JoeTyler said:

Good tracklist,but I wouldn't choose the TIC versions of any songs Those edits weren't very good,imo.




The only essential song from the American Life era would be "Die Another Day".I wouldn't be too upset if that was the only AL-era song that made it onto this set.





That's exactly what they're gonna do The one-disc set will only include one new song ("Celebration").

...
[Edited 8/10/09 4:33am]

AlexdeParis said:

1. No, just because many of her singles in the UK debuted in the top 10 and freefell out of the chart, it does not make them "hits". Something like "Another Suitcase In Another Hall" or even "Hollywood" were far from being hits and they are among her lowest sellers, but they both reached the top 10.

2. It did NOT outperform "LIB"!!! Apart from the USA, "LIB" was a lot bigger even though it was a FIFTH single of an album, while "WTG" was the FIRST single and was NOT available on an LP. Saying "WTG" was bigger is ridiculous. I don't see why it has to be treated as something majestic because it was lucky enough to top both US and UK charts. Musically it had similarities and it was yet another Madonna song where she sang in Spanish. But it's "LIB" that is still played on concert, radio...

3. Because several of her songs still get a lot of spins and millions of audience impressions on AC stations. Listeners of that are more likely to buy a compilation, so the songs THEY hear should be on it. "WTG" or "TUTBMP" barely gets spins, but "TB" does well though. But current radio spins matter a lot more than 1987 or 1992 spins in a commercial point of view, that goes without saying.

VinnyM27 said:

If I'm not wrong, Prince's Hits has stuff that was not reused on Very Best or Ultimate. Also, his situation is different from Madonna's, only 10-15 years of Warner hits etc. Some of the Warner Prince studio albums are out of print.

I know it is absurd to hear about the death of TIC for longtime fans, but this is not the same era anymore. It's pointless to keep a compilation when you made an updated version of it. Labels are struggling and they have bigger concerns than keeping an album alive that proved to be a long seller for 15 years but does not do much anymore. There are only a handful of strong catalog sellers left, and unfortunately Madonna and Prince are not among them. Albums barely get certifications, TIC would have never got higher than 11x Platinum, none of her albums are selling decently either, not even COADF will reach 2x Platinum etc.

I doubt the single disc will be heavy of ROL-onwards stuff, they can only use:

Frozen
Ray Of Light
Music
Don't Tell Me
Die Another Day
Hung Up
4 Minutes

Of course between 1990 and 1998 there will only be "Take A Bow" most likely, so around 10 TIC tracks still can be used, but that would mean only 1 song from one of the 4 albums, because "Crazy For You", "Into The Groove" & "Vogue" are essential. Maybe "Express Yourself" won't make it?

JoeTyler said:

NO WAY! The Album version is way more danceable.

It's very unlikely that they'd use the original versions of LAP & EY. On iTunes even, LAP contains the 8 minute remix of "EY" instead of the Stephen Bray version, clearly being written out of her history!

LiveToTell86 said:

...which makes them top-10 hits by definition.


But I was talking about the USA, so yes, "Who's That Girl" outperformed it. ("Who's That Girl" was also significantly bigger in Italy FWIW.)


Show me. I want proof of these radio spins. And again, I thought you said the 2-disc compilation wasn't for the general public.

SoulAlive said:[quote]

JoeTyler said:

Somehow, I knew it

^But in the last 15 years, it was not a huge achievement for an established act to reach the UK top 10. In fact many acts had their top 10/20 consecutive runs broken in the past year, along with Madonna. Those records became irrelevant because the chart was not functioning properly and record labels kept manipulating it.

Still, it's a given that a first single would outperform a fifth, even during her peak years.

No, Vinny said the double disc was for the hardcore fans, I said the whole project was for casuals.

