BenaimanBawkah said:

Why would I pick on Serena? She is not the one dogging hip hop for supposedly being homophobic and ignoring that hip hop is undoubtedly misognynistic. I don't see your point...other than you like Gaga a lot.

DesireeNevermind said:

Supposedly? Hip hop in general is undeniably homophobic.

And I don't see where she was ignoring misogyny entirely. She elaborated on homophobia in hip hop music because she was asked specifically about homophobia. Last time I checked, 'misogyny' is not pronounced 'homophobia,' and it would've been awfully strange if she had continued about misogyny when that wasn't what she was asked about. And, as I said before, why exactly does she have to put misogyny before homophobia? Why shouldn't she put the issues she places importance on first, rather than the ones you think she should address further?

Oh, and I don't think liking Gaga or not should be relevant here. She's stating an opinion (though I see it as more of a truth, even, than a mere opinion). Even if I hated her ass, I don't think I could bring myself to disagree with what she's saying. It just seems like you really don't want to agree with her at all.

Protege said:

nah, i disagree with you.
I think that maybe you could make that argument about late 80s and early 90s hip hop being homophobic but within the last decade hip hop has been overwhelmingly about rippin on the female as merely a sexual object. Even the videos are whored up. In fact it's always been that way going back to nasty ass 2 Live Crew. And like I said before, she said the word misogynist but didn't speak on it in any sort of detail. Now I will concede to you that she wasn't directly asked about it but then why even utter the word? If someone asks you about beans you're aren't going to talk about orange juice. When she mentions the word misogynist it's almost dismissive IMO. Kind of like "This is important...and then there's that other not so important thing."


As far as what she places importance on...well I don't know if I find her sincere or rather I don't think she places importance on the subject because it is truly an issue she takes to heart or because it's a hot topic to keep her in the news like her bozzio costumes..

Oh yeah, and I didn't like how she wouldn't balls up and mention this top of the game homophobic rapper. Name his ass...shit I would and I'd dare him to do something about it too.

DesireeNevermind said:

I still see hip hop as homophobic, and I cannot deny that it is entirely too misogynistic. I will grant that I don't listen to radio, partly for that very reason, so I don't know about the whole at the moment. I do know that the 'no homo' shit in this thread demonstrates my point. I just don't see homophobia as any less of an issue than it was years ago. Using it to prove 'masculinity' is less than admirable to me.

I don't see her as dismissive about misogyny, and in this clip we don't actually see the question the interviewer asked before she mentions misogyny, so we can't fairly say that she was bringing it up out of the blue. What I heard was that she elaborated on homophobia for one sentence ("I feel, even just in the music industry, that there is very public misogynistic and homophobic behavior. When I hear one of the most famous rappers in the world say something homophobic on the radio, I want people to yell at him."). After that, the interviewer asked her who she was talking about. I can't blame her for not elaborating because it's not really her fault she wasn't given a chance - this is a 60 second piece of an interview we're looking at. I didn't see her as blowing it off or denying its importance. It was just the topic more likely to get attention from viewers, so the interviewer latched on to it.

As far as your belief that she's not sincere, I see why you believe she isn't, but I believe she's genuinely concerned (being that she is bisexual herself), so we'll just differ on that.

And honestly, this is entirely beside the point, but I wouldn't want to name names either. I'm not the type to point fingers. I'd rather point out issues and try to solve them. Naming names, especially in the music industry, rarely solves problems. Usually it just creates more conflict, which is the opposite of what she's saying she wants to do. All doubts about her sincerity aside, I can't say it's wrong for her to choose not to name anyone.

DesireeNevermind said:

I never said you should pick on Serena in specific. What you need to do is acknowledge that there are other people in the music industry OTHER than Gaga who encourage objectification of women and misogynistic behavior. It's got nothing to do with the fact that I like her that I'm defending her. I'm merely saying that Beyonce, Shakira, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Vanity (who I believe is the lovely woman in your avatar)... all of these women have done the same thing Gaga is doing, and yet you're only complaining about her.

