her duet with Micahel "Scream (For You Savoir)" was hot...

midnightmover said:

She wasn't the most innovative,groundbreaking artist but I would argue that she did bring alot to the R&B table.She was writing and producing much of her own music,at a time when most R&B female singers were paired with producers (Stephanie Mills,Patti LaBelle,Cheryl Lynn,etc).She experimented with jazz and Latin styles ("Portugese Love","Stop The World") and,imo she's an exceptional songwriter,writing very original lyrics.Don't you dare try to downplay her talents.

shorttrini said:

You bring up an interesting point.Many of today's so-called "R&B artists" aren't really making genuine soul music at all.Beyonce and R.Kelly is not my idea of soul.It seems like these artists are more influenced by hip-hop than genuine R&B.On the other hand,white artists like Remy Shand,Jamiroquai,and Robin Thicke are making music that is truly soulful,imo.These guys have studied classic soul music,and they "get it".R.Kelly would never come out with a genuinely soulful track like "Lost Without U".

paisleypark4 said:

SoulAlive said:

I could not have said this better myself. Even though, Amy might not be as "original" to some on this board, she as well as Robin are making music that is more closer to classic soul than their black counterparts. Why is that? That should be the true question not..."What white artist do you give a "black pass" to? It seems like that is all we have done, is give out passes, but to our "black" artists. It is almost like we excuse them for making faux R&B music.

shorttrini said:

midnightmover said:

Once again,I have to ask....what exactly did other R&B artists like Freddie Jackson,Mikki Howard,Regina Belle,Keith Sweat and others bring to the game that was new and groundbreaking? The truth is,there hasn't been much originality in R&B for awhile now.

SoulAlive said:

Damn SoulAlive, have mercy on me! Please don't beat me up you bad mutha! I'm just gonna hide here in my box till you cool down. Is it safe to come out now?

midnightmover said:

threads like these always become controversial,but alot of fun too

I dont agree with the idea that Black artist have somehow lost their "soul". There are lots of soulful Black artist, but we know all how this industry is. Thye are not going get signed, much less promoted unless they fit the standard of the day. Unfortunately, the standard of the day is irritating video game sounds ,wack ass beats, and nursery rhyme cuplets. If White artist are making more soulful music maybe its because they are given more creative freedom. Maybe labels are more willing to let these artist stretch, grow, and take chances. I think there are still lots of soulful artist out here, you just have to be willing to seek them out and support them, cause you damn sure aint gonna hear it on the radio.

proofread edit.
[Edited 8/6/07 13:34pm]
[Edited 8/6/07 13:47pm]

unkemptpueblo said:

Elegantly Stated and accurate.

And if Michael McDonald and Robin Thicke get a pass, I'm not sure I care...

midnightmover said:

Cinnie said:

New application for Joyce's "black pass"

MendesCity said:

MsLegs said:

Yes, I second this!!!

unkemptpueblo said:

Okay, if this is the case, then let me know just who they are? Most of the artist that are heard today, are artist that are on indie labels, and by indie this I mean, labels that are "offshoots", of major labels. In terms of "creative freedom", Most of what is heard from these black artists lately, could be considered, "creative". I mean growing up, I never heard a nursery rhyme used in an R&B or rap song. So, the creativity is there, to a point. But, there is a big difference between creativity and originality and just plain laziness. I think, some not all of today's black artist are just plain lazy when it comes to making good music and it is starting to show. You can use the argument that today's record companies are not going to sign or promote artist that do not fit the industry standard. But, what about some of the veterans, who are on these lables? What can be said about the music that they have been putting out? Babyface's last CD sucked and I am sure that they gave him the "artistic freedom", that you metioned. Meanwhile, Robin Thicke, Amy, as well as a few others while not classic cd's, have been very interesting to listen to. What gives?

VonMarie said:

Very true. There are many out there that are good. I just think right now, for the moment the industry is looking for what's popular for now, and Amy, Robin Thicke are the 2 they are paying attention to, but as more white artists doing R&B becomes "common" it won't be a big deal anymore and the industry will just look for the next so-called popular thing. It's like when N'Sync came out singing R&B tunes and the industry jumped on it. Justin basically was the only one in that group that continued to sing R&B. It's about what's popular right now and who sounds good, for record companies to make money, as record companies are in competition with itunes, myspace, the internet, etc. as ways that independent artists are using to sell their music.