So, here are the spins from 2 weeks ago, by HolidayGuy at Madonna Nation (last week's might be posted later today, if it happens, will post that too):

1. Borderline: 698 (+132)- 2.945m
2. Into the Groove: 646 (-37)- 4.659m
3. Crazy For You: 615 (-1)- 3.248m
4. Holiday: 528 (-27)- 3.645m
5. Like a Prayer: 519 (-5)- 3.46m
6. Lucky Star: 364 (+54)- 2.751m
7. Open Your Heart: 319 (+42)- 2.263m
8. Vogue: 296 (+25)- 2.562m
9. La Isla Bonita: 253 (+47)- 1.918m
10. Don't Tell Me: 156 (-6)- .758m
11. Take a Bow: 146 (+5)- .814m
12. Music: 132 (-17)- .574m
13. This Used to Be My Playground: 131 (+131)- .362m (up from 0 to 125 at AC)
14. True Blue: 101 (-103)- .733m
15. Live to Tell: 101 (-27)- .598m
16. Papa Don't Preach: 90 (-14)- .561m
17. 4 Minutes: 86 (+3)- .262m
18. Cherish: 65 (-31)- .256m
19. Material Girl: 55 (-13)- .348m
20. Express Yourself: 44 (+1)- .304m
21. Dress You Up: 36 (-11)- .311m
22. Like a Virgin: 31 (-2)- .105m
23. Miles Away: 24 (+2)- .029m
24. I'll Remember: 22 (-3)- .05m
25. Hung Up: 19 (+2)- .035m
26. Give it 2 Me: 18 (+2)- .048m
27. Secret: 17 (-2)- .12m
28. Ray of Light: 12 (-2)- .044m
29. Jump: 8 (-7)- .013m
30. Who's That Girl: 8 (-2)- .027m
31. Angel: 7 (-)- .029m
32. Sorry: 6 (-1)- .008m
33. Causing a Commotion: 6 (+4)- .077m
34. Beautiful Stranger: 4 (-5)- .007m
35. Burning Up: 4 (-2)- .058m
36. Justify My Love: 4 (+2)- .014m
37. You Must Love Me: 2 (+1)- .004m
38. Get Together: 2 (+1)

Played 1x each: American Pie, Deeper and Deeper, Hollywood, Physical Attraction, Rain, What it Feels Like For a Girl, You'll See

"TUTBMP" was an anomaly because of that Delilah show, normally it's around a handful of spins.

As you can see, it's the majority of the TIC tracks + "DYU", "TB" and 3 post 1990 tracks, namely "TAB", "Music" & "DTM" that are considered as "classics" by radio. Unfortunately none of the ROL singles are notable for them...
[Edited 8/10/09 5:55am]

JoeTyler said:

That's almost exactly what I posted. The only real difference is you picked "La Isla Bonita" over "Papa Don't Preach." I'm with SoulAlive on the TIC versions, though.

AlexdeParis said:

Cool tracklist

I'd pick "Holiday" to lead it off."Borderline" and "Lucky Star" were bigger hits,but "Holiday" makes more sense,being that this collection is titled 'Celebration',lol.

Definitely "Die Another Day" over "American Life".

Even though I personally prefer "Erotica" over "Justify My Love",I would choose the latter song for this set.It's more well-known by the general public,was a bigger hit,and created quite a stir with its video.

LiveToTell86 said:

The songs in bold are the ones I said were mandatory for the 2-disc compilation and the songs in italics are the ones I said were highly recommended. They make up 32 of her top 36 played songs on radio today, which you claim is so important. Looks like you're trying to prove my point.

SoulAlive said:

"Borderline" is my favorite of the three, but I could see including any of them. My first preference would be to find room for at least 2 of them (if not all 3).


That would be my choice because I think it's a better song.


I greatly prefer "Justify My Love," but "Erotica" would fit almost as well. I just couldn't see them including both of them on a 1-disc collection.

AlexdeParis said:

Erm, the songs that are played less than 10 times a week are hardly relevant... Plus this does not include "Frozen", "The Power Of Good-Bye", "American Pie", "Die Another Day" anything from Erotica or Evita, so they cannot just use these.

