Harlepolis said:

I googled it... He actually recorded "How Come" and wanted to record Adore and Prince wasn't having it

Harlepolis said:

Who would THAT be? Gail?

I've heard a lot about Alicia Keys in my life but never got round to checking her out, until last night when she did an interview & perfomance on E4 I think it was. I thought she had a great voice & she actually plays an instrument & apparently writes her own music, which is a lot more than most people in "the charts" can do. She gets a thumbs up from me

MyNameIsCally said:

Read the thread. A lot of that has been greatly disputed.

MyNameIsCally said:

She poses like she can play but when you really check it out, she's not so hot on the keys lol. Marvin, Aretha and Donny can whup her ass in a piano-playing contest. Real talk.

I'm not a big fan of her anymore ,,alot of people I really like are falling off lol

Well i keep hearing and seeing this complaints of "not growing as an artist" well lets think about it for a minute now. The industry does not exist the way it did in lets say the "70's as an example. So for us or me to compare the progression of Elton John to the progression of ALicia Keys or Joss Stone or John Legend is INSANE. Main reason Elton was doing 2-3 albums a year, this cat had 21 albums out by the AGE OF 33! And that was 1981. U had to grow back then U were forced by the Elements to do this and that, where as today U HAVE A PUBLICIST TELLING US what you do or what we think U do. And when i say the elemnets of the day i mean COMPETITION of the day, U arent forced now to do an album or two a year, because music is a BUSINESS now more than ever, but unlike then its NOT the only game in town, and its not the important thing is was to the average day person, sorry, to be so blunt, but MUSIC DONT MEAN SHIT ANYMORE on the real to people anymore, its the "fries" added on to the meal, when it used to be the MEAL.

So i dont wanna hear about competition today because of the "net" and their being this WELL and SEA of talent thats untapped out there, bullshit, theres just as much SHIT on the net as there is on a label. I can find something good on a label buried somewhere just as much as i can find it buried on some website. So the NET is HYPE.

But thats the business now, U cut an album every 2-3 years, you do a movie, you do your magazines, and maybe u throw in a small tour every now and then, thats the blue print now. Theres no COMPetition because labels are afraid of putting albums out at the same time because they fear backlash, well that backlash, USED to be called competition and cause everyone to step things up.
[Edited 12/17/09 15:51pm]

LD, maybe I can shorten your speech here: the industry's got a lot of money-hungry folks that rather feed you fast food than a homemade dinner.

lastdecember said:

I agree with much of this, but one thing I'll say older artists had easier was their albums were half as long. And that was not a bad thing!

Keeping a 70 minute album interesting has to be a challenge, that's why nobody did double albums except the very best.

Yes Alicia can sing, and Yes she can play. She's not the best, but again, I think it's magic when she's performing something she's into. There's no artist out that gives me this feeling when they perform, except Fantasia. She's playing in this video and I wouldn't call it amateur.

NDRU said:

Well to me the "album" thing being too long is 100% true, for everyone during the 90's and early 00's i think finally peeps are catching on and we are getting somewhat back to reality. I blame that on CD's though and people thinking, well theres 80minutes free, give me 80 minutes, which to me IS STUPID, i understand the philosphy, you feel you paid for a cd and got a short one. BUT what do you do when you go to a movie, you pay the same price for a 90minute movie that you would for 140minute movie, so that philosphy has never held any water with me.You just add shit to a record to fill it up and then what?

This is about as hard as I've ever seen you gents and ladies slam someone. If I were Ms. Keys and I read this thread, I think I'd cry.


When Ms. Keys came upon the scene, I didn't have an opinion one way or other. I thought I heard a lil' something.... that made me believe she could emerge as successful artist/musician but since then nothing really has happened. Still, I can't make up my mind if she's like some of the other posers. (Lenny Kravitz and John Legend)

Irrespective of the talent, a lot of these artist that have emerged in the past I say 15, years, seem not to be able to get past album # 3. Their debut maybe a follow up album are brillliant/great/good but after that they leave the reservation never to return. Once they brought hope and promise of greater expectation but they fall flat. I'm certain this is because the brutal competition, the institutions, and the community that once groomed such artist/musician no longer exist. Can we say Live Music. Some of them look like they needed a couple of more years of working on their craft and for some reason I get this feeling maybe in part this is Ms. Keys's problem. I maybe wrong, I not sure.

