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PrintableSwa said: midnightmover said: This is illogical. If he's trying to be a perfectionist, then why why would he sing anything live at all? Why on the Bad Tour did he only mime two songs? If perfectionism was the goal, then why only make two songs "perfect"? And you are still clinging to the discredited idea that he only mimes because he's dancing. You said... "Personally I don't agree with the whole lipsynching thing. And would rather have Michael sing and stand still than bother about elaborate dance routines." But there are no dance routines in "Heal The World" and "You Are Not Alone" yet he mimes them. By contrast, there's a lot of dancing in "Wanna Be Starting Something", yet he sings that live. Surely you can see that these facts DEMOLISH your theory about him miming because of heavy dancing. You're also ignoring the fact that MIchael's live vocals have declined over the years. Each tour he sounded worse and each tour had more miming. Is it just a coincidence that the increase in miming coincided with a decrease in the quality of his live vocals? Please think. [Edited 6/17/09 10:31am] Actually, I think you missed some points of my post, so let me re-iterate. I was agreeing with you that there has been increased lipsynching. I was just offering a different point of view, something that is key to debate. For you to dismiss outright and call it illogical is actually disrespectful. So to continue the debate... In the concerts I have personally seen including the 2 shows in the BAD tour (which for my shows at the beginning of the leg were 100% live) and the 3 shows in the History tour (which for my shows were about 40% live / 60% lipsynched). Now this doesn't mean that the ratio didn't increase or decrease as the tour progressed, as others can attest to this. I'm just establishing my own terms of reference. First off, if you read my post I said initially I think the lipsynching was due to the dance routines, but that Michael became more reliant on them as tours progressed due to a perfectionist streak. I was not saying he only uses them for dance numbers now days. Of course, the counter argument of his voice being shot is also mute as, as you have pointed out repeatedly, he does sing some portions of the show live, and from the shows I saw his vocal ability was still there, the guy could still sing. Have Michael's vocals deteriorated over the years, I think the answer is yes somewhat (and this is true with most artists), but to the extent to which you are saying it is shot and he can't sing, I don't agree. Unfortunately unless Michael sings the upcoming shows 100% live (which I think we all agree won't be the case), we won't really be able to resolve the whole issue to complete satisfaction. I think the truth of why he lipsynchs is probably a mix of both points of view, a lessening in his voice, and his desire (and pressure) to give a perfect show each time. I respect your point of view on this, and if I don't agree 100% I still respect that it is a considered argument. Maybe it's a matter of agree to disagree. Swa You just dodged absolutely every point, and backed away from some of your own implied statements. You said you disgreed with lipsynching and would much prefer if he sang live and did less dancing, which was clearly implying that there was some choice between dancing and singing. A lie by implication. It's also a lie to say he started miming because of the dancing. In actual fact, one of the two songs he mimed on the Bad Tour was the first half of "Man In The Mirror", which features virtually no dancing.  The only real dancing in the first half of that song takes place when he's not singing. So if he was only doing it because of the dancing, then why did he sing almost all the intensive dance songs live and mime a song that features nowhere near as much dancing? Can you not see how illogical this is? (btw, the other song he mimed, TWYMMF, also didn't feature so much dancing even though it's an uptempo song)
You've admitted that his voice declined (hallelujah!), but it's misleading to say this happens to most artists. Michael's decline started when he was 29 and is far, far worse than any other singer I've ever heard (and I've heard most of the greats). Try and find footage of Ray Charles, Marvin Gaye, or Gladys Knight singing as badly as MJ did on the History Tour, or even the Dangerous Tour. You won't find it. Most singers start declining in their fifties or late forties at the earliest, and even then they don't lose it remotely as much as Michael has. We could easily flood this thread with footage of great vocal performances given by people in their 50s. I'm glad to hear you're admitting that his lip synching increased as each tour progressed, but strangely, you've offered no explanation for this. If you listen to the tapes you'll hear that the singing got worse as each tour progressed. It's not just a case of this happening between tours, but actually within tours as well. What's your take on that? Is it just a coincidence that the voice got worse and the miming increased? And you are burying your head in the sand about his live vocals on the History Tour. Most of it was SO AWFUL that fans have not put the footage up on Youtube because of how embarrassing it was. In spite of this, I was able to find two live clips (from MSG 2001 and History 1996) which showed quite clearly how TERRIBLE his live vocals were (you ignored that, surprise, surprise). And bear in mind those clips are nowhere near as bad as the ones fans are hiding. I suggest you get a copy of the concert from Germany. It was brilliantly filmed and broadcast to millions in Europe. The fact that only the mimed sections of it have been put on Youtube gives you a clue as to how ATROCIOUS his singing was that night (and no, it was not an isolated occasion). [Edited 6/18/09 5:08am] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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seeingvoices12 said: midnightmover said: This post basically says it all. The sad thing is you will never know how laughable posts like this are.
