.
And Ernest, did you see the clip recently posted of Rue and Betty sitting on a couch telling slightly dirty jokes as they waited for the set-up to happen for an old Golden Girls episode? As if those chicks could be more endearing, compelling and lovely.
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The title of this post is specifically referring to the O2 concert run - and based on that, yes Prince still has the record for most nights performed. Michael Jackson has the record for most nights sold. Who knows, another artist might have the record for highest income generated from possibly fewer shows played.
The 21 Nights accomplishment was big for the time, but to keep on boasting about it tells me that Prince hasn't done much since that's newsworthy.
Now - to the other posts that ridicule Bon Jovi's latest music: yes, they keep rehashing the same stuff and seem to have run out of ideas . . . remind you of anyone else? |
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no-one is saying the artists take all the money. what i'm suggesting is that i bet prince personally received more money per night than jon bon jovi did, even though his tickets were more expensive. in a recent interview he admitted he doesn't have a clue how much the tickets were or what people got for the premium seats. whilst most of princes tickets were £31.21, remember all the floor seats that were £200 or something, that was a lot of seats, and he also had the aftershows. bon jovi would need to split money more equally amongst themselves than prince would pay his musicians for hire, so even if the band got 3x as much as prince per show, split 4 ways or more, each member would get less than prince | |
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STARTS: 17/05/2010 EXPIRES: 25/06/2010Ticketmaster are selling 2 tickets for price of 1 for Bon Jovi at O2, London on Friday 25th & Saturday 26th June 2010.
Nope,Prince (21) - sold out!
Bon Jovi (12) (with half price tickets)! & Record Company Backing!
Who Da Man ! | |
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so you get a ticket to both nights and hear the same songs that all sound the same anyways, in the same order both nights? you may as well go see status quo | |
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Well thats not entirely true, Bon Jovi is a rock band and you know what you are gonna get, which is true, but i also know that from a billion other rock bands, like a Rolling Stones, or if a new Joan Jett cd came out i know im not going to get her rapping, im gonna get her one note hooks. In my opinion Jovi mastered that sound and ability and made it work while the other bands from that era all killed themselves on drugs and went broke. Jon never came off as this ego maniac preacher that he was the god of music, its a fucking rock band people let it go.
As for not diversiving NOT TRUE, Jovi had projects were it went darker, "Destination Anywhere" was blasted by the critics because Jon was trying to be "artsy" Richie Sambora cut a blues record and that was blasted too, David Bryan the keyboard player does musicals in his spare time away from the band, so there is more to them that what "we think", then of course when they stripped down and used an orchestra, their fans blasted them for it, and Jon said "ok, we were just trying something different" so damned if you do, and we all Prince does mix it up, though not lately, but his best work, 2001-2002, gets put down 24/7 on this forum, so maybe we cant take "change".
And again the 21 nights is a great thing, but if u2 said they were doing a farewell tour Prince's "crown" would be on Bono's head in a minute. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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I hate Bon Jovi but facts are facts - they're still runnin' tings | |
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Well thats it 100%, i dont dislike them, but it is a fact, people talk like, "oh theyre finished", are they smoking?? how do say to artists that have been around 25 years "youre finished" i mean thats as dumb as saying MPLsound was a great Prince cd. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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MICHAEL JACKSON 50 NUFF SAID Atom Heart Mother  | |
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Only in the US of A sorry!, check the reviews - The org is filled with old rockers...
The arrogance is probably meant to be charming, but he is right – he is almost the modern definition of an American idol, like a blow-dried Bruce Springsteen as designed by an A&R department after conducting a straw poll of women on a hen night.
Bon Jovi fans are highly synchronised, hand-clapping on cue like extras in a Queen video.
But none of it feels real. When Jon Bon Jovi over- emotes through Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah, with eyes shut and hands reaching up to the light, its feels less like an act of spiritual surrender than an audition for Simon Cowell.
Bon Jovi is on a major label but they still can't sellout 21 nights at the o2 ......
Who da Man = Prince
Oh and all those cheap shot's using MJ to back up your point is sad, we all know he never got to play 50 shows, so it does not count - FACT!
Prince = 21
Bon Jovi (with full band) = 12 Eye Was Born & Raised On The Same Plantation In The United States Of The Red, White And Blue Eye Never Knew That Eye Was Different Til Dr. King Was On The Balcony
Lying In A Bloody Pool......Call me a Dreamer 2 - R.I.P - James Brown and Michael Jackson | |
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the first show I went to I was surrounded by non-fans who were just treating the O2 like a bar with live entertainment. | |
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And the cheapest ticket for MJ was £75! It's irrelevant if he played them or not; 50>21>12.