But even the people Timmy mentioned worked years before the found their sound, Sista Franklin's Columbia Years wasn't necessarily her highlight was it? Please. don't start! I'm NOT comparing those two at all. I am saying it's a process and a lot of these 'kids' are being hyped and pushed to be something for which they don't have the tools to take it to the next level, let alone stay there for awhile. Don't talk about the artist who take extended 7/8 years "breaks".

As call me Ms. Ross said, "Some people think it's easy, you just opened up your mouths and start singing, but it's more involved".

Just my two cents. Sorry for the long post.

=====
[Edited 12/18/09 8:51am]

Those artists had the ability to craft their talent. Unfortunately Alicia is in an era where they try to make "overnight sensations" and the problem with Alicia is she seems uninspired. It's like she's just makes the records and go home. Don't get me wrong, she did work hard but it seems like she was more lucky and had great PR rather than find out how to do it (the hard way). Alicia comes off not too genuine but I think it's more the record company that's at fault than the artist is and Alicia could be great if she had driven herself harder and had been inspired, looks like none of that is in her plate as far as music goes.

Timmy84 said:

I guess in a way she feels the extra hard work isn't worth it. I thought TDOAK was a good album but during that time she couldn't escape the Beyonce comparisons, who doesn't imho put as much effort into her work as Alicia. For Alicia to lean more towards pop doesn't help her case, but I'm sure it's easier and equally rewarding...well until now.

Unfortunately the current music industry is not one that encourage growth and development and now it's suffering because of it.
[Edited 12/17/09 17:32pm]

Timmy84 said:

But there again its not on Alicia, we dont know the circumstances facing an artist, i mean on a label you cant just say im touring and go out and do it now. This isnt the 70's when you had to do it, I mean look at iTunes, it offers these bonus IN STUDIO performances with an artist for artists that dont tour usually and that takes the place of people having to go to a show. I also blame the public because it doesnt go to shows, yeah i know, the money etc.. but the only reason that has gone up is because music to most isnt important. I mean i heard alot of these complaints about Norah Jones on her first tour (wide tour), people were saying, doesnt she get up from behind the piano, she doesnt seem inspired etc... I was like "WHAT THE FUCK" where were you when i saw her playing clubs for 2 years with no contract pimping a $5 demo cd, so dont tell me Norah didnt do the legwork. The game is different now as we all KNOW, U HAVE to sell out the box, or your gone, its that simple. If Prince,Elton,REM,u2,Inxs,DepecheMode etc...were around todays labels they would be dropped album one. I recently watched a DOC with BillyJoel on "the Stranger" album, now that was Billy's 6th record, he really didnt have a "hit" at that point, he never knew but the label was gonna drop him or THINK about it, if this album did do something. To that point he had minor hits with Piano Man and "Say goodbye to Hollywood" but he was still viewwed as a barely Gold record recording artist 5 albums in, today BILLY would be gone, that is a sad state of things.

I wonder the state of music for 2010 just going to get worse and worse

Timmy84 said:

Yep, very well said Timmy, concise and to the point.


If you aren't being "you" doesn't your music suffer? I think so.

TD3 said:

There's a point when these packaged artists break out of their wrappings, and do their own thing. They realize that the machine that got them there is not what they want to be a part of anymore. P!NK did it right off. Aguilera did it too. Both were successful. (Neither wanted to be a pop princess.) If Alicia really wanted to do something genuine, and different, she could. She has the "clout" to break out a bit and be something more than Clive's bitch. Hell even Whitney knew when to grow up a bit at some point, and although she kept Clive around, he knew when to let her grow. Alicia doesn't want that. She seems content to rest on her early fame and hype. God bless her, she's milking that shit 10 years later, but the milk has turned sour, and curled like a motherfucker.