Ridiculous Irrelevant response, or you didn’t know what or how to respond ?  I didn’t know that you are god who knows everything and always right and everyone else is wrong , I think you should go with the advice I posted in the last of my previous point, waste your time on positive things please.Dude, it's not even worth explaining to you how stupid the post is because I know that you are incapable of understanding. The truth is, I'm flattering you by even addressing you at all. Count yourself lucky. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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unique said: thesexofit said: Seeing Jackson now is like seeing fat Elvis. BUT, like when Elvis was fat, Mike still has loads of fans and I woulda still loved to of seen him. Prefer new music mind, and definately something more eccentric like "little suzie" or slushy like "childhood", as I know its those songs Mike really loves to do, but even modern rnb songs I'd be cool with. Just anything new!
Mike, your legacy is secured man, just release something LOL. i've compared MJ to elvis in the same way before, seeing fat elvis or MJ now is something that many people would do whether they liked them for thier work. personally i think some of the fat elvis shows were great fun, he was out of his face on drugs the entire time, but he had a good band backing him and had a good catalogue to work from, including many cover versions, and because he just appeared on stage and sang the songs without any overblown stage productions it was a great experience. it's a shame MJ doesn't do something like that, instead of something more like a theatrical show. even if his voice isn't the same as before, it would be far better to see him stand and sing instead of dance and mime. he's done all that before, so time for something new and with the times Alas, you also seem to be buying into the idea that Michael is choosing to dance instead of singing. I've already explained how illogical this is. He mimes plenty of dance-free numbers already and has been sounding abysmal in concert for years now. Elvis got fat, but his voice never declined. Big difference between him and MJ. Now just to clarify, I'm not saying Michael can't sing a note, but I am saying he can only sing in short bursts and even then, he can't do it as well as he did in the past. There is so much footage out there of Michael singing badly that it's a miracle people are still kidding themselves about this. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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It's truly embarrassing to watch the History -tour performances for me. They were an insult to any music lover, to be frank. But surely the "within tours argument" can be explained by Jackson just getting more and more tired - and sometimes physically ill - during those very long world tours. It's not really excusable though, and it's unfortunate that he has agreed for a far longer concert run that would seem reasonable for him this time around as well. We'll see what comes out of it next month.
I would still also like to emphasize again that according to the youtube clips I've watched of his post-80s performances he hasn't really sang any of his post-80s output live onstage - sans for some adlibs and "Jam" being performed live a couple of times during the start of the Dangerous tour. It's almost as if he hasn't "bothered" to work out how to do those vocals, whereas with the earlier material I guess he's just performed those songs hundreds of times so he feels confident enough to do them in most conditions. Who knows how many times he has performed that "Motown Medley" anyway, and I suspect it will be performed the same way this time around too. "Now we're gonna give you the old songs - the old-fashioned way!" Well, at least the old-fashioned way was to sing live when supposed to be performing live. | |
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 ^^^^^
saafiir said: rocknrolldave said: Your last point is an excellent one - Paul McCartney also changes the keys of some of the Beatles songs to match the fact that his voice has changed over the years. Some artists, like Morrissey, can't get the same high notes but have a richness they lacked in their youth. I would argue that anyone who plans to put on a show to a paying audience should either have a strong enough voice anyway that it is not an issue, or should be musically aware enough to adapt the songs and performances to fit their limitations - and that does NOT mean miming!  I'll die in your arms under the cherry moon... | |
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There really was no youtube or much of internet filesharing during the History -tour, so they probably didn't take into account that something like that could be witnessed and analysed in retrospect to such extent. Now we can watch basically most of the shows from that era in all their full playback glory. Unfortunatately there's such an abundance of this material around that it makes Jackson look like a complete buffoon if you don't take his earlier concerts into account.