And you gotta be kidding about "LIB" and "DTM" not being mandatory for a double disc...
[Edited 8/10/09 7:15am]

LiveToTell86 said:

Are you really saying that ROL and EY are more memorable or more important than Like A Prayer and Frozen? Like A Prayer is probably one of the most popular songs of Madonna ever (Express Yourself too but not like LAP) and well at least in Europe very few people remember Ray Of Light whereas everyone remembers Frozen.

-The only songs from True Blue that are still played in Europe is Papa Don't Preach and La Isla Bonita. I was living in 3 european countries the past 10 years and I never heard Open Your Heart, not even in 80s shows or clubs, The US really has strange taste. And simply Madonna cannot make a compilation just based on US sales or airplay because simply most of her fans are not in the US. The UK/European market is much more important and I am sure it would be taken into account much more than the US (let's face it if Madonna was famous only in the US she would have retired by now). So your data don't really mean much.
A single disc spanning through her career would possibly include just one songs from each album:
1.Holiday
2.Like A Virgin
3.Into The Groove
4.Papa Don't Preach
5.Who's That Girl or La Isla Bonita
6.Like A Prayer
7.Vogue
8.Justify My Love
9.Playground (in order to avoid having Erotica after Justify) or Erotica
10.Take A Bow or Secret (in order to avoid too many ballads in a row)
11.You'll See
12.You Must Love Me
13.Frozen or Ray Of Light (once again in order to avoid too many slow songs)
14.Music
15.Die Another Day or American Life (because DAD sounds like Music part II)
16.Hung Up
17.4 Minutes
18.Celebration
19.Revolver (maybe)
[Edited 8/10/09 7:46am]

jiorjios said:

When did I say they were more important than the other two?! I meant they are essential to her catalog, moreso than some of her #1s, namely "WTG" and "TUTBMP". But definitely not more than "LAP" or "Frozen", of course they are essential too, just that being #1 does not tell the full story.

"ROL" gets the biggest response on tours and it's remembered for getting all the acclaim. "Frozen" was the bigger hit but it's the title track that gathered her all the VMAs and Grammy's. I'm not saying that has to do with quality, but that definitely adds up to being remembered. Not to mention that she's been constantly performing "ROL" since 2005.

"LTT" and "OYH" are remembered for other aspects too, "LTT" being her first serious song, the CT controversy, "OYH" because of the video... I'm just saying these things put the songs ahead of songs that sold well or were played a lot back in the day. I also know it's not a "democratic" way how this "remembered" thing is executed, but it's something Warner acknowledges when they try to sell the compilation.

I see you added more to your post. Well yes, you're actually right, currently the UK/Euro market is more relevant to her, that's why the likes of "Sorry" & "Give It 2 Me" has to be included over something like "TUTBMP" or "I'll Remember" that didn't make much impact in Europe. But they cannot leave out "Take A Bow" though, because that was the biggest US hit for her during these years and is still played.

On the other hand, "4 Minutes" is one of her 2 best selling singles, so her US status is far from a tragedy.
[Edited 8/10/09 7:45am]

LiveToTell86 said:

-Yeah I like adding things. I don't disagree with what you say regarding the number 1s but I was talking about No 1s vs non-No 1s in the same era. If you compare different eras yes you are right of course EY is more popular than WTG

-Well I guess all the singles from True Blue are remembered for some reason (except the title track). But the controversy over the Open Your Heart video is not relevant any more and there was controversy also on the PDP and LIB videos

-4 Minutes' exceptional success in the US has much to do with Justin and Timbaland.

jiorjios said:

- No, I never meant #1s vs non-#1s in the same era, I meant in the context of her whole career. That's why being #1 does not tell the whole story decades after a song was out.

- I agree with you this, however, for a 34-track GH I still find "OYH" more relevant because of the reasons I mentioned over "Angel", "TB, "WTG, "TUTBMP", "IR", "YS" and even "American Pie"...

- I am aware of that, but "Hung Up" is also a Platinum single. I do know radio decided that Madonna is not a big name anymore, but she's still above certain other "hasbeens" in the US.

