ehuffnsd said:

She wasn't 50+ then. Besides, what's wrong with it anyway? It's just a simile.


It's much better than those two IMO. It's one of her 3 best songs of the '80s to me and one of her best overall.

AlexdeParis said:

The Holiday Collection was a "for the fans" release and was the extension of the "Holiday" re-release. It's been out of print for ages now yet TIC went onto become the biggest selling female compilation, without "WTG" and "TB.

"TUTBMP" did not make it on GHV2 because Madonna herself does not like it (or at least that's how she felt in 2001). You're making assumptions that plenty of people "would like to be reminded of", based on your own feelings towards the song. It's always like that.

LiveToTell86 said:

i think TUTBMP was left off GHV2 to ensure people who wanted it picked up Something To Remember.

LiveToTell86 said:

And? I don't see your point.


No, my assumption was based on the law of averages, which is definitely more likely than your assertion that "nobody" remembers it.
See what I did there? I made an absolute statement contending that my general statement is more likely than your absolute.

how do we know this is the cover for the GH and not the single?

superspaceboy said:

Are you still on the first post? Catch up! The single and album covers are done deals (unless the physical single has a different cover, but I highly doubt that). The graffiti cover has been confirmed everywhere. Now the track listing we are still working on.

For LivetoTell86, it no matter what the criteria of the double discs set (changed the world or not), it is clear that the two disc set is for hardcore and the single disc will likely be the one that is pushed the same way "The Immaculate Collection" was. The double disc set is for the hardcores.

Also. I would be really surprised if "The Immaculate Collection" goes out of print tomorrow. After all, the Eagles Greatest Hits from their first few years is still in print (it's supposedly the biggest selling US album although that's probably changed) even though a few years ago they released a two disc set basically doing what "Celebration" did for TIC and GHV2. Since GHV2 was not a huge seller and had no new songs, or interesting arrangements, it might go out of print.
[Edited 8/9/09 15:35pm]

VinnyM27 said:

since IC is her highest selling album i doubt it's being deleted this is the first i've ever heard that.

VinnyM27 said:

I know it was just a typo, but still...

Anyway, I'll take a stab at what I think would be the best tracklist for the single-disc version.

1. Lucky Star or Borderline or Holiday
2. Like a Virgin
3. Material Girl
4. Into the Groove
5. Live to Tell
6. Papa Don't Preach
7. Like a Prayer
8. Express Yourself
9. Vogue
10. Justify My Love or Erotica
11. Take a Bow
12. Frozen
13. Ray of Light
14. Music
15. Die Another Day or American Life
16. Hung Up
17. 4 Minutes

That's much tougher. A 1-disc retrospective of Madonna's entire career is just silly. The ones in italics would be likely casualties if there isn't enough room with the new songs.
[Edited 8/9/09 14:05pm]

ehuffnsd said:

When GHV2 came out, STR was not a strong seller anymore. For something like "You'll See", that argument stands, but Madonna explicitly stated that she only included songs she liked, not the biggest hits. 4 out of 15 tracks were not hits at all. When Jo Whiley asked about "TUTBMP", she said an "ugh" or something like that, but for "Fever", she "liked it alright".

AlexdeParis said:

It doesn't change the fact that you keep on insisting the inclusion of this song because it's a personal favourite of yours. The same discussion has been going on among fans with "True Blue", "Who's That Girl" & "American Pie".

And no, I don't dislike the track, but to me it's a given that it's not in the same league as "Vogue" or "ROL" or "Music" etc, therefore it's not as essential as you make it out to be.

VinnyM27 said:

No, the reason why there are two edition is that Warner knows many casual fans would only buy a single disc, no matter if it can only contain 18 songs. It's happening with MJ already, most people only go for the single disc Number Ones compilation even though The Essential MJ contains 99% of his hits.

The double CD will also have the biggest hits, for example there will be no room to include 4 singles from Madonna & TB and 3 from LAP on the single disc, but on the double, they will comfortably fit. Most likely the single disc will be just selections from the double CD (Celine's compilation from last year was like this, and sales are combined).

There are already steps made to ensure Celebration is the definitive Madonna GH: on iTunes, TIC and GHV2 is already removed, except the US, where TIC is still there. TIC DVD is already out of print and now Amazon.com lists True Blue as discontinued. Supposedly Something To Remember will follow as well.

The Eagles is quite a different case, it's still the best selling US album and sold almost 3 times as much as TIC. The TIC sales kinda collapsed in the last 2 years and Warner knows these CDs are not selling well anymore, so they probably made a decision and will not sell TIC anymore to make sure people pick Celebration up instead. Also, most likely everything from TIC except "Rescue Me" will appear on the double set of Celebration, which makes TIC redundant in the eyes of a record label. Not that Celebration will be a big seller, but they want the money now, instead in the future, when even less CDs will be sold.

LiveToTell86 said:

If you consider her 2 biggest markets, all 15 of the GHV2 tracks were hits. As for the USA, only 2 of the 14 singles released here failed to make the top 40 (and barely at that).