I think it will be interesting to see what the set list will turn out to be, especially as he has no new album out this time around. I doubt "Thriller" will be the opener by the way. I don't think he is anymore capable of starting a show without being dressed up as a police officer or a space militant at this point.  | |
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midnightmover said: seeingvoices12 said:
Ridiculous Irrelevant response, or you didn’t know what or how to respond ? I didn’t know that you are god who knows everything and always right and everyone else is wrong , I think you should go with the advice I posted in the last of my previous point, waste your time on positive things please.Dude, it's not even worth explaining to you how stupid the post is because I know that you are incapable of understanding. The truth is, I'm flattering you by even addressing you at all. Count yourself lucky. 
Dude, seriously, Your Arrogance Knows No Boundaries MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Jacko’s disabled kid hunt
By LIA NICHOLLS Published: Today 
MICHAEL JACKSON is looking for a child who is missing limbs or in a wheelchair to appear on stage with him at his O2 gigs. 
An email from promoter AEG Live was sent to London casting agencies asking for a kid for a film. But a source said it’s a decoy to stop tour secrets leaking. 
The insider added: “Michael plans to have kids from all backgrounds on stage to fit in with his message of world peace and love.” http://www.thesun.co.uk/s...-gigs.html | |
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I don't feel he has "lost his voice what i think has contributed a great deal to him not delivering live like he used ot is the nose operations, you can clearly hear when he sings now that it sounds like he has a blocked nose. If this is the case then his breathing will affect his voice. He voice is also deeper now which happens to men as they mature so some of the notes he hit when younger will now not be able to be hit. As for not singing new material live if you see will you be there in the dangerous rehearsals it is obvious he can sing that live actually sounding beuatiful aswell as gone too soon and there is snippet of him singing heal the world live aswell on the net which sounds incredible. he did sound dreadful on the history tour and MSG hopefully he has concentrated on the voice a bit more for this tour but i expect there will be some miming for the fast numbers which i expect | |
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midnightmover said: unique said: i've compared MJ to elvis in the same way before, seeing fat elvis or MJ now is something that many people would do whether they liked them for thier work. personally i think some of the fat elvis shows were great fun, he was out of his face on drugs the entire time, but he had a good band backing him and had a good catalogue to work from, including many cover versions, and because he just appeared on stage and sang the songs without any overblown stage productions it was a great experience. it's a shame MJ doesn't do something like that, instead of something more like a theatrical show. even if his voice isn't the same as before, it would be far better to see him stand and sing instead of dance and mime. he's done all that before, so time for something new and with the times Alas, you also seem to be buying into the idea that Michael is choosing to dance instead of singing. I've already explained how illogical this is. He mimes plenty of dance-free numbers already and has been sounding abysmal in concert for years now. Elvis got fat, but his voice never declined. Big difference between him and MJ. Now just to clarify, I'm not saying Michael can't sing a note, but I am saying he can only sing in short bursts and even then, he can't do it as well as he did in the past. There is so much footage out there of Michael singing badly that it's a miracle people are still kidding themselves about this. i dunno what you are on about now. you're confusing what i've said with what someone else has said. almost anyone can sing, whether they can sing good or bad in another story, but i'd rather hear bad live singing than memorex | |
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unique said: midnightmover said: Alas, you also seem to be buying into the idea that Michael is choosing to dance instead of singing. I've already explained how illogical this is. He mimes plenty of dance-free numbers already and has been sounding abysmal in concert for years now. Elvis got fat, but his voice never declined. Big difference between him and MJ. Now just to clarify, I'm not saying Michael can't sing a note, but I am saying he can only sing in short bursts and even then, he can't do it as well as he did in the past. There is so much footage out there of Michael singing badly that it's a miracle people are still kidding themselves about this. i dunno what you are on about now. you're confusing what i've said with what someone else has said. almost anyone can sing, whether they can sing good or bad in another story, but i'd rather hear bad live singing than memorex You clearly haven't seen the full History Tour footage, have you? I really think you need to check it out because at the moment you seem blissfully unaware of just how bad the singing really was. That YRMW clip I posted earlier gives some small indication though.