As for your tracklist, well you listed the biggest song from each of her eras, but I doubt it's gonna be this symmetric. Most of the 90s tracks will be taken away in favor of more 80s songs. I do think all 4 ROL and Music hits would be essential. "Die Another Day" not sure about, it wasn't THAT big... But I disagree about it being too similar to "Music", I certainly don't think it's a case of "LIB"-"WTG" or "JML"-"Erotica" where you can spot the formula.

LiveToTell86 said:

I love these arbitrary distinctions.


Of that list, only "Frozen," "Die Another Day," and "Erotica" should definitely make it.


Oh, I'd include "La Isla Bonita" for sure on the 2-disc version if it were up to me, but I could see them leaving off one of the True Blue hits (besides the title track). If that's the case, I think it'd get the boot before the other 3.

I also think "Don't Tell Me" should make the 2-disc version. It's one of her biggest hits of this decade.

^The arbitrary distinction was not meant literally, I could have said 10-20-30 spins. It doesn't take much to realize those at the bottom of the list are hardly in the same league as the 5-10-15 most played songs, even if technically they are indeed the "32 most played songs on radio".

Why not "TPOG" and "AP"? Those were big in Europe, much bigger than some of the older hits you suggest. Evita will be represented, plus we all know "Everybody" will be there and most likely another HC single. That's why I'm saying those 90s ballads will be the ones that get axed.

Not possible that "LIB" gets left off, it's one of her most performed and most popular songs. TB will have 4 singles on the 2CD and definitely "LIB" will be on the single CD as well.

Moonbeam said:

That sounds about right. Doesn't that intro sound quite a lot like another hit song's intro from 1983? I'm not going to say what I'm thinking. Just guess.

Mother and Father is becoming one of my favorite Madonna songs.

heartbeatocean said:

I thought that was one of the best parts of the re-invention tour, so good live. but my favorite from AL is I'm so stupid.

LiveToTell86 said:

I think your whole radio argument is silly based on a moment in time for one format is silly; I was just playing devil's advocate.


First of all, neither were bigger than "Who's That Girl." As far as "American Pie" goes, it's a cover and was a relative flop in the US. That should be enough to get it eliminated from this collection. I just don't think "The Power of Good-Bye" will make the cut, but I highly recommend it as it's my all-time favorite.


I don't think "Everybody" should make it because it's not a hit, but oh well. Evita may be represented by one song, but I hope not. As for Hard Candy, it'd be smart to only include "4 Minutes" since it's her most recent release and may have the most legs at retail in the next few years.


I hope you're right, but we shall see...

Moonbeam said:

It certainly seems likely.

SoulAlive said:

it was shelfed... because the studio didn't think it would do well

People, it's clear that Justify my love won't be included in the single Cd version, you know that...

AlexdeParis said:

- I know you are, I'm playing along.

- Well it's up for a debate whether "WTG" or "AP" was bigger in Europe, there were less markets in 1987, "AP" was a German #1 etc. But I wasn't referring to "WTG" this case, but the 90s ballads, that hold much less relevance from an EU point of view.

I think "TPOG" should be there because it really gave legs to ROL in Europe and would really look weird to only have 2 songs from one of Madonna's most famous and acclaimed albums/eras.

"AP" would not have been a relative US flop if there was a physical single issued. Remember in that era Mariah scored top 2 hits with much less airplay.

- Well, "Everybody" is confirmed to be on it, it was in the press release. It just shows they don't go with the chart formula only and they take other things in account. It's the single that started it all. And once again, nobody ever said this compilation was about "Madonna's biggest chart hits".

- It's impossible not to have anything from Evita, it's also an era of her career and 3 out of her 4 tours this decade had something Evita in them. "YMLM" is a very prominent thing on the current tour plus its lyrics are also on the album cover.

- Hard Candy has no legs whatsoever, with including more than just "4 Minutes", at least they could get some more attention.

JoeTyler said:

Yeah, that's for sure, it will have the safest possible choices. Not even sure if "Die Another Day" is going to be there...

LiveToTell86 said:

so was WTG.

but anyway, I remember AP being played A LOT, and I was no M fan back then, in early 2000...

heartbeatocean said:

It's my favorite from the album and one of my favorites, too!