I'm not a fan of Ms. Jackson at all... I think she has as much talent as dry paint. I think she was scapegoat for those who had issues with Michael,
she was a Jackson, less kick her since we can't get him. What happened that night (Super Bowl) was mistake and much to do about nothing, plan and simple. What's even more horrible, very few people stood up for Ms. Jackson so say, I know her, that's not something she would do, and if she said this was an unfortunate accident than it was. No one came to her defense, shame.



=====
[Edited 3/17/10 18:20pm]

cborgman said:

I think it's both her music and the incident. But moreso the incident. Her music wasn't being heard by many so it's hard to just judge it based on her music. Critics panned her for being overly sexual (the usual with Janet) on Damita Jo and when she released 20 Y.O. They dogged the living shit out of her even her "fans" did but my Janet remained mettle and unbothered
[Edited 3/17/10 18:05pm]

midiscover said:

well, i can't speak for anyone but myself, but from my perspective, the incident was one of the more moronic american moments of the last decade. it was the most overhyped, puritanical modern version of the salem witch trials in which an entire nation ceased to function because they saw a breast. it was pathetic and idiotic.

my dwindling interest in her is because her last 3 albums have largely bored me.

i am sure i will continue to buy her stuff the same way i do prince's: in vain hope that they will ever get close to being as interesting and excellent as they used to be.

TD3 said:

A few celebs came to her defense but overall the people that were a part of the incident didn't. Because they felt their careers were on the line.

cborgman said:

mm ok.

midiscover said:

You and I disagree about the stuff you put a line through, that's your girl and that's OK.

I didn't even watch any of the Super Bowel. But when Ms. Jackson told her side of the story it seem logical to me but the shit kept snow balling. I'm still convinced this was impart she was a scapegoat. Afterwards... when she was on Winfrey show and spoke of how her so called friends and long time associates turned away, wow. I still think folks didn't stand up for her..... How much did that fiasco affect her music sales I can't say for sure, since I'm not a listener of her music.

TD3 said:

Yep, even black folks dissed her and that was supposed to be the community to "have her back". So she was a scapegoat for EVERYBODY. I won't forget when Chris Rock went on a rant against her (not to mention MJ and "greasy ass Jermaine").

i think the overreaction to the super bowl incident is one of the most inane and ridiculous things in the last 20 years in pop culture.

i don't think there is any question that did damage to Janet's commercial viability.

That said: the fact that she's released 3 pretty subpar albums in a row certainly doesn't help. Each one has a few strong tracks, but overall... meh. My partner is a HUGE janet fan, loves her up thru Velvet Rope. He thought All For You was a dip downward, and then she hit a huge slide artistically with Damita Jo and 20 yo, although he and I both think Discipline was a step up.

Will be interesting to see what the next project brings.

Timmy84 said:

I know, shame. I'm not a fan but I bought Damita Jo just because... I thought there was a witchhunt going on.

NoVideo said:

exactly how i feel.


.
[Edited 3/17/10 19:09pm]

Drew's true comeback was courtesy of a cameo in Scream. She had hard times and even now she's realized she might not be a screen star for long and is geering herself more towards a directing career. Plus, she's got Uncle Stevie (Spielberg) to watch her back. Who does Bridges have? Mrs. Garrett?

George Clooney and Drew are part of Hollywood royalty too. Sometime's it's who you are related to or who you know to help you get through. Unfortunately, black actors just don't have that lineage, yet. But take a look at Will Smith's kids, as generations pass, things will get better.

Now, the real key is going to be black folks starting their own studios (and that's happening to. Hello Tyler Perry and Lee Daniels.) and hiring black scriptwriters and black agents. Once that happens, peeps like Bridges will be given better chances. So, is it racism? I wouldn't go that far...I'd call it institutional preferential treatment.

Harlepolis said:

1. Isn't it a damn shame that Halle has to bend over and take it (acting-wise) to FINALLY win an Oscar of Best Actress?

THIS^ was the exact message that was being sent to some viewers with some knowledge of symbolism.

2. There nothing wrong in seeing a black female character on film getting save by a black male character. Hell, white female characters (Jane/Lois Lane) gets saved by white male characters (Tarzan/Superman) all the time within Hollywood history.

TonyVanDam said:

You know what though, statistically, all actresses have a better chance of winning an Oscar if you play a hooker, whore or morally flawed character. Keep in mind, Whoopi played the hero in Ghost and won.

TonyVanDam said:

1. finally?

maybe i am forgetting something, but i don't remember halle being that great in anything prior to monster's ball. introducing dorthy dandrige, but that was made for tv.

i mean, i didn't like monster's ball, but she was good in it.

2. the damsel in distress thing is pathetic, no matter the skin tone of the people. that's part of the mass sexism of mainstream movies and a lot of their audience.
[Edited 3/17/10 19:34pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Don't get me started on that fairy tale manure Believe me if someone else besides Ms. Berry had played that role I'm not sure there would have been much gushing over it. My issue isn't with her it's just the b.s. storyline.

all this mess over a tit?!?! she's should've flashed both of them!!



1. FFS!! IT'S A BREAST!!!

2. justin timberlake was just as much a part of it and no bad press for him.

3. i think her initial going back and forth as to if it was an accident or part of the routine is what hurt her. and she would avoid it at all costs when asked.
that does not read well in public opinion.
she should've OWNED it and said 'so what it's a tit!' no shame.