btw, it's meaningless to say "anyone can sing". Michael is not some nobody off the street. It goes without saying people expect a basic level of decency from a professional and Michael would not be able to sustain that for more than a minute or two. This has been demonstrated about 300 times. That's roughly the number of live concerts he's given since 1988. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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midnightmover said: unique said: i dunno what you are on about now. you're confusing what i've said with what someone else has said. almost anyone can sing, whether they can sing good or bad in another story, but i'd rather hear bad live singing than memorex You clearly haven't seen the full History Tour footage, have you? I really think you need to check it out because at the moment you seem blissfully unaware of just how bad the singing really was. That YRMW clip I posted earlier gives some small indication though.
btw, it's meaningless to say "anyone can sing". Michael is not some nobody off the street. It goes without saying people expect a basic level of decency from a professional and Michael would not be able to sustain that for more than a minute or two. This has been demonstrated about 300 times. That's roughly the number of live concerts he's given since 1988. i don't watch youtube stuff normally, but i have a load of MJ live recordings, including rehearsals, and when he was singing live during his solo tours it was more often than not bad, and if the YRMW footage is the same as i have, then it's awful and an embarassment. watching stuff from the 70s showed that he could sing and dance at the same time and it was pretty good. i think if he just stood still and sang he wouldn't be out of breathe and would pull off something better than listening to a note perfect recording whilst miming and dancing. who the hell goes to a pop concert when the main artist isn't playing/singing live? if a singer can't sing live at a pop concert they shouldn't be doing it in the first place i saw brian wilson tour pet sounds, and hsi voice was as completely fucked as his brain, but he had a great support band, who were basically a beach boys tribute band, but with one of the main beach boys frontin' them. whilst brian was fucked, at least the music was live and it was fun gig. just like elvis at vegas, he wasn't at his best, but the band were good and you had the elvis hits plus covers, sang by elvis, no OTT theatrics. MJ should do the same, get a good band who can play properly, who can jam and improvise, and just let him sing the hits. even if he doesn't sound as good as on the record he would get credit for at least doing it live, and people would enjoy it as they have the real artist playing live. what's the point of having the real MJ if you aren't going to hear his real vocals most of the time? you may as well get an impersonator that can probably dance as well as the real MJ, if not better than him, and mime to the records. in the o2, few people are going to be able to tell the difference from their seats as the place is so big | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: NaughtyKitty said: First off you can stop with the telling me what I can and cant post--this is NOT a MJ forum it is a PRINCE forum. If you dont like the kinds of articles that are posted in this thread than maybe you should hang out more at the MJ messageboards--thats what they're for to cater to the fans. Perhaps I should remind you that this thread was not made to cater to MJ fans but to cut down on all the MJ topics flooding this forum, so anybody and everybody is free to post whatever they like regardless of if people agree with it or like it or not. Also if you'd read my posts in this thread you would see that I dont just post tabloid articles, I post ARTICLES--a few have been tabloid, the rest were general news articles, as well as my own opinions on MJ events. As for the Maximum Jackson forum I've never been there, I might check it out someday but I've been a longtime member of 2 major MJ messageboards so I know what I'm talking about when I say that MJ fanatics dont like other fans who even slightly criticize Michael. I've seen fans bashed or threatened to be banned for raising even the slightest issue many times. It happens alot so dont try to deny that it doesnt. Not all MJ fans but a lot of the newer fans of them are a highly sensitive bunch who dont take criticism of their idol very well. There's no need to be condesending. And no need to get so defensive. I never said that it didn't happen..and I acknowledge that it does happen...READ WHAT I WROTE. I did read what you wrote and when I said that fans who criticize Michael Jackson on his messageboards get bashed and either suspended or threatened with suspension, you told me to stop generalizing fans (which I wasnt) and to stop posting tabloids (which I dont)  And the reason why I responded back the way I did is because I have a short fuse when it comes to MJ fans going on other artists' messageboards and telling other people to stop posting _____(fill in the blank) just because they dont like whatever it was that was posted, or jumping down other posters' throats because they gave an opinion that they dont agree with--I dont have any patience nor tolerance for that kind of behavior. They can get away with that on other MJ messageboards but dont bring that mess here to another artists' forum. Let people post whatever they want to about MJ, both good AND bad. If fans dont like it then, oh well, there are plenty of MJ forums out there that wont allow the kinds of upsetting posts that most fans find offensive.