I don't always blame the artist at first. You kind of do what you have to do in order to get in the business, and get your feet wet and get some success, even if it's a bit manufactured. I think in today's industry, it's part of the "paying dues" routine (whereas 20 years ago "paying dues" might have been very different. It's just like folks on Idol. Daughtery did his thing on there, and bit his tongue with stuff, and worked his connection to have the biggest selling album of 2007, or 2006, whichever year (which sounded NOTHING like any Idol album, and was really fucking good). Alicia has had her "Do As I Say" time w/ the record label. She needs to step it up, or step off. Drop the fact ghetto affect, drop the "my shit is blessed by Allah" attitude, and do something that is just as good as she thinks she is.

Timmy is spot on with the "uninspired" line. Very spot on. Again, she's riding her own coattails. I don't blame the record company at this point. It's all on her shoulders. She ain't walking into the record company, all Bugs Bunny w/ braids looking, saying "Okay, what's now, folks?"

Right she's gotta step up to the plate. Step out of the box. She has talent, use it to your advantage rather than try to still come off as some neo-soul/hip-hop savant. It isn't 2001 anymore.

GaryMF said:

I don't know if she "wrote" it or not, but every time I hear "Empire State of Mind" I keep waiting for The Moments to break out with "Love On A Two-Way Street".

PDogz said:

Who knows if she did write it? I look for the Moments too.

PDogz said:

From wikipedia:
"Empire State of Mind" is an anthemic hip hop song that features sampling from "Love on a Two-Way Street" by The Moments with influences of electropop and orchestra pop.

Timmy84 said:

Credited writers for "Empire State of Mind": S. Carter, A. Shuckburgh, A. Keys, A. Hunte, J. Sewell-Ulepic. And contains a sample of "Love on a Two-Way Street" by The Moments.

PDogz said:

They need to credit Burt Keyes and Sylvia Robinson too! That's just foul.

I think Alicia time has passed and i'm glad ernestsewell mention daughtry I love him

ernestsewell said:

But still there are underlying things here, First of ALL, Pink, is about to do a 360 with her image and sound, going to a more commercialized thing. So with Alicia im thinking "what do we expect from her"? Is Alica a great artist, well no, but why do we think she has to be? Because we are buying into the hype, that is the major issue here, but is she better than album one, well we can all debate that till we die, but to me, album one was shit, to someone else it might have been gold. I mean alot of times its this thinking that stunts an artist, if someone says to me the best band Prince ever had was the Revolution right away i know they are smoking purple joints, the revolution were not even close to his best band and just because that time period was the most successful it was by far his least best as a "musician" and his band was average at best.

lastdecember said:

I think the Revolution was the favorite band, not Prince's strongest. For me, that was the stripped down NPG of the mid 90's. Tight as a newborn's....um.....tight spot. The next closest was the Lovesexy band, although I wasn't a huge Levi and Mico fan, I recognized their talent in general.

I can understand the hate, and not liking her music and all but to say she can't really play piano is outrageous

Oh she can play, just not as well to who I compare her to lol

Like Alicia's music, I'm ambiguous, neither, here nor there with an opinion about her. I can play many or most of her piano works, and I use the term "works" very generously, and they are not difficult songs at all.However I like her improv during her live sets. Technically her musical ability is strong for the genre of music she's in, so her skill level should never come into play.
She isn't Yundi Li on the ivory or Mariah on the vocals, but she holds her on.

Alicia plays it too safe, and doesn't take risks, and I want to like her music, but I have to be in a certain mood to really enjoy it.

Her strengths are in her performances imo, not the phony-studio drivel she puts out. Her Madrid performance, AOL performances, and some of her acoustic sets are great..If she just stuck to just creating songs with just her and the piano,
ala "Never Felt This Way"(I know she jacked the original from B. McKnight and went from Eb to C#minor)

But when she adds in the silly bands, it all heads south.