No, you're just assuming that. I'm insisting on the inclusion of "Who's That Girl" because it was a #1 smash in both the US and UK and it has yet to be included on an official Madonna album. That's not the kind of song you leave off a 2-disc career retrospective. You'll notice I did leave it off my 1-disc tracklist for plenty of songs I like less.


I never said it was in the same league as those songs. The songs I labelled as essential were the ones that were the most successful. Hell, I called "Erotica," "Playground," and "4 Minutes" essential and none of them made my Madonna top 50!

And FWIW, I prefer "Who's That Girl" over all three of the songs you listed (but they're all in my top 20).

LiveToTell86 said:

Well it's kinda obvious that Playground, You'll See and I'll Remember were left out to save Something To Remember. Madonna said she chose the songs she likes I know. But what did u expected here to say? I guess something like Hey I chose those songs so you will still go and buy my old compilation so I can make some more cash out of you? Come on now




I think she should include most of her number 1s because they were among her biggest hits and the biggest representatives of her music at the time of their release. She could leave behind True Blue and Open Your Heart (because all her singles from True Blue went to No. 1 in the UK or the US and those two are the least impressive) and American Pie (because it's a cover and I hate it but it is not my taste we talk about here). But all the other UK and US No.1s should be there (I doubt they will be)

[quote]

VinnyM27 said:

Both cds are for the casual fan. The single cd version is just for the stingy casual fan. A hardcore fan would be more satisfied with a cd containing Gambler, the two new songs and all her b-sides and non-album tracks.We have everything else already anyway. Either that or the single version will be something like GHV3 with very few songs from before 2002 included

.
That probably is only temporary. As long as those albums include a big hit that is not availlable anywhere else they will be availlable to purchase. They just took it off for now for people to focus on Celebration. The TIC DVD is given away with a newspaper here for 4 euros extra and the same happened in Greece a couple of months ago
[Edited 8/9/09 16:40pm]

AlexdeParis:

- I guess you mean the US and UK. Well, "Bedtime Story", "WIFLFAG", "Human Nature" and "Drowned World" were NOT hits there. And don't say "but they all went to top 10 in the UK" because 61 out of her 67 singles went to the UK top 10, but it would be ridiculous to say she has 61 hits. And just because "WIFLFAG" went #23, it was hardly a hit. In the UK it quickly fell of the chart too. Actually even "Miles Away" was bigger than any of these songs simply because it sold 800,000 downloads in Japan!!

- Since when is the Who's That Girl OST not an official M album? And like I said, it was a hit in 1987 but in 2009 there are more factors than that. WTG went to #1 because it rode the coattails of "La Isla Bonita", the tracks share a lot of similarities. And while it was a #1 in several countries, it's hardly one of her best selling hits, it sold less than TB for example.
If only chart positions mattered, then something like "Holiday" would only come after her 37 US top 10 hits, therefore not being able to fit onto the CD! It doesn't work like that.

- But weren't you insisting on "...Playground"? Sorry got confused a bit here. Out of the two, I'd definitely go with "WTG" of course. I'd even put "TB" before the 90s ballads.

jiorjios said:

- To be fair, Warner forced out GHV2 so they must not have cared enough about the catalog sales of studio albums. Madonna also managed not to include "American Pie" even though that was a #1 hit all over the world just a year before. That project was a stupid argument between Madonna and her label, but if she dislikes a song of hers, she would not lie about that...

- Her #1s are not the biggest representatives of her music, see "Ray Of Light" or "Express Yourself". There are fans like us who want to see all #1s included, but for the general public, they only want the songs THEY know and that most likely does not include all of her #1s, but does include some other songs.

- "Open Your Heart" is still her 7th most played song in the US and its video is very famous. Totally a different league from "TB" or "WTG" and NOT because it went to #1.

- True Blue might be temporary, but TIC and GHV2 definitely not. In 2009-2010, there won't be a point for a "comeback" of those albums. We can't know what's Warner gonna do with her catalog, but I can't see them trying to sell the old albums again.

LiveToTell86 said:

I fail to see what's so ridiculous about it. If 61 singles make the top 10, that's 61 hits.


Well, that'd be true in Japan. In the US & UK, all of those songs were bigger hits than "Miles Away."


Um, since more than half the songs don't feature Madonna at all.


"Rode the coattails" of "La Isla Bonita"? It outperformed it! "Who's That Girl" is one of her surprisingly few songs to top both the US & UK charts. As for sales, "True Blue" also outsold "Material Girl" and "Live to Tell," so I don't get your point. I already mentioned why "Holiday" is essential; it was her breakthrough single, reaching the top 20 for the first time.


Yes, you are confused. Here's what I'm saying: Madonna has 30+ huge hits and a long career. On a single-disc compilation, plenty of worthy songs are going to be left out. However, on a double-disc compilation, WB has the opportunity to collect all of her biggest hits and paint an accurate picture of her career successes. Omitting transatlantic #1 singles when you have 2 discs to fill does her legacy a disservice IMO.