 MJ L.O.V.E: https://www.facebook.com/...689&type=2 / YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/us...nderSilent | |
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look at his arright arm at 6 seconds and look at his hands. | |
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midnightmover said: unique said: i've compared MJ to elvis in the same way before, seeing fat elvis or MJ now is something that many people would do whether they liked them for thier work. personally i think some of the fat elvis shows were great fun, he was out of his face on drugs the entire time, but he had a good band backing him and had a good catalogue to work from, including many cover versions, and because he just appeared on stage and sang the songs without any overblown stage productions it was a great experience. it's a shame MJ doesn't do something like that, instead of something more like a theatrical show. even if his voice isn't the same as before, it would be far better to see him stand and sing instead of dance and mime. he's done all that before, so time for something new and with the times Alas, you also seem to be buying into the idea that Michael is choosing to dance instead of singing. I've already explained how illogical this is. He mimes plenty of dance-free numbers already and has been sounding abysmal in concert for years now. Elvis got fat, but his voice never declined. Big difference between him and MJ. Now just to clarify, I'm not saying Michael can't sing a note, but I am saying he can only sing in short bursts and even then, he can't do it as well as he did in the past. There is so much footage out there of Michael singing badly that it's a miracle people are still kidding themselves about this. I'll die in your arms under the cherry moon... | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: look at his arright arm at 6 seconds and look at his hands. This is a more Interesting video that everyone should see MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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novabrkr said: There really was no youtube or much of internet filesharing during the History -tour, so they probably didn't take into account that something like that could be witnessed and analysed in retrospect to such extent. Now we can watch basically most of the shows from that era in all their full playback glory. Unfortunatately there's such an abundance of this material around that it makes Jackson look like a complete buffoon if you don't take his earlier concerts into account.
I think it will be interesting to see what the set list will turn out to be, especially as he has no new album out this time around. I doubt "Thriller" will be the opener by the way. I don't think he is anymore capable of starting a show without being dressed up as a police officer or a space militant at this point. good for you | |
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So how are many people have their tickets? I got mine. | |
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midnightmover said:
You just dodged absolutely every point, and backed away from some of your own implied statements. You said you disgreed with lipsynching and would much prefer if he sang live and did less dancing, which was clearly implying that there was some choice between dancing and singing. A lie by implication.
It's also a lie to say he started miming because of the dancing. In actual fact, one of the two songs he mimed on the Bad Tour was the first half of "Man In The Mirror", which features virtually no dancing. The only real dancing in the first half of that song takes place when he's not singing. So if he was only doing it because of the dancing, then why did he sing almost all the intensive dance songs live and mime a song that features nowhere near as much dancing? Can you not see how illogical this is? (btw, the other song he mimed, TWYMMF, also didn't feature so much dancing even though it's an uptempo song)
You've admitted that his voice declined (hallelujah!), but it's misleading to say this happens to most artists. Michael's decline started when he was 29 and is far, far worse than any other singer I've ever heard (and I've heard most of the greats). Try and find footage of Ray Charles, Marvin Gaye, or Gladys Knight singing as badly as MJ did on the History Tour, or even the Dangerous Tour. You won't find it. Most singers start declining in their fifties or late forties at the earliest, and even then they don't lose it remotely as much as Michael has. We could easily flood this thread with footage of great vocal performances given by people in their 50s. I'm glad to hear you're admitting that his lip synching increased as each tour progressed, but strangely, you've offered no explanation for this. If you listen to the tapes you'll hear that the singing got worse as each tour progressed. It's not just a case of this happening between tours, but actually within tours as well. What's your take on that? Is it just a coincidence that the voice got worse and the miming increased? And you are burying your head in the sand about his live vocals on the History Tour. Most of it was SO AWFUL that fans have not put the footage up on Youtube because of how embarrassing it was. In spite of this, I was able to find two live clips (from MSG 2001 and History 1996) which showed quite clearly how TERRIBLE his live vocals were (you ignored that, surprise, surprise). And bear in mind those clips are nowhere near as bad as the ones fans are hiding. I suggest you get a copy of the concert from Germany. It was brilliantly filmed and broadcast to millions in Europe. The fact that only the mimed sections of it have been put on Youtube gives you a clue as to how ATROCIOUS his singing was that night (and no, it was not an isolated occasion). [Edited 6/18/09 5:08am] See now I always thought the point of a debate was to listen to other's points of view and weigh them up. But you seem so overly invested in your point of view maybe you a blind to exploring other options. You also seem intent on misinterpreting or misconstruing things people say to prove your point. You also claim people dodge every point you make. If you would like to point out what points in particular you think I am dodging, I will be happy to address them. So once again, let me try and offer an alternative point of view, and address some of your key points. You said you disgreed with lipsynching and would much prefer if he sang live and did less dancing, which was clearly implying that there was some choice between dancing and singing. A lie by implication.
