Bart Simpson

krayzie said:

Did Freddie Jackson bring something "new" to the game? What about Keith Sweat? What about Mikki Howard and Regina Belle? The point I'm making is,there are alot of black R&B singers who didn't exactly break any ground.Sure,they made great R&B music,but they didn't do anything that hadn't been done before.I don't know why you feel Teena was expected to do so.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, singers like Amy and Joss have brought something that has been missing in R&B music for a long time, and that is "soul" This soul, is something that comes from within. I have not heard this very much in today's music, that is done by black artist. I guess one of the reasons why so many of the people on this board get upset with Amy, Joss and other white arist is because, blaming the Maxwell's and the Van Hunt's of the world, would be admitting that, white sould sings ARE sometimes more successful because unlike their black counterparts, they take the time to study our music while our own people take it for granted that since this is "our music", so why should we take the time to study the things that make up a song, like melody, a hook and how to really show some creativity as well as originally.Let's just continue to recycle the same old shyt and label it something new". This is the mindset of most of today's black artist.

SoulAlive said:

krayzie was merely responding to laurarichardson's claim that Teena Marie "bought a lot to the R&B table". She was cool, but let's not kid ourselves she added anything major to R&B.

White people always get defensive when you broach the subject of prejudice in music. Personally I don't even call it prejudice, so much as preference. There are more whites in the US and Europe than blacks. Naturally they're more likely to respond warmly to a white artist. This means white artists are often more marketable.That doesn't mean whites can't love black artists. We know they often do, but they can identify more with Eminem than with say LL Cool J. Also, no one is saying white artists can't make great black music. They can, but the fact is a white singer who rates 6 out of 10 on the talent scale will have a much better chance than a black singer who rates 9 out of 10. That's just the way it is.

People talk about the poor songwriting in today's black music. Well yeah, but have you heard the junk Joss Stone puts out? You gonna tell me that's good songwriting? GTFOMF with that shit!

midnightmover said:

In a sense she did. Up until that time, many thought that R&B was just a "black thing", I think she upped the ante. Now, anyone that came after her, had to step up their game. Those who came after her have always mentioned her name as one of their influences. So yes, she added something. Now question about it.

shorttrini said:

What did she add? Other artists might have paid lip service to her, but I never heard her influence anywhere. Don't get me wrong I liked her. She was good, but really it's irelevant to the conversation anyway. Let's get this straight. No one is saying white artists can't make good black music. No one is saying that. To be talking about that is really a distraction from the main issue. The point is they are given preferential treatment. That's the point.

shorttrini said:

I know this is your opinion, but I couldn't disagree with you more. There are a lot of black artist with soul if you take the time to check them out! And how do you know how all black artist think? That's a very broad and general statement!

midnightmover said:

I have to say that this makes the most sense out of most things I have read in this thread!!!

I don't know anything about this "black pass" thing, but has anyone mentioned Dusty Springfield or Janis Joplin yet?

CarrieMpls said:

Interesting and not bad choices Carrie. Janis especially had a powerful set of chords, she molded her vocal style after a number of great legendary Blues vocalist and it showed in her delivery of songs like: Tell Mama.

midnightmover said:

Exactly. This is the unfortunatly realities of the industry which has always been in effect. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

So is there a "white-pass" and if so does Prince get one.

MsLegs said:

I'm only familiar with Etta James' version of that song... Assuming it's the same song.

I'm not even a huge follower of Jains, I just think she brought it to everything she did. She was definitely a blues singer. Most definitely.

irrisistableB said:

Sure, Prince has an all access pass. Hmmmmm, lets see... Whitney Houston had a "white pass" when she first came onto the sceen.

VonMarie said:

Y'all, please don't take me serious here...this entire thread is completely subjective!

VonMarie said:

Are you calling what the material that groups like, Boys To Men, Babyface & Music Soul Child,have been putting out lately, good music? and that I am supposed to support them cause they are black? NO! Here is the problem, we as consumers have become too complacent when it comes to the material that today's artist put out. It used to be that I would look forward to the next Babyface or Stevie Wonder cd, but it seems as if they want to join the bandwagon of recycled R&B; and just because they are who they are, I am supposed let it pass if their material is not up to standard and ignore someone like Amy, who somehow got the idea of originality right? I stand by my statement about how white artist study our music while some of our own, take for granted that because it is "ours" we are exempt from learning the ins and outs of it.

CarrieMpls said:

Actually, Carrie it is the same song. Etta sings this song during her set. From what I heard, Etta had met Janis back in the 60's and as it turned out Janis was a fan of hers.

CarrieMpls said:

Your assesssment is dead on it Carrie. Janis definitely evoked feeling in her music. My mom got me hip to her while watching Woodstock and Dick Cavett.

shorttrini said:

Good Lord! You can support whoever you want to support! All I said is that I disagreed with you. I'm not on anybodys bandwagon. And to tell you the truth, I'm not into MOST of todays popular music for that matter because it just doesn't appeal to me. I'm more into Old School Funk and RnB and Blues! One person I also like is one of the example you gave, and that is Amy Winehouse. But don't think for one minute that she is origional! She's good...damn good, but there are those who came before her. Billy Holiday comes to mind BIG time when I listen to her. Erykah Badu had that style after that. I just don't get why you are so quick to say that she is origional and other black artist are recycling the same shit!?