I'd also love for you to realize that homophobia DOES exist in hip-hop, and the world at large. It's not LESS of a problem than it used to be, it's MORE of a problem. Today, you see people constantly pointing out that they're not gay in order to prove their masculinity, or to prove how "normal" they are. You've got people fighting against equal rights for gays, just because they don't want to let go of their archaic beliefs in order to make good on the one promise this country was built on: freedom.


Besides, the interviewer asked her to elaborate on HOMOPHOBIA. Not MISOGYNY. When you're asked to elaborate on something in a school paper, you don't ramble on about the relative speed of a steam train from the 1930s, unless that's what's been asked of you.

I don't know how much plainer I can make what I'm saying.

BenaimanBawkah said:

YOU brought up Serena in the context of this conversation which I still don't see the relevance but wutevs. You were trying to make some kind of point or comparison using my Serena thread or Serena herself and it failed because Serena is not a musical artist nor a hip hop performer and as far as I know she has no relationship with Gaga and Gaga's stance on homophobia in hip hop music.


There is no question of whether homophobia exists in hip hop on some level- I'm sure you could find it in anything from cartoons to country music if you look hard enough. I have found that homophobia even exists amongst homosexuals themselves. What YOU need to realize, and you could do this just be listening to hip hop radio and popular hip hop artists, is that homophobia is not the running theme in hip hop music as Gaga is trying to imply.

Misogyny, being a pimp/player and outright disrespect of women IS the running theme and that is what needs to be addressed and combated. We need men in the business to stop defining their manhood by how many Hos they bang, and to stop dogging relationships as if they are the plague and to stop referring to women in general as bitches. I could go on. Once you get rid of misogyny in the music, everything else will fall into play and hip hop again will be about what's going on in people's lives versus what's just cute and popular to rhyme about.

Now it seems to me, and maybe I'm just reading you wrong, that you are trying purposely to place the homophobe tag on hip hop music as a whole just for the sake of doing so - almost like some right wing political nonsense. Now I have my own issues with hip hop and rap, mainly the misogyny and the simplicity, but I will defend the music genre when people, especially those who don't even listen to hip hop, try and disregard it by putting some label on it. What's interesting about this thread is that a couple of you posters are making hip hop out to be even more homophobic than Gaga has even stated. So I will pose a few questions to you that I can't pose to her since I don't have access to her - yet.


What is an undoubtedly homophobic and top 20 hip hop song on the radio right now and what are the lyrics that make it homophobic?
Who is this top rapper/hip hop artist that Gaga was referring to as being obviously homophobic?


Honestly, I want you to change my mind about this chick's argument and yours as well. This should be pretty easy since you know something I don't.

DesireeNevermind said:

Those two questions prove that you're really not conceding that homophobia is present at all. You're sitting here saying "it MIGHT be there" and then turning around and saying "but I don't believe it is, so show me". That's what I'm getting, and you're going to have to convince me otherwise.

To answer your question: http://gayteens.about.com...-wayne.htm

It's not that hard to find.

BenaimanBawkah said:

Ok you're just not gettin' it and I'm not surprised. YOu actually are using Lil Wayne's response to that photo of him kissing birdman as proof that homophobia is a problem in hip hop music in general? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? First off, that "no homo" phrase was not even invented by Weezy anymore than the phrase "big pimpin'" was invented by Jay Z. He picked that up from the youth of today so if you have a problem with it you have to take it to the colleges and highschools. Also, of the two songs you mentioned one was not even a top 40 and the other was popular but not even b/c of that one line. I thought you were going to impress me and come up with some song or rapper where the whole career was built on not liking the gays.

And I have no problem with a dude defining whether he is straight or gay.

DesireeNevermind said:

My fucking god lady, just listen for five seconds. The point is that HOMOPHOBIA IS A PROBLEM, and it's bigger than you admit it is. Misogyny is a problem too, yeah. I'm not denying that for an instant. But who the fuck are you to tell someone what they need to speak out against?

And yeah, when Lil Wayne has to go out of his way to say "no homo", I think that's QUITE homophobic. He's integrating this shit into his music to make himself look cool and straight, and all it's doing is making it look like he's bigoted and stupid.

And yeah, he didn't invent the phrase. I never said he did. I was merely pointing out that he said that. I'll find more and more and more if you want me to, because it's really quite prevalent.