That in mind, if you ask almost any Londoner who deserves the O2 crown, you know what they'll say? "I don't care" LOL
[Edited 6/10/10 7:44am] | |
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Don't ever try to beat Prince.
For one, Prince didnt barely make 21 shows, he just chose that number. If I recall correctly didn't Prince do aftershows too on some of those nights as well. I think the last thing Prince was worrying about is if he could sell out 21 shows in 21 nights. That does take balls to take no days off and even with the audience, no break - here is your chance, come see him or not!
Bon Jovi is a good band, but they aren't Prince... Sure they a few nice songs, but outside of America they are just another band. Decent band, but nothing like OMG I need to see them! There isn't anything special to their concerts.
As for MJ just because there was a demand for 50 shows from fans or even 100 shows, doesn't mean anything. If you look at my old post at the time I called it, I said he wouldn't do ONE show! I was right, he couldnt even get through a half speed walk through practice. The guy was sick! Anyone can see that, this wasn't a surprise!
Right now if Prince wanted he could play well anywhere and do the samething. I think its more of being semi retired and enjoying life. He made a nice killing 6 years ago and he has picked 1 show gigs making over $1 million for each. Not bad money for 3 hours work! | |
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I will say this about Prince's performances: although he plays the hits, he does not re-enact them. I watched MJ's "This Is It" documentary, and he brought out all the old costumes - Thriller, Smooth Criminal, etc.
In a way that's cool, but MJ borrowed heavily on his video presence, whereas Prince seems to just focus on the music.
As far as the 21 Nights - don't discount the feat or the performances just because the tickets were cheaper than other artists. I have not seen Prince give a bad show, and can't imagine he'd play "better" for more money. He might play longer, but again I don't think so. |
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MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Well Prince might well be all about the music, but i for one was bored shitless everytime i saw one of his meandering, uninspired main shows at the O2, much as MJ could be derided for getting his Smooth Criminal on again, Prince equally drags out tired old tunes, but as he gets older with far less spectacle.
Take Me With U, Nothing Compares 2 U, I Feel 4 U, Raspberry Beret, U Got The Look, just fucking tiresome and dull. All those songs should be retired permanantly.
Could be a case of familiarality breeding contempt, i've seen him plenty of times. But i feel he was far better 5 years earlier on his last tour in the UK. From what i've seen, the Musicology tour was as bad as the Earth Tour, don't know about Vegas, but it's Vegas. I'd imagine he'd pander to the masses there, so probably more of the same. |
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Totally agree, i have seen Prince 76 times and it wasnt until the last 10 i'd say or a little more, that Prince was becoming nothing more than a traveling side show of hits and covers, the band was not top notch at all, his playing was there as always, but the inspiration to play these songs now seemed like his "job". "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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you've seen a lot less shows than i have, but i don't get bored at them, even all the o2 shows and aftershows. sure some songs are a bit tired, but those songs are for the majority of the audience who only see one show on the tour and wanna hear the hits. for the rest of us we get a changing setlist every night, and if that's not good enough for you then the fans get the aftershows that are very different to the main shows, and change even more every night
you would never get an MJ show where he didn't play billie jean, beat it, thriller etc. he never did aftershows or intimate shows for fans. prince does full sets at aftershows without playing a single hit. you don't get that from any other artist. prince fans are lucky that he plays live shows every single year and has done for 30 years | |
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but who wants to watch a 40 year old re-enact what they did when they were 20, nevermind a 50+ year old
even the other big pop acts who rely on dancing and effects to hide the lack of musicianship and the lipsynching change the shows through the years to keep things fresh and up to date. madonna, britney, kylie all changed, but mj just kept the same old shit all the time. fair enough that most people seeing him had never seen him live before, but surely both he and the band were sick of the same old same old. it was just like a circus routine or musical, not like a rock/pop concert
i don't wanna see prince do the hits the same way all the time, fuck that, i'd be bored out of my fucking skull. if i had a pound for each time i saw him play purple rain? thank fuck he at least changes it a bit from time to time | |
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its not about being bored, i have never been bored by anyone that i put down money to see in concert. Its more or less the laundry list service he has been giving and almost the look he has where he cant believe he plays these songs still. I just recently saw a-ha in nyc 3 nights in a row then went on to chicago and then 2 more in la all in the course of two weeks and the setlists were 100% the same each night and i never once was like "oh damn this song again", mainly because the vibe and "life" was in all the members, i sometimes wish Prince had something to vibe off of when he is on stage, in the past him and his bands have vibed but im not seeing it lately.