4. her albums have been kind of bland. but i may be in the minority of those who really liked 20 y.o. and Discipline debuted at #1 i think, and 'Feedback' was a top hit. but she did maybe one promo on Larry King then disappeared. i think that was part of what killed the albums momentum.

5. her 2cd hits collection should've been promoted heavily but wasn't. Make Me is a fucking great song and is reminiscent of classic Janet. that should've been a huge hit.


it would be sad, better yet, hypocritical, to think a woman who's given us over 20 years of great songs, videos, & performances is being blacklisted over a boob.





so, i think the public, the media, justin timberlake and Janet & Co. all had a hand in tarnishing her success. her pop icon status will never be taken away. her future chart success is another question...but who really cares about the charts anymore?



Spent most your life pretending not to be
The one you are but who you choose to see
Learned to survive in your fictitious world
Does what they think of you determine your worth


Tryin' to please everyone
Sacrifice your own needs
Check in the mirror my friend
No lies will be told then
Pointin' the finger again
You can't blame nobody but you

Ummm... I hate to break it to some ppl, but Janet's commercial plummet had little to do with the Superbowl.

If it was about the Superbowl, how do u explain her flopping in the UK? Frace? Germany? Japan? They all thought it was much ado about nothin! Yet she flopped in thsoe places too.

America is Janet's BEST market. Discipline hit #1 in The US and reached gold status. Compare that to reaching #63 in the UK and not even shifting 10,000 copies. Was that because of the superbowl too?

Sometimes, ppl just fall off. Why did Paula Abdul start flopping in the mid 90s? Why did Cyndi start flopping? Why did Cher flop at various stages in her career? Tina? Why do ppl flop? Ppl always try to pin it on somethin, but the real thing is A HIT IS NEVER GUARANTEED. Janet was gettin older and ppl were over it... that's all it was. SB just sped up somethin that was already comin. American radio doesn't play old ladies, anyway.

TD3 said:

i sat through the whole movie wondering if i was supposed to be shocked that it was an interracial relationship.

crap movie, crap script, well acted, though. she was amazing in that screaming and weeping moment when they executed puffy. that really got to me. the rest of the cast was excellent too
[Edited 3/17/10 19:44pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Kate Winslet was butt naked in about 90% of the time she was onscreen, ridin a 16 YO dick for "The Reader." Kate had been nominated 5 TIMES prior. Wouldnt the logic work more for Kate Winslet? Halle hadn't even been nominated before, so WTF do u mean by "finally" as if it was a long time comin?

So did she Kate have to hump 16 yo dick to do that because she was black, too? Since its all about bein BLACK, right?

sosgemini said:

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner lol

sleepyq said:

I never got the big deal about Halle. Angela Bassett surely had more talent lol

sleepyq said:

I think Janet's fallout had to do with subpar material, poor promotion, record labels mishandling her, and failure to promote overseas, and also JD trying to make Janet hip-hop. All those factors messed her up far more than the Super Bowels. And yes I said that on purpose lol
[Edited 3/17/10 20:07pm]

sleepyq said:

I understand what you're saying but I disagree.

Janet's main market has always been America. It has NEVER been overseas leave that for her brother, who was the total opposite. The same can be said for Madonna and a few others. Her career hurt gratefully because of the Superbowl. Yes, she's an aging pop star and of course, ageism is a focus in America. But to say the Superbowl hurt her career a little is pure bullshit.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:22pm]

Timmy84 said:

U know what the deal was. Angela didn't play Hollywood's game like Halle did. Halle played the game well. She got what she wanted (an Oscar and notoriety) and she has pretty much been done with Hollywood. I think all she has now are her endorsements.

I think it also had to do with mass appeal. Angela is a damn-good actress, but her appeal is limited. Halle, on the other hand, has a MASS appeal that crosses racial, social, and ethnic lines.

daPrettyman said:

Halle bores the shit out of me. She got through because she was "prettier" but is that fair to say? No lol
[Edited 3/17/10 20:25pm]

sosgemini said:

Jodie Foster also won an Oscar for playing a role of a rape victim. But didn't Jodie also win one for playing a hooker as well?

daPrettyman said:

i also think halle was focused on being a star, which she is.

angela was focused on being a damn good actress, which she is.

it's like comparing cameron diaz to meryl streep.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:27pm]

TonyVanDam said:

she didnt win for taxi driver

she won for the accused, as a rape victim fighting for justice, and for silence of the lambs, where she is one of the stronger feminist characters to win an oscar.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:30pm]

cborgman said:

Yeah she won for "Silence of the Lambs".

Timmy84 said:

Yes! U got it! She was mismanaged and got a lot of bad advice. Since when was Janet an R&B singer?

I'm just sad Janet never got to come back. Mariah had TEOM and Madonna had COADF. Those albums sold 9 million worldwide in 2005, making them the biggest albums released that year and marking a triumphant return to the top for those 2 divas after their flops in the early '00s.

With Mimi and Madonna coming back like that, we know the pressure must have been very heavy on Janet. Did her ppl really think she could come back to the top with an album like 20 YO? That album was awful, easily her worst work ever, and at a time when she really needed to come with fiyah. And Call On Me as a comeback single? A generic track with a rent-a-rapper? They ruined whatever prospects she had at a comeback with that. And we all know how the story went from there...