At some of the responses on this thread.

I knew I should have stopped reading with I saw Robin "I sound awful singing live" Thicke, and Mr. Kazoo a.k.a. Kenny G. mentioned.

Im not going to really answer this as its a stupid stupid stupid topic,
you cant say all black people have soul just because there black, and the same is true u cant say all white people dont have soul cause there white,
but regardless of the above and wether he is black or white,


Justin Fucking Timberlake does not have soul!!!!!
[Edited 8/5/07 20:08pm]

VonMarie said:

I totally agree with you in a sense that, Amy's music is not that original. But, compared to what is out there now, she IS original. This is what I was trying to say.

georgeguitar said:

amen

shorttrini said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

So you think black artists like :

Chris Rob ?
Carol Riddick ?
Jennifer Hudson ?
Chrisette Michelle ?
Van hunt ?
Raheem DeVaughn ?
Dwele ?
Anthony Hamilton ?
Lyfe Jennings ?
Beyonce ?
Alicia Keys ?
Bilal ?
Musiq Soulchild ?
etc (Just to name a few)


Are not soulful compared to your Amy and Joss ?

Tell me what your successful white artists do that seems so much better ?

Singing ? Dancing ? Writing meaningful songs ? Playing instruments ?

And please don't talk like if you were black, because it's obvious that YOU AIN'T BLACK.
[Edited 8/5/07 15:14pm]

shorttrini said:

Amy is ok, she's cool.I can tolerate her for just a little while, because most of the time she sounds like she's whining (no pun intended) but in my opinion, there is nothing original or different than her style other than she is a white artist that sings in a soulful, sort of blues style. Yes soul music comes from within, you put your all in it, but Amy's sound is very motown, so it is very hard for me to say her sound is original when you can hear so much Motown in her music.

When I first heard "Rehab" I would have thought it was all her own, until I listened to her other songs/music and you could hear Smokey Robinson/The Supremes music all in her sound and that's cool.

It's funny because I've heard many white singers sing blues music that were either from the South or New Orleans, so singers from that environment or neck of the woods, so to speak, their sound would not surprise me at all, but I guess with Amy being from the Uk and singing soul music, it would bring attention to others.

I think it all has to do with the environment you grow up in listening to music and what type of training you had, if any, that tells it all. You could have a white person who wanted to be a singer, grew up in an all white neighborhood, but listened to mostly r&b, blues, jazz singers and mastered the skill of singing it. It's not impossible to adapt to different types of music with the right training. Same as a Black person singing non-r&b, soul, etc. music. Look at the artist named "Skye" from the UK. When I first heard her sing, I honestly thought she was a white woman, she is not an R&B or blues/soul singer at all. Her music is mainly pop music. So I believe it all has to do with your environment, the type of music you listened to as a youngster, the training you received, if any, and how you mastered that identifies what type of singer you are. I don't think it has anything to do with who sells more or does better on the charts according to their race, i.e, black r&b singer vs white r&b singer. We all know that Soul,blues, r&b music was very much a part of mostly Black communities, so there's no argument there.

It's just recently that white r&b singers are getting attention because a lot of the (not all) black youth and white youth have been into hip-hop/rap for the past 15 years, and a lot of white rock artists, alternative music artists, jazz artists and the mostly black r&b artists pretty much had to compete with that. So now you have a handful of white artists going into r&b and soul music and just a handful are coming out on top. Once those numbers increase of more white artists singing r&b or sould music, it won't be anything new anymore because people will get used to it being sung by them as well, and consumers will be looking for something new as they always do.

These days and times, consumers from all race groups are buying music they like to hear regardless of whose singing it. If Robin Thicke sounds good to some they'll buy it, doesn't mean the entire Black community will down Black r&b or Soul singers because white artists are singing that type of music too. With the internet and everyone downloading, bootlegging and getting music for free, anyway they can, these days it's hard to tell really how well some artists are really doing if all the numbers are not being accounted for.

In my opinion this may be something new for a lot of people in the white community so they are supporting those acts as well as some black consumers. Look at Corinne Bailey, she doesn't sing R&B, but she sings more in the pop category and she's getting a lot of attention from a mainly white market in the UK and gradually in the US, as well as other black artists that can be put into her category. So it's really up to the consumer of what type of artist they like.

If I purchase an Amy Winehouse cd doesn't mean I will forget where the sound of her music style came from, that would actually be the reason I would purchase it. Same with the late Janis Joplin, I liked her music because she sounded like a Black female and sung with soul, and was right up there with famous black soul singers in my book like Aretha, Al Green, Joe Cocker, Patti Labelle, that put their entire soul into their music when they sang/sung, and ran chills up your spine...and you could feel it...to me that's what makes a good "Soul/R&B" singer in the first place. I'm not interested in who sells more records than the other, or which one is on top of the charts, if you got it and you can bring it, then you are alright with me, not what race you are, just give me the music....just my 99 1/2 cents.. .
[Edited 8/5/07 19:37pm]

Vanilla Ice.....

Dewrede said:

Yes!!! Let the Church say Amen!!!

VonMarie said:

whoohoo i feel proud that im bringin some unity, black and white people can all agree justin fuckin timberlake has no soul