I know people are sick of the Jackson topics, but I thought for once, we can have an interesting discussion.

I can relate to the Velvet Rope album very much and it was perfect for my teen angst when it came out, but as a woman I can still relate to the album too even though people have written deeper lyrics before and after.

I thought about how a lot of people on the org say that everyone had depression in the 90's and it affected music as a whole. I remember Janet saying in Rolling Stone 1993 that she sings and writes about how she feels and that if she's feeling depressed, she will write about that too. And oddly enough, Velvet Rope was her next main release and the main topic of discussion aside from her tattoos, piercings, sexuality and coffee enemas was her depression.

So my question to you is, do you believe she was really depressed or cashing in on common themes in music at the time? I remember people were dogging her saying she was only pretending and saying stupid things like she can't be depressed, she's Janet Jackson and rich, but I found that it's only been for the past 10 years people are more sympathetic to celebs who are down. Britney got a lot of sympathy despite being dogged in the media, that's just an example.

I personally believe she was down and the stuff she described about not getting up and randomly crying and nearly being tearful in interviews was real. But I also remember she was defensive on Oprah and saying she was not clinically depressed and never went on medication, but she seemed to have healed in the public eye from it on her own. I find that so motivating that she did it without pills, but even during All For You, I could tell she was down and I could sense from how she talks that she's anxious and avoidant and I used to wonder why she was like that and how other celebs were more outgoing, but I just knew she wasn't doing it to be rude or having a big head about it.

I don't know why people would think that just because she's rich and famous she shouldn't be depressed. Celebrities should be some of the most depressed people on the planet because: 1) they have little to no real privacy (all the money in the world wouldn't make me want to give up my privacy); and, 2) their jobs revolve around people liking them, which I think sucks because I, personally, hate pleasing people; just makes me feel dirty, fake, and causes some self-hate to rise up within me. I get pissed when I have to fake being nice to the many asshole clients that come to our office everyday, but, luckily for me, I don't really have to worry all that much about them really liking me to get paid so that takes away some of the stress.

Personally, I think her very secretive marriage to Rene Elizondo during that time would definitely have caused her some depression. Nobody found out that they were married until they got divorced. I also think that she was going through a transitional phase during the VR days and she just wanted to try a different sound and deeper lyrical content than her previous releases. Personally, I love the VR album. I remember when she refused to do that fashion show if they didn't allow her to perform 'What About?' and of course they gave in. That song alone makes the VR album worth listening to...such a phenomenal and empowering song.

If Janet got over any type of depression without having to take medications or doing questionable behavior publicly (like Britney), than that's outstanding because it's not easy to get over being depressed. Janet has always seemed like the most grounded, level-headed one out of the entire Jackson family in my opinion. She knows how to keep her personal life private. I don't want to know where she is every hour of the day and what she's doing every 10 minutes, but many celebrities nowadays seem to really thrive off of the attention which I find to be extremely sad and pathetic to an extent. If they have to resort to doing ridiculous things in public to keep the public's attention, than are they really as great as they want everybody to think they are? Compared to some artists, Janet seems to have remained somewhat humble and is far from being an attention-hungry, media whore which is why I will continue to buy her albums, even if they aren't all that amazing. I really hope she makes another album like VR at some point. Just my

I agree with every word, and yeah I agree that she is very level-headed and there is nothing to talk about when it comes to her, so they focus on her weight and ribs and whatnot.

I admire her for having strength and getting through what she went through. And I agree that a lot of celebs get depressed cause they get into the industry for wrong reasons. Most get into it cause they look for validation from the public and if the media is cruel to them it can break them if they don't have a thick skin.

alphastreet said:

I agree. She is soo private that the only thing that the media can ever focus on is her weight issues. I've heard that she suffers from hypothyroidism. I don't know how true that is, but if she does have that condition and is still able to get a six pack after working out and eating healthy for less than 4 months, than that's outstanding. People commend celebrities for losing the baby weight quickly, but they have personal trainers and personal chefs helping them, so I don't always understand why they get praised. Who can't lose weight when you are paying professionals to help you? Just like why shouldn't you look at least decent when you are paying a professional stylist and make-up artists?

Now, losing weight with a messed up thyroid is a totally different matter all together. If your thyroid isn't working properly, than you're weight is going to be affected no matter how much you eat or exercise. It's just as hard for someone suffering from hypothyroidism to lose weight as a women who has had several children and usually people with thyroid problems have to take medications to regulate their thyroids. Hypothyroidism decreases your metabolism, so you gain weight quickly and often suffer from fatique. If she truly does have this condition and is still able to get the most famous abs in the world, than that's absolutely amazing.