I dont have problems with doing hits, i know there is that "contract" that artists have with the audience that a certain batch of songs get played, my issue with Prince is its getting a little tired to hear these medleys rolled out, Prince's tighest playing was on the One Nite Alone Tour because he was inpsired by the work, i often feel now Prince puts out a record and if you are lucky he will play one or two songs from the new record. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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i'm not quite sure what your problem is. if you see most big long established artists they will play the big hits live in every tour. prince is one of the few artists who have done tours without playing his hits, such as the gold experience and one night alone tours. but joe public aren't interested in those tours, they want to hear the hits, so from time to time he will do hits tours to please the public and capatalise on. at the same time the hardcore fans get aftershows and other small gigs
you can't really compare aha to prince as they aren't half as famous or commercial succesful. they only have 10 albums and have only toured 9 times in 25 years. they are basically lucky to have anyone go and see them these days, so it's no wonder they are happy on stage. they've announced they are splitting after the current tour, so probably happy they don't have to play take on me again. they are a band that would have had to play that song in every fucking show they've ever done
with the last few albums prince has released, i can't say i've cared if he has played any tracks from them or not, and most of the fans feel the same. i remember at one indigo2 aftershow he cut a new song short as the audience weren't digging it. the ONA tour had a great album to play live, it was small venues with a great sound setup, and he was playing pretty much to his hardcore fans with joe public mostly unaware of the tour. it was musicology where he churned out the hits but put bums on seats and made money. that's his job, it's like the big gigs are his day job and the aftershows are his fun. avoid the big shows if you don't wanna hear the hits | |
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i dont think a-ha is as lucky as any artist that could still tour and have people come out, they have never had an issue with selling out shows and can draw people in venues that artists like MJ would only be able to draw, i doubt you will see Prince go to South America and sell out shows, thats just fact. And actually a-ha did a tour in 1991 and didnt play Take On Me once in that tour, and it was accpeted, u can tour and do new songs, and a-ha are not "happy" just to be on stage, i mean that again can be said of anyone, they arent "lucky" they are a good band deal with it, you dont go to these countries and sell out because of one song. And those 9 tours they have done are 3times the length that artists do now and call tours, and they tour every album which not too many artists do anymore. But they arent the issue, Prince is, i have no problem with him playing the fucking hits, but play them if you are going to play them, stop playing them for a minute and then another and another, thats why his shows have become less than stellar, not to mention his band, is not his best by any means. As for Prince's commercial success, he may have been bigger than a-ha though in many countries thats not the case and there numbers overall in terms of albums sold are not that far off. Prince is coming off now like Chicago is coming off on their tours, novelity, fun, nothing new, nothing special. Prince's aftershows that you mention are not constructed for fans anymore, lets not forget that, you cant make that statement for someone that charges 300 dollars and up for a "maybe" performance. Which he has done here in NYC. So again i could care less what he plays on stage, but it is wearing thin at this point to hear Kiss done the same way for 4000 time.