As far as Black artists doing R&B that will never die out. The thing is now you have a lot of black artists that are doing more than R&B, hip-hop/rap, like alternative/new wave/electronica, in which those artists don't get as much attention. Artists like J*Davey and KUDU for example are artists that have become popular underground, so to speak. Just in the past year J*Davey has been getting a lot of attention and recently signed to Warner. It's like everyone expects Black artists to be R&B without realizing all Black artists cannot be put into one genre of music, but although more white artists are singing R&B/Soul music, it's not like they were never around, it's just that they are just now being paid more attention to and the industry is always looking to make a quick buck on what they think is popular now--it's not hard to see that some of these record companies, do not care about the creativity, training,or hard work these artists put into their work as long as they could get them out there fast, make a quick buck, even if some of these artists are "manufactured" into fitting the so-called "image" these record labels think an artist should have in order to sell their music and hit the top of the charts.
[Edited 8/7/07 6:31am]

shorttrini said:

I think the problem is.....many of today's black R&B artists are too influenced by hip-hop.I don't know if the record labels force them to go that route,or if they genuinely want to make that type of music,but there's nothing "soulful" about it.If you remove the vocals from a Beyonce album,you could just get a rapper to rap over the instrumentals.Ditto for a Jaheim or R.Kelly album.These guys aren't interested in REAL SOUL MUSIC with real instruments,melodies and hooks.They're interested in BEATS....just like the rappers.Mariah Carey can't even make an album without a bunch of thugged-out rappers pissing all over the songs.R&B could actually come alive again if these artists would concentrate on making real soul music (sans the hip-hop gimmicks).When I bought Remy Shand's CD several years ago,I couldn't believe how soulful it sounded.There are no stupid rappers on the tracks,and the music is clearly inspired by folks like Al Green and Marvin Gaye.

this thread is racist.

SoulAlive said:

I was responding to the statement made by laurarichardson claiming that Teena Marie brougth a lot to the RnB table.

So when a white artist made two or three r&b hits, that's a MEGA HUGE accomplishement ?

What's next ?

Justin Timberlake the New king of pop ?

krayzie said:

as a female artist who wrote, produced and played her own tunes i would disagree with you 100%.

sosgemini said:

As a female artist that never released a classic album. And never changed the face of soul music...

Nope She brought nothing new.

I respect her talent and her career. But Nope I ain't gone give her more credits.

krayzie said:

well, your free to your own personal individual opinion but i look at it this way, the girl has been covered numerous times and songs sampled that obviously the 90's and 00 generations have much respect and admiration for her.

sosgemini said:

Yep just like MANY other black artists... What made her so special compared to other black acts covered numerous times and sampled ?

I really want to know ...

[Edited 8/7/07 10:46am]

krayzie said:

its a subjective thing...why are you trying to argue the issue down to a nub?

krayzie said:

It's all subjective.I happen to think that 'Irons In The Fire' and 'It Must Be Magic' are classic R&B albums.You're fighting a losing battle,trying to downplay her talents.Teena gets alot of props in the R&B world.

SoulAlive said:

First of all, I DON'T TRY TO DOWNPLAY her talent...

BUT sorry to disappoint you, but your Teena Marie Ain't NINA SIMONE, AIN'T ELLA FITZGERALD, AIN'T ANITA BAKER, AIN'T ROBERTA FLACK, AIN'T ARETHA FRANKLIN, AIN'T PATI LABELLE, AIN'T SARAH VAUGHAN, AIN'T CHAKA KHAN, AIN'T TINA TURNER etc...


I judge white artists only based on talent. But some people always want to give MORE credits to white artists with less talent.

This is what I call double standard.
[Edited 8/8/07 7:06am]

The best thing about Teena Marie was, in the very beginning, she entered the music scene through the "black door". She went after the R&B crowd from the very beginning and didn't give a damn if the pop crowd went for her or not. In fact, the reason her picture is not on her first album, is because she and Rick James were afraid that black audiences might not buy her music if they saw a white woman on the cover. For a white artist to love R&B so much that they don't care about pop sales, she gets my total 100% respect.