I used to feel sorry for celebrities and blame the media for their problems, until I heard several stories that many of them were actually calling the paparazzi and telling them their location and the time they would be there. Plus, it's part of their job, so if they aren't smart enough to realize that when they sign the contract than that's on them. They can't play naive forever. At some point, either they grow up and get a clue, or they remain clueless and get ripped apart and have a nervous breakdown at some point. If you don't better your skills, than you're going to get criticized and eventually rejected. When you break it down to that simple ideology, their 'job' (which is all it is) really isn't that much different from any other job in the world.

Part of my job consists of handling feces, urine, and blood, and seeing vomit, which I don't like at all, but it's part of the job. Their job is to entertain the public and if they allow their personal lives to intersect with their professional lives, that's on them. There have been lots of celebrities who are able to remain discreet when they aren't promoting an album or movie, so I don't have any sympathy for the Britney's, Lindsey Lohan's, and Paris' of the celebrity world because no matter how much they complain, I know that if they didn't have the attention, they would probably shrivel up and die. Some people like attention and some people live for attention, no matter how negative it may be; I call those people 'DFAs', "Desperate For Attention". I have several friends who fit into this category. I often refer to them as 'DFAs' or 'Drama Queens' and they usually are the ones who bring the drama on themselves. If a person brings misfortune on themselves by doing dumb things, I don't understand why anybody feels sorry for them, but that's just my .

i don't buy that she get out of it without therapy. i try for 6 years to get out of my depression alone and didn't get anywhere.

however the album means alot me from growing up and now.

ehuffnsd said:

The album was really different from her previous albums and it was actually really good and inspiring. That album is what keeps me a fan of hers to this day, even amidst her newer, lackluster releases.. If she was able to make an album like that, I know that she has it in her to make something else just as good.

for Ehuffnsd. My mom suffered from severe depression for years when I was a pre-teen, so I've seen what depression does to people and those who love them. It's very hard to watch someone go through what seems like unending sadness and not know how to help them. My mom checked herself into mental hospitals several times before I turned 18 and I commend her to this day for doing it on her own. She showed me what true courage really is. She's the strongest person I know and if I can be half the woman she is, I think I'm doing a great job. Ahh, mom.

estelle81 said:

it's rough and the recovery seems slow but i'm getting through.

i just really love this album.

i have a necklace i got from Miss-Janet back in 97 or 98 with the Sankofa on it that wear everytime i go out as Sister Iona.
[Edited 6/10/09 18:19pm]

That album was probably her best second only to "Rhythm Nation" for me ("Control" however does tie for second place I admit). In some of the songs, she actually did help in encouraging me (to be myself). With the title track and "Special" I thought she was singing to me personally. So in a way, it stopped them from feeling bad about myself though I'm sure I had a depression moment around that time period.

All I know is I "broke up" with someone when I Get So Lonely was out. I listened to that song and cried like a baby for what seems like forever.

1. "Interlude: Twisted Elegance" Great Intro
2. "Velvet Rope" Wear I am now, trying to find my place where I feel special. Where I was at 16 when this album came out and I was struggling to find my identity
3. "You" Kinda like above, also what I say to my brother
4. "Got 'Til It's Gone" Makes me think of family, my first love who died, my ex, the guy I've been dating who is also dealing with depression right now.
5. "Interlude: Speaker Phone"
6. "My Need" reminds me of that i need myself as a whole person
7. "Interlude: Fasten Your Seatbelts"
8. "Go Deep" gotta go out and have fun two while dealing with all of this
9. "Free Xone"this song helped me be ok with being gay at 16
10. "Interlude: Memory"
11. "Together Again" my maternal grandparents, and my first love
12. "Interlude: Online"
13. "Empty" Reminds me of all of relationships here on the org and than also how so much of life anymore circles around the internet.
14. "Interlude: Full"
15. "What About" abusive childhood, abusive relationships
16. "Every Time" the guy i've been dating some of my past loves.
17. "Tonight's the Night" same as above
18. "I Get Lonely" the guy i've been dating who's dealing with his depression by isolating from everyone he knows
19. "Rope Burn" my involvement in the BDSM/Leather/Kink communities
20. "Anything" see 16 and 17
21. "Interlude: Sad"
22. "Special"/"Can't Be Stopped" see number 1
[Edited 6/10/09 18:32pm]

ehuffnsd said:

I wish you all the happiness in the world and great success in your recovery. When I was a child, my mom would always tell me that you have to love yourself before you can truly love others. I never thought about what it actually meant until I was older and really understood how hard it is to be genuinely happy with yourself; and, how much goes into the process of discovering your own personal happiness. You'll find your personal happiness and it will overshadow the depression, so don't give up. Good things come to those who wait as the old saying goes.

she had them dial up internetz skits to help her thru it

ehuffnsd said:

oh word?

estelle81 said:

thanks.