I don't know what you asserting here. So let me be clear. I stated that I felt that Michael has relied increasingly on lipsynching (especially, but not exclusively) during dance numbers. I wasn't agreeing with the whole lipsynching thing just pointing it out. Thus I was stating as a fan, I would rather have Michael sing live rather than feel the need to lipsynch to perform the dance routines. I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive, I am just pointing out that Michael tends to lipsynch the dance numbers and I would prefer he just stood still and sang live if that was the only alternative. It's also a lie to say he started miming because of the dancing. In actual fact, one of the two songs he mimed on the Bad Tour was the first half of "Man In The Mirror", which features virtually no dancing.
The only real dancing in the first half of that song takes place when he's not singing. So if he was only doing it because of the dancing, then why did he sing almost all the intensive dance songs live and mime a song that features nowhere near as much dancing? Can you not see how illogical this is? (btw, the other song he mimed, TWYMMF, also didn't feature so much dancing even though it's an uptempo song)As I stated at the beginning of my original post the only live shows I have seen of Michael's were the BAD tour and the History tour. Now for my BAD shows, the shows were 100% live. So I wasn't aware what songs were lipsynched in the Bad tour. Now I am unaware of where these songs were placed in the set, or on what leg of the tour, but it might be fair to say that those two songs were maybe the encore tracks and if so MJ might have decided to lipsynch them out of a. strain of his voice at that end of show or b. pure laziness. And by your own admission him singing everything but these two songs live surely doesn't prove your point that his voice was shot? I actually don't know what you are trying to assert with these examples, aside from that he lipsynched a ballad and an uptempo song. A point that was never in contention. You've admitted that his voice declined (hallelujah!), but it's misleading to say this happens to most artists. Michael's decline started when he was 29 and is far, far worse than any other singer I've ever heard (and I've heard most of the greats). Try and find footage of Ray Charles, Marvin Gaye, or Gladys Knight singing as badly as MJ did on the History Tour, or even the Dangerous Tour. You won't find it. Most singers start declining in their fifties or late forties at the earliest, and even then they don't lose it remotely as much as Michael has. We could easily flood this thread with footage of great vocal performances given by people in their 50s.
You contradict yourself here, as in the first sentence you say "it's misleading to say this [a decline in voice] happens to most artists." then 3 sentences later you admit "Most singers start declining in their fifties or late forties at the earliest, and even then they don't lose it remotely as much as Michael has." So now you admit a declining voice does happen to most artists? Also you have to take into account that maybe it isn't an age thing but rather how long these artists have been singing. Even if we take your observation that Michael's voice started to decline at 29 this is still nearly 20 years after his first professional recording. Again, a decline in his voice isn't in contention. The severity might be, as from the footage I have of Michael during the Australian History tour (again shows I attended) the voice was still there. And look I am sure that for every bad clip posted for a tour a great clip from that same tour can also be posted. I'm glad to hear you're admitting that his lip synching increased as each tour progressed, but strangely, you've offered no explanation for this. If you listen to the tapes you'll hear that the singing got worse as each tour progressed. It's not just a case of this happening between tours, but actually within tours as well. What's your take on that? Is it just a coincidence that the voice got worse and the miming increased?