For the record, I don't have a problem with guys saying that they're straight, but when you make a point to stress that you're not gay, and you constantly spout off with "NO HOMO", that's when it gets annoying as fuck. That makes it seem like you're afraid of the possibility of being gay, and that you think it makes you less of a man to be gay or bi.

BenaimanBawkah said:

My fucking good man, just listen for five seconds yourself cuz you obviously don't listen to hip hop music. The FACT is that homophobia is not a PROBLEM in hip hop music it is an issue and not a very big one IMO. I base that on what I hear from one hip hop song to the next. The PROBLEM and the BIG issue in hip hop is the MISOGYNY which can be found in the majority of hip hop songs, videos, CD sleeves, magazine covers, marketing images, and so on and so forth. I mean damn, if you are going to assign that much credit to Weezy for his one liner then why are you taking issue with me for bringing up Gaga throwing out her one line misogyny?

There is nothing wrong with Wayne saying he's not homo if he is indeed NOT. He is integrating it into his music, on a very small scale mind you, for two reasons: 1) to address accusations made against him and 2) to relate to the youth who use the phrase apparently on a regular basis. At least he's not trying to brand the phrase "that's so gay" that the youngsters, particularly the white suburban kids, are using for everything and anything.

Wayne is not constantly spouting off "no homo". Now if he says it a couple times and you find it annoying, well then you are entitled to and have a right to be annoyed but don't sit up here and piously tout Wayne's minor use of the phrase as the end all be all of homophobia in hip hop. That is ludicrous to say the least.

I'll make a deal with you. Film yourself talking about how big of a problem both misogyny AND homophobia are in hip hop and music in general, and I'll concede that you're right.

You have 45 seconds to elaborate on it all, and you can't edit clips together.

Sooner or later I'll cut it knock the blades in yo ass
You homo niggas getting Aids in the ass

Now tell me he's just pointing out he's not gay. He's deliberately picking on a specific group of people, and you're defending him.

That, in my eyes, makes you just as bad as he is.

BenaimanBawkah said:

did that some years back when I was a YT junkie. and might I add that I still hate Snoop Dog.

DesireeNevermind said:

Pics or it didn't happen.

BenaimanBawkah said:

sorry hon....confidentiality agreement.

DesireeNevermind said:

It didn't happen then. I want you to do it, seriously. If you can get mad at Gaga for not covering enough of misogyny when 1) she wasn't asked to elaborate on that, and 2) she didn't edit together the 60 SECOND CLIP that was posted, then I think it's only fair for you to try to explain in 45 seconds.

BenaimanBawkah said:

like I said....been there done that. people care....just not enough to stop shelling out the dough. find it if you can.

Well its slowly but surely becoming less popular to be homophobic. Here in New Zealand we stopped ragga artist Buju Banton from coming to the Big Day Out (Australasian music ferstival) because people were offended by his Homophobic lyrics. But we need to stop rap full stop, what does it actually do thats positive anymore. Its all gangs, calling women hoes and bitches, swearing, drugs, racism, crass materialism, and guys doing loon dances.

Huggiebear said:

pretty much on point. especially the hoes/bitches, the swearing and the crass materialism. fuck snoop dog. he's a big part of the problem.

DesireeNevermind said:

Amen.

They gone hear what they wanna hear though.

DesireeNevermind said:

This post is made of WIN.

Cinnie said:

Exactly!

Girl4both said:

Could you give examples. Reggae/dance hall is of course rampantly homophobic, but I don't think pop and rock are especially so in the way that hip-hop obviously is.

sassy33 said:

I'm just going to stop, because it's useless.

lady gaga is just using this as propaganda for more record sales.

find the videos of her before the record deal. she didnt look the way she does now yet she tries to say her act is not an image and she dresses/acts outlandishly on the regular.

controversy is a great marketing tool.

besides, what does she know about hiphop anyways?

there are two sides to every coin. there is just as much braggadocious and ignorant rap music as there is conceptual and creative.

lady gaga sucks anyways.

word!

minneapolisFunq said:

dayum!!! that's the best post on here.

DesireeNevermind said:

You have really low standards, and one of the most narrow minds I've ever come across.

Really, it wasn't even a decent argument. Just circular logic, like most of your posts have been.

HE ATE MY HEART