Serena said:

it's the dress

ehuffnsd said:

could you imagine? that's crazy!

in my opinion, though, madonna should NOT have spoken about herself SOOOO much during a speech honoring another. just my two cents.

LittleFigNewton said:

it's called personalizing. part of the training i got as a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence was to personalize as much as possible it makes it easier for people to relate to what is going on. that was totally appros for the type of speech it was. most funeral or memorials i've been to the people talking always were talking about their personal experience with the person that died more than the person

violetblues said:

I'm just wondering.... Can you do what she was doing on stage?
and on top of that she lost her brother 2 months ago and the song was sung by both her and MJ!!

ehuffnsd said:

michael was born in august of 1958. so was i. michael was raised in suburbs of the midwest. so was i. michael wiped his ass with his left hand. so do i.

it was the highest example of her own narcissism to date, lol. luckily, the last 4 minutes of the speech was so well written that i am only poking fun at her first 2 minutes. quite honestly though, only her sycophants would deny the narcissism of that speech. everyone i work with was making fun of it today because it was so obviously madonna talking about madonna for the first 2 minutes.
[Edited 9/14/09 18:26pm]

LittleFigNewton said:

i think she was trying to make him human. Madonna and Michael took two very different reactions to the media pressure they live/d under. One became a recluse the other continued to live her life. I think she was trying to establish a human connection to Michael. Madonna as a person is much more relateable becasue we know more about her. And yes there was a also the how can i wrap myself up in the whole thing but she was coming from a place of genuine care. She honored the man every night of her tour this year.

ehuffnsd said:

i'm not questioning her sincerity. i believe she made the most genuine, sincere comments of her entire career on that stage last night. her glassy eyes (from holding back tears) proved that to me. all i'm saying is, in true narcissist fashion, she was unable to honor another person without involving herself. she could have just as easily - and with as much effect - started that speech at the "michael and i went out one night" part, which didn't appear until 2 minutes in.

thing is we know her mom died and she's been obsessed about. we also know mj had no childhood and he was obsessed by that. what made her speech spectacular and genuine and moving was not her comparisons...it was her honesty over not being a close friend. it was her honesty about having dismissed him, moved on, passing judgment. the stuff about her...well, she just doesn't know how to talk about anything without connecting it to herself.

I thought Madonna's speech was good last night and I hadn't been keen
on her the last few years. Its clear why the media are bitching on
her though... because she said the stories surrounding Michael were a
witch hunt... well thats true. She also said she'd let him down,
something she didn't have to say but did and I applaud her for
admiting that to millions.

I liked Madonna's speech better than anything else.
If you are going to have someone like Madonna speak about anything, i would like to hear her take on it, not in a generic sense, to me it's much deeper, you understand where this person is coming from.

Some would like nothing better than a proclamation read from scrolled up parchment with a gold seal proclaiming his greatness.. with trumpets blaring and all.
It was nice, it was heartwarming and it was real. What more could you want?

She went out of her way to come and say something nice and people dogging her.

LittleFigNewton said:

the product of what she has lived in for 25+, to the empire that runs under her she is the Center of the Universe. Millions of people buy tickets to her shows and albums. You can't be famous without some form of narcissism. And it takes nerve to have someone call Madonna a Narcissist for honoring someone who is more or less the self declared King of Pop. Only Michael and Madonna know what it's like to have that kind of following.

violetblues said:

thank you! you worded that much better than i did.

ehuffnsd said:

agreed, except only Michael knew what it was like to have that kind of following. Madonna, Prince, Janet, Springsteen, they all have different levels of rabid fans, but Michael was on a level by himself as far as fame goes. He was and is the epitome of celebrity.

SEANMAN said:

we don't understand though. she was trying to bridge that gap since she lives her life as normal as she can with a few hundred photogs following her everywhere she goes.

SEANMAN said:

IA. That was one thing I didn't like. She doesn't completely understand his celebrity because only a Beatle or Elvis was at that level. It's like she was saying she was his peer when she's not. She's the Queen of Pop yes, but she didn't have his type of fame.

StillDirrty said:

yes she did and continues to have it. the difference was Madonna decided to live her life normally instead of hiding.

ehuffnsd said:

Yeah,Madonna was trying to humanize Michael,pointing that they had alot in common and that she understands the pressure he was under.He grew up without having a childhood and she grew up without a mother.They both went through most of their lives feeling like something was missing,longing for something that could never be given back to them.Madonna understood Michael,probably moreso than most of his celebrity pals.

I like how she pointed out that many people,including herself,"abandoned" Michael.Many of his so-called "friends" hadn't actually seen him in years.Brooke Shields spoke at his memorial but she had not hung out with him since 1991.Quincy Jones,Diana Ross.....everyone had moved on with their own life and didn't even know how much Michael was suffering."Sometimes we have to lose something before we can appreciate it",she said.In her speech,she said what many of us are feeling,whether we admit it or not.

ehuffnsd said:

I recall a Madonna interview where the topic of Marilyn Monroe came up.Madonna said "Marilyn was a victim,I'm not".What she means is that,she can deal with fame and success without self-destructing.Madonna has proven to be an extremely strong person in this regard.She hasn't let fame ruin her.No matter how much money and fame a person has,it's important to stay grounded and in touch with reality.

themusicthatcounts said:

Yeah,the part where she talked about people "abandoning him" when he was trying to build a family and rebuild his career...that part made me really sad People passing judgement on this man,without thinking about what he was going through.I'm sure it was painful for Madonna to say these things.If only we could back in time and help him (knowing what we know now),Michael might still be alive right now.

LittleFigNewton said:

No,I think it's great that she made those comparisons.The root of all Michael's problems started with his childhood.Growing up without a mother figure,Madonna could totally relate to that.She knows what Michael was feeling,what he was going through,and how a person could spend their entire life looking for something that can never be given back to them.It's not narcissist for her to mention those things.

ehuffnsd said:

She is famous, and no one is disputing that, but Michael Jackson, regardless, is on a level all his own. She can relate to some degree, but this man had grown men and women fainting at the sight of him, as if he were a deity. Her speech was wonderful, and she definately humanized him, but Michael had the kind of fame and non-anonimity that not even she could completely understand.

SEANMAN said:

"as if he were a deity"


And that was a huge problem right there.People treating him like he was more than human.I think that kind of fame ultimately destroyed Michael.No human being can live up to that kind of hype and those expectations,no matter how talented they are.Frankly,I don't want Madonna to reach that point.

SoulAlive said:

Frankly, she won't

midiscover said:

and that's a good thing

ehuffnsd said:

IMO no she didn't. Look at the list of top sellers of all time and see how far down she is in comparison to Elvis, The Beatles, and Michael.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ic_artists

She is not in their league. They all have inflated sales yes but those 3 are miles ahead. & she never had the hysteria around her that they did.
[Edited 9/15/09 8:42am]

StillDirrty said:

female artist never reach the sales of male artist because when you have half the population that won't by their records it's hard to move the units.

[Edited 9/16/09 21:37pm]

ehuffnsd said:

While that may be true there are plenty of legendary male artists who didn't sell that much either. They weren't that big.
[Edited 9/16/09 21:47pm]

StillDirrty said:

ok but you are the one that brought up the sales numbers my dear.

ehuffnsd said:

Yes, I did. To demonstrate why she wasn't at his level. Only those 3 artists had that type of success.