Cinnie said:

where have you been? i always post about my trips to IML, Folsom Street, and the time i was approached by a certain studio to fetish type educational films.

well not clinically depressed but it's not unreasonable that she was down and had a deep sadness for a variety of reasons. and if you remember she didn't get thru it alone. There was an older man who she went to just to talk things out with i do believe.

I have a bias for the album because it's so easy to relate to the themes and it really helped me when I was on the road to coming into my ownself with love. and the album still helps with that all these years later after it's release.

Vendetta1 said:

The song that still makes me cry everytime I hear it is the "Together Again" (Jimmy Jam Deeper Radio Edit):



It makes me think about my grandpa, who I still feel I was the most connected to. He died when I was 10 and all my memories of him only contain great moments and real happiness. Was he gone to soon or was I born to late? Okay, happy thoughts.

I wish she had put "Accept Me" on the album because I really like that song. Really positive and inspiring.

ehuffnsd said:

Yeah Depression is NO JOKE, that was a dark period for Janet! A lotta child hood issues were getting to her. Janet self medicated and still does, like majority of the stars do, she is just down low with it. Janet just hold shit in and keep secrets for years, until she's on the verge of a nervous breakdown. That pain comes out in her music.

Her ego is bruised now because she can't get her career back on track! Mr. Midget ain't helping the situation none. Jermaine can write all these hits for other stars but no hits for his lady?

Janet is freaky as hell telling Oprah were all her private piercing was!
[Edited 6/10/09 20:00pm]

Chic35 said:

Honestly, I think that Jermaine, AKA the gap-toothed, chocolate troll, is hoping that Janet will stop doing albums, marry him, and pop out his scary half-troll lookin' babies. Janet, don't do it, girl!!!

As shy as Janet comes off in interviews, I have no doubt that Ms. Jackson is freaky. Some of her song lyrics are like and leave you saying, "What did she just say?!?!?" Janet can shock the hell out of you by using the must subtle tone with that soft voice of hers. She could totally be all 'Girl 6' and make it as a phone sex operator.

This album is a masterpiece!

Chic35 said:

Quite frankly I think the whole Jackson clan, with probably the exception of Rebbie are probably suffering or have suffered with clinical depression. Didn't Latoya once say(although you can't believe everything she says) that one of her siblings tried to committ suicide several times? She didn't say which sibling but lets face it, it could be any of them.

^ I don't know why but I thought of Jermaine or Randy when I read that, though she may have been talking about herself too.

I was down too when the album came out and could relate to so much of it, cause my grandpa passed shortly after Together Again was released, and I was always feeling lonely and questioning my self-worth and still am 12 years later. I liked reading her interviews too and though depression was something I didn't hear of before this, reading about how she got through it and was strong was very inspiring, but I've gotten worse since and now am realizing that I have to have a thick skin and really love myself to survive in this world.

I remember the last big discussion we had with this album and I never payed this thing any mind and that discussion changed my view totally to the point that I think it's actually an important album.

I thought it was so deep and inspirational and I wanted everyone to have the album, cause most people my age were into the boybands and teen pop, or r&b/hip hop and would shrug janet off though some had the together again or i get lonely singles though not the album. They were being so mean to her saying mean things about her red hair, or calling her bi, or saying she's just ok as if to discredit all the great things she did before, or saying ew her boobs are big or ew she has a tattoo, it was so stupid of them, and years later, they are all acting the same and dying to have red hair. I think the concept of the album and her image associated with it was too ahead of it's time. I ended up going to her show with my cousin and her friend who were in their early 20's at the time (I was like 14/15) who actually appreciated and understood janet, I could relate to them more and I'm finding today that I prefer the company of people in their 30's more than 20's and could relate to them better in many ways, with music, with insight to life and everything.
[Edited 6/11/09 10:11am]

alphastreet said:

I think at the time I was doing PJ Harvey I dismissed this album nearly completely til that last discussion went back and was blown the fuck away. I have to give JJ props on this one

I was mostly into r&b/hip hop at the time too, as well as dance electronica and the spice girls a little bit though it was mostly cause their songs were catchy and at the time made me think of mj and janet

alphastreet said:

This is where Janet lost me. Now I can't stand/could care less about her. Her music is dead to me. She needs a revolution or hang up the tired act.

I agree she got too repetitive with her music, but she still had strong album tracks on her last three albums though they were no velvet rope. I really really loved Discipline too and wish it did better than it did, but a year later and I don't really feel like listening to the album though I still like it. I could pop in RN or Janet anytime though and not be sick of it. Same with VR though I find now that I really have to be in the mood for it to really enjoy it.

alphastreet said:

I'm a lyrics person. Always have been. Not sure why I never connected with this album as I know I was depressed as hell back then.

Wait I'm confused, you didn't connect with VR or Discipline?