"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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you know prince hasn't done edited/medley versions of his tracks for a long time? he stopped doing that ages ago. he played full versions during musicology and the o2 | |
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certain songs were still very edited down....piano medleys, acoustic parts, and again not saying he cant play hits, but what happend actually doing full hits cut the show down to 20 songs and rip through them start to finish? I know he likes to re-do them, which is fine, im all for changing up how you do a song, thats how you keep old songs fresh, so i as someone that has put down big cash on Prince for aftershows, private shows, concerts etc...and he knows that most people that see him now, have seen him tons of times, he aint bringing in much new folks, though he may say he is, which is fine, thats called a base and following, and WHY an artist like Prince or a-ha or jovi or anyone still on tour 25+ years later can do shows and tours. I think if we polled Prince concert goes that have seen him 20+ times what they want im not sure many hits would be on that list. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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i don't really count the piano and accoustic sections. he used to play full band versions of hits and edit them down to a verse and chorus and he's stopped doing that now. the piano and guitar medleys are pretty good, but he can't really do the same in a big gig and do it justice if he is playing full songs. the accoustic show at paisley was great as it was full songs, but that was an hour + set. for a main show the audience get bored after a few minutes, so the best way to do it is for a medley
whilst most prince fans might want something at a show, most ticket holders at a big show would disagree. he's publically stated that he plays the hits cuz that's what people want to hear. it's just the fans who don't, which is why he mixes up the set and why he does the aftershows. he obviously doesn't want to play kiss and purple rain every night, but the paying public do. playing those hits is just what every other band do when they tour
from time to time you will have a band who stop playing a song or two as they are sick of it, such as radiohead and creep, but they can't just stop playing all the hits as prince has done on a couple of tours. he pulled it off with the gold experience as his popularity hadn't completely gone by then, but with ONA it was a scaled down theatre tour when 8 years previous he was doing stadium tours | |
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I think you can try it, you can def do events where you just play an album straight through, and i know that every fan or every artist would not mind that, if Prince said he was doing a Sign O The times tour, playing it straight through and did that in theaters on a small scale it would be just as inspirational to him, and maybe recharging him somewhat. Styx did this on the Paradise Theater tour, and Grand Illusion anniversary tours by playing the album, Rick Springfield did this with "Wroking class dog" for a four day event in Milwaukee doing electric and acoustic shows, these things can be pulled off and do work, i think Prince slights himself on Hits Tours, he can pack them in regardless, i mean when you buy a ticket you buy a ticket there are no rules, I mean Duran Duran did this on the Red Carpet tour and did that whole album for the most part, When you buy a ticket i think people assume you have get to hear a certain batch of songs, which is just as arrogant as an artist going out on stage and playing nothing you have ever heard. So each is a valid argument, but its got be mixed up, and when you have a new record shit i wanna hear it, Prince put out Emancipation and ditched that thing like a protege. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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you can't compare bands like aha and rick springfield and styx to prince. they have a much smaller fanbase, so if they want to play a whole album they aren't limiting the number of tickets they would be selling. why should prince play a theatre tour of an album when he can play stadiums? he can play what he wants when he wants in a small venue if he wanted to play a whole album, but right now he can sell large venues if he plays the hits, so why would he wanna stop doing that? it's the promoters and agents that offer him money to play those shows, they wouldn't offer as much money if he wasn't going to play the hits
the problem with him dumping albums from playing them live is down to the time between recording the album, releasing it and going on tour. if he wants a major release he's going to have delays, and in between the delays he ends up writing and recording another album and losing interest in the last one, so the record companies were to blame before, and these days it's just commercial reasons that he doesn't play the new songs, cuz he is offered money to play hits, not new songs, the promoter knows what the audiences want to make them buy tickets and it's not songs from the new album
i'm sure you've seen long established artists before, and it's great when the hits are played, and it's a downer when you hear the words "here's a new one...", as everyone rushes to the bar and toilets whilst thom yorke goes in a trance playing something that doesn't even vaguely represent music, when people just want him to play creep and stuff from the bends and ok computer and he can stick his drum machine up his arse. people go to see them to hear high and dry and just, not the weirdy crap. it's the same with prince, folk want to hear purple rain, not the theocratic order | |
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with the exception of a-ha you are right about fanbases being smaller, a-ha can go into any country and sell out, Prince is more limited to the states and uk, a-ha does many stadiums, almost all of their south american shows are stadiums and they have tons of stadiums still to go on this tour, so that to me is a tour...when you are actually going around to different venues and places. Now the USA is not a-ha's place, it hasnt been for a long time, and yet the venues that they went into they sold out quicker than any artist that has ever played there, though they were smaller venues than what they normally play, that is irrelevant long term, but, it is why they could not mount a full USA tour because the cost would eventually become a huge bill of trekking around the states playing 2500 seaters, but again that goes for any artist like you said. They are clearly raking in the money on all the other countries where they can sell 20-30,000 seats with no problem, and they have been known (and hold the rercord) for largest paying crowd, of 191,000. But they were selling these seats regardless of set lists, or promises of what they would play, their 2000 return tour, was a 24 set song list, and they did 12 from the new album at the time.
Now i agree with you on that people tend to get up and go to the bathroom when artists play a new song, but to me, i dont want to go to an Elton John show and hear Your Song, i want something new. And yes they get paid to play hits although im not sure an artist hands over their set list to a promoter and that gets them a check, the tours labeled as HITS tours maybe thats the case. But again i feel its the artists call, your ticket is to see the person on the ticket, thats all you are guaranteed.
Also can Prince sell "stadiums" are we sure of this, i mean he hasnt mounted a tour since 2004, and though that was huge, there werent "stadiums" in that tour, plus the world was alot different then, now no one is really selling out shows here regardless of who they are. [Edited 6/13/10 14:55pm] "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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