But even assuming that last statement is true (and I don't know if it is), wasn't your argument that the 2-disc version wasn't for "the general public"?

I haven't heard TUTBMP on the radio in years so I don't see why it should be included, go for the hits people know, even if that leaves out some #1. For example Into the Groove never hit no 1 in America, but Its one of the 5 madonna songs I regularly hear on the radio. here in MN all I hear of hers on the radio is:
Don't Tell me
Like a Prayer
Into the Groove
Borderline
Holiday

thus I think they are essential for good sales.
now you have to add in the Iconic songs:
Vogue
Who's That Girl
Like a Virgin
Hung Up
and her most known to the young audience
4 Min
the first single
Everybody
and sprinkle in other big hits and that is your package.

Question for fans:

I've read on Wikipedia that the Madonna filmed her performance of "Gambler" used in the video on November 22, 1983. I know Wikipedia isn't reliable, so I thought I'd ask here if there is any validity to it. If so, was it recorded before Like a Virgin? That may be why I like it so much.

RKJCNE said:

First of all, "Into the Groove" wasn't even released in America. Chances are it may have topped the chart if it had had its own single.

Secondly, I'm not understanding why everyone keeps bringing up what songs they hear on the radio now. Radio is almost a complete joke at this point thanks to Clear Channel and even if it weren't, it's not like you can speak for more than a handful of stations in a handful of areas.

Moonbeam said:

It's highly possible. Jellybean was the producer. Also, some movies are filmed long before their release and I wouldn't be all that surprised if that film sat on a shelf and Madonna's new found stardom was one of the factors that got it released (and/or sold it). Also, it would be a surprise if Sire/WB signed off on the Geffen deal after "Like A Virgin".

VinnyM27 said:

It's strange thinking of "Crazy for You" and "Gambler" possibly predating the Like a Virgin album.

RKJCNE said:

Into the Groove was never a single in the US, it was the bside to Angel and in Desperately Seeking Susan.

Again I think talk of "The Immaculate Collection" going out of print is absurd. yes, The record business is doing lousy but to make Madonna's biggest selling set out of print is absurd. It might not affect their bottom line that much, but why in the heck would they just refuse something like that? I think that even though it might have a lot of over lap, it would be crazy to eliminate the 80s collection of the one of the most popular artists of the eighties. "Celebration", even the single disc, will be very heavy on "Ray of Light" and everything after. This might not please everyone that remembers Madonna as an eighties artist. Prince's "Hits 1" and "Hits 2" are still in print and available everywhere, and causal fans are much better served by the prior collections that were released!

I also believe that making "True Blue" out of print is only temporary. It might come back at a lower price (like much of Madonna's 90s back catalog...bought "Bedtime Stories" at Borders for only $5.99 and Borders ain't cheap. They often go buy suggested retail prices with some modest sales for music (and sadly their music stock has been drastically cut at the one I visited).

Moonbeam said:

Vision Quest filmed in 83, before even she broke the top 10.

Moonbeam said:

That's like running your fingers backward over my eyebrows.

I just think of it as roughly the same era as Like A Virgin.

ehuffnsd said:

So strange! "Crazy for You" and "Gambler" date to 1983, then. I love it, because it validates why I like "Gambler" so much despite not loving Like a Virgin. When was "Into the Groove" recorded?

Cinnie said:

It is rather earth-shattering, isn't it?

Moonbeam said:

Let's just say it was the 1983-1984 school year.

Moonbeam said:

Into the Groove would probably date from the LAV era. It was the first track for WB she coproduced and green lighted her being able take the production helm of her next album.

ehuffnsd said:

Good going, stranger

ehuffnsd said:

It seems like,back in the day,movies were filmed a long time before they were actually released.I don't know,it may still be this way (lol) but it just seems like,back then,a movie would be filmed and not released until a year or more later.

I know that "Grease" was filmed in the summer of '77,but wasn't released until a full year later (summer '78).With 'Vision Quest',it probably made sense that the movie was delayed until 1985.By that time,Madonna was a huge star so they were able to capitalize on that ("Crazy For You" was a massive hit).

Excuse my off-topic ramblings,lol.

SoulAlive said:

I think this thread serves as a general purpose Madonna sticky.

My head is still spinning thinking of "Gambler" being recorded in 1983.

I'm so tired of all this (healthy, funny) discussion about the tracklist of the 2CD version (which won't be perfect, of course) that I'm gonna make my own version of what the single CD should be:

1.Celebration
2.Material Girl
3.Ray of light (edit)
4.Express Yourself (original version)
5.Borderline
6.Like a virgin
7.Vogue
8.La isla bonita
9.Live to tell (original version)
10.Erotica (edit)
11.Into the grove (original version)
12.Take a bow (edit)
13.Holiday (TIC version)
14.Like a prayer (TIC version)
15.Frozen (edit)
16.Music
17.Hung Up (edit)
18.4 Minutes


Yes, no songs from the American Life era (a truly ugly era, by the way, in terms of fame and hits ), and no Revolver (which should be included only for the 2CD version, as a bait for the hardcore fan )