Well again going back to my original post I offered my thoughts on that, being that I think Michael has willing or unwillingly built up this every show must be 100% perfect mentality that he has fallen to relying on backing tapes to offer that pitch perfect performance. Also I don't think you can disregard the heavy touring schedule he undertakes where most of the world tours were going for up to two years. Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be asserting that his voice has gotten increasingly worse with each tour, and thus this is the only reason he uses backing tapes? Then kindly explain how he can still deliver ballads like I'll be There (and they still sound good) and also extended adlibs during songs like Earth Song, Man in the Mirror, You are Not Alone, etc. And you are burying your head in the sand about his live vocals on the History Tour. Most of it was SO AWFUL that fans have not put the footage up on Youtube because of how embarrassing it was. In spite of this, I was able to find two live clips (from MSG 2001 and History 1996) which showed quite clearly how TERRIBLE his live vocals were (you ignored that, surprise, surprise). And bear in mind those clips are nowhere near as bad as the ones fans are hiding. I suggest you get a copy of the concert from Germany. It was brilliantly filmed and broadcast to millions in Europe. The fact that only the mimed sections of it have been put on Youtube gives you a clue as to how ATROCIOUS his singing was that night (and no, it was not an isolated occasion).
As I said my point of view is from the shows I attended, and for those 3 History shows when Michael sang live it was great, and far from awful. Again I reiterate that for every bad night you offer to give, good to great nights can also be offered. Now as for your posts of two youtube clips I was unaware of them thus me not commenting. But if you would like me to retrawl through the posts to find them and comment I would be happy to do so. And again I haven't seen the Germany show you speak off, though just doing a quick youtube search I found pages and pages of both amateur and broadcast clips from Germany, including non-mimed tracks and the quality of vocals vary from a very raspy sound Wanna Be Startin Something in Munich to a good performance in Cologne. As I said for every bad clip good to great ones can also be posted. And as I mentioned in my last post it might be an agree to disagree situation here. Now if you want to continue going back and forth, fine, but to what resolution if you aren't even open to other points of view? So to help clarify and clear up any confusion: here is my point of view in a nutshell (as clearly stated in my last post): I think the truth of why he lipsynchs is probably a mix of both points of view, a lessening in his voice, and his desire (and pressure) to give a perfect show each time.
If you can, just put your argument down to one sentence it might help us see your point of view more clearly. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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lilgish said: So how are many people have their tickets? I got mine.
I have my tickets for 2 shows in Feb 2010. When are yours? Also the upcoming concert offers a dilemma for me, as normally when I am going to see someone in concert, I tend to block any setlists, reviews, youtube clips etc as I want to see the show for the first time with my own eyes without knowing what comes next etc. But with 6 months between opening night and my shows I just don't know if I will be able to for sheer coverage it will receive and my own curiosity. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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Swa said: lilgish said: So how are many people have their tickets? I got mine.
I have my tickets for 2 shows in Feb 2010. When are yours? Also the upcoming concert offers a dilemma for me, as normally when I am going to see someone in concert, I tend to block any setlists, reviews, youtube clips etc as I want to see the show for the first time with my own eyes without knowing what comes next etc. But with 6 months between opening night and my shows I just don't know if I will be able to for sheer coverage it will receive and my own curiosity. Swa you have to be strong i did it for Sticky and Sweet. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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Swa said: lilgish said: So how are many people have their tickets? I got mine.
I have my tickets for 2 shows in Feb 2010. When are yours? July 22nd. I see you from Australia. I'm coming from the US. | |
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lilgish said: Swa said: I have my tickets for 2 shows in Feb 2010. When are yours? July 22nd. I see you from Australia. I'm coming from the US. Yeah Aussie here. Doing the mad trek, which I have done in the past to see shows such as 2 unforgettable nights at 3121. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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ehuffnsd said: Swa said: I have my tickets for 2 shows in Feb 2010. When are yours? Also the upcoming concert offers a dilemma for me, as normally when I am going to see someone in concert, I tend to block any setlists, reviews, youtube clips etc as I want to see the show for the first time with my own eyes without knowing what comes next etc. But with 6 months between opening night and my shows I just don't know if I will be able to for sheer coverage it will receive and my own curiosity. Swa you have to be strong i did it for Sticky and Sweet. And did it pay off??? Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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Swa said: ehuffnsd said: you have to be strong i did it for Sticky and Sweet. And did it pay off??? Swa yeah. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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unique said: i don't watch youtube stuff normally, but i have a load of MJ live recordings, including rehearsals, and when he was singing live during his solo tours it was more often than not bad, and if the YRMW footage is the same as i have, then it's awful and an embarassment. watching stuff from the 70s showed that he could sing and dance at the same time and it was pretty good. i think if he just stood still and sang he wouldn't be out of breathe and would pull off something better than listening to a note perfect recording whilst miming and dancing. who the hell goes to a pop concert when the main artist isn't playing/singing live? if a singer can't sing live at a pop concert they shouldn't be doing it in the first place i saw brian wilson tour pet sounds, and hsi voice was as completely fucked as his brain, but he had a great support band, who were basically a beach boys tribute band, but with one of the main beach boys frontin' them. whilst brian was fucked, at least the music was live and it was fun gig. just like elvis at vegas, he wasn't at his best, but the band were good and you had the elvis hits plus covers, sang by elvis, no OTT theatrics. MJ should do the same, get a good band who can play properly, who can jam and improvise, and just let him sing the hits. even if he doesn't sound as good as on the record he would get credit for at least doing it live, and people would enjoy it as they have the real artist playing live. what's the point of having the real MJ if you aren't going to hear his real vocals most of the time? you may as well get an impersonator that can probably dance as well as the real MJ, if not better than him, and mime to the records. in the o2, few people are going to be able to tell the difference from their seats as the place is so big Hooray, we finally agree! | |
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Supergrass covers project 'inspired by Michael Jackson'
Hot Rats was born out of 'Beat It' cover 
Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich has revealed how Supergrass's new side-project was inspired by Michael Jackson. Singer Gaz Coombes and drummer Danny Goffey's new band Hot Rats was born out of a cover of 'Beat It' the pair performed live under their previous moniker The Diamond Hoo Ha Men, according to Godrich. The producer told NME.COM: "We went into the studio to record it because I've got a studio in Covent Garden (central London). They came in and did it and decided it wasn't that good and thought of other songs we really liked. "So we bashed out a bunch of covers which was great. It was really high-energy psychedelia." The record, which is due out in the autumn, includes covers by Sex Pistols, The Kinks, Pink Floyd, Elvis Costello, The Doors, Pink Floyd and Beastie Boys. "We tried to find songs that were not recorded badly but were recorded in a way which you could finish them or do them in a way which was slightly better," explained Godrich. "It's your sort of classic favourite mixtape, what you think maybe people haven’t heard, which is done really tastefully." 
Meanwhile, Nigel Godrich is set to host a special gig by The Dead Weather in London on June 22, which will be broadcast live online. http://www.nme.com/news/s...rass/45457 | |
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unique said: Supergrass covers project 'inspired by Michael Jackson'
Hot Rats was born out of 'Beat It' cover
Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich has revealed how Supergrass's new side-project was inspired by Michael Jackson. Singer Gaz Coombes and drummer Danny Goffey's new band Hot Rats was born out of a cover of 'Beat It' the pair performed live under their previous moniker The Diamond Hoo Ha Men, according to Godrich. The producer told NME.COM: "We went into the studio to record it because I've got a studio in Covent Garden (central London). They came in and did it and decided it wasn't that good and thought of other songs we really liked. "So we bashed out a bunch of covers which was great. It was really high-energy psychedelia." The record, which is due out in the autumn, includes covers by Sex Pistols, The Kinks, Pink Floyd, Elvis Costello, The Doors, Pink Floyd and Beastie Boys. "We tried to find songs that were not recorded badly but were recorded in a way which you could finish them or do them in a way which was slightly better," explained Godrich. "It's your sort of classic favourite mixtape, what you think maybe people haven’t heard, which is done really tastefully."
Meanwhile, Nigel Godrich is set to host a special gig by The Dead Weather in London on June 22, which will be broadcast live online. http://www.nme.com/news/s...rass/45457 You can download the cover of Beat It by Supergrass that they are refering to here from itunes. It's on their Bad Blood EP. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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