SpecialEd said:

r.kelly king of r&b????? shittttt

vainandy said:

Try to be logical there...

Because you make absolutely no sense.

You first stated that you hate music nowdays and then claimed that you don't care "how well someone sings".

Music nowdays is exactly what you like : Untalented artists who can't sing for shit produced by supa mega producers.

YOU ARE THE REASON WHY MUSIC NOWDAYS SUX.
Because you don't care about singing and would choose untalented acts over real talented singers. And saddly many people think like you.


And this is what we got right now. The top selling artists are untalented acts who can't sing produced by SUPA MEGA producers behind.


What you said explains EVERYTHING. It explains WHY MUSIC SUX. Period.

You'd choose a Britney Spears produced by Prince over any real singer making "boring" music. That means a lot.

That's why Music sux. Now.






Nope, you aren't concerned about talent at all, that's why you said "I don't give a damn about how well someone sings"

How can you be extremely concerned about talent if you prefer untalented acts over real singers ???

What matters to you are the hot producers making hot beats and the image... And this what dominates the charts...

Image and hot producers first, talent comes second...





I don't give a damn about how boring she is, just a matter of taste. Whitney Houston acappella puts in the water all of your manufactured over produced untalented prostitutes with no talent like Vanity Shit. They can't even handle a single note to save their lives.



You seem to be more concerned about the image, and the hot producers behind. In fact you don't care about real talent.


What you said explains everything. It explains why the charts are dominated by garbage shit like the Pussy cat dolls, the Fergie, the Danity Kane, the Gwen Stefani...

This is what you like this what you want... And many people think just like you... Hot Producers and image first, real talent behind... This is what matters to you.

SoulAlive said:

If she was black I would treat her exactly the same way. I don't know why I would give more credits to Teena Marie just to please white people.

I can say the same for Robin thicke, Joss Stone etc...

I will always threat artists the same way regardless of skin color.
[Edited 8/9/07 10:07am]

krayzie said:

could your defensive posturing be part of your reasoning?

VonMarie said:

gracias!

krayzie said:

sosgemini said:

What kind of defensive posturing you talk about ???

I'm talkin about talent ...


Sorry to say the truth...

krayzie said:

your being defensive with the "just to please white people" statement...nobody is asking you to please anyone but yourself...once again, if you don't feel that teena wasn't groundbreaking then hey, more power to you but many other folks up in here have a differing thought...and its not felt to "please white people".

thats a silly and irresponsible statement to make.

sosgemini said:

statements like this are why i think threads like this are racial baiting and should be locked.

krayzie said:

Diana Ross has never been the most technically-proficient singer in the world - not even the most technically-proficient singer in The Supremes in fact... But her classic Motown output is fantastic and irreplaceable.

The beating heart of popular music since the 1950s onwards has been manufactured popular music - some of it good and some of it bad. That Pussy Cat Doll record might be utter bilge, but if its profits help to finance the next undiscovered talent, who cares?

I'm with vainandy on this one. My definition of a good song is based on its melody, lyrics and vibe. If I wanted to hear a singing competition, I'd watch American Idol on a loop.

And I'm going to use Chrisette Michelle as an example - good voice, forgettable songs.

ugh so that's why britney spears was huge, her voice is horrible but her music is catchy, you just answered the question I've been asking myself for years about how the fuck she sold so much with that horrible voice and ripping off other artists work

ehuffnsd said:

They never get locked. Some mods were don't do their job like they should

sosgemini said:

It's not "being defensive", I'm just saying what I feel about this subject... There's no defensive posturing whatsoever...

You interpret my statement wrongly...

sosgemini said:

Nobody is asking me to please anyone but myself, and I NEVER ASKED ANYBODY TO AGREE WITH ME...

This is MY opinion. Period

Justin1972UK said:

There's a big difference between the Supremes and Vanity, the Supremes can sing, Vanity cant sing AT ALL... Period

There's a big diffrence between the Supremes and Vanity.

Justin1972UK said:

We are not talkin agout GOOD song, we are talkin about TALENT.

So you'd choose Britney Spears produced by Prince over Chrisette Michelle who can sing, play instruments and write her own songs ????
So now that makes sense... Don't complain if Music sux now...

I'll never choose garbage trash over real talent. No matter how great the producers are behind...
[Edited 8/9/07 11:39am]

Najee said:

Well add me to the list as well. I will agree that Teena Marie is the shit, Square Biz and Portuguese Love Me all day and all night. But the majority of Teena's recognition stems from her association with Rick James. She produced a significant bulk of her own work, however can anyone honestly say that her production matched or was superior to that of her 80s rivals? The honest truth is that as talented as she is, she really didn't bring anything new or innovative to the table.

MikeMatronik said:

i don't look at this subject as race baiting though...and if either of you had issue with it then why didn't you report the post to a moderator? at least then all the mods would be alerted and a decision could have been made...or better yet, if you are that offended by the subject create a thread about it in the site discussion so that the community can discuss the subject.

you didn't do any of this, did you? but its us who aren't doing our job.

Agree, and even Elvis used to go into Black clubs and neighborhoods to listen to soul music/gospel music because he liked it so much and wanted to copy the style of it into his music; and that's according to James Brown's last book. It's music sung from deep within your soul and you are right, it stems from the African-American experiences from old negro spirituals, blues, folk music, sung with passion/emotion--all this became incorporated into R&B/Soul music. If you have the voice, ear training and understanding/knowledge of the culture it came from, know the feel of this music, then it would not be hard to adapt to it.

Because there are more white singers that are singing soul music/r&b now does not mean that soul/r&b music will be lost or disowned from the community/culture it originated from, regardless of who is singing it. Those who do not want to accept the birthplace of it are in denial or ignorant about the history of it. Not everyone can sing it well, just like not how not everyone can do rock/pop/opera, etc. Speaking of white artists singing soul/r&b that I'll give a soul pass to, is Johny Lang--he sounds like a young Michael McDonald.


Here's my list:

Janis Joplin
Joe Cocker
Michael McDonald
Teena Marie
Johnny Lang (might be spelled Jonny-not sure)
Nikka Costa

-----
Group w/soul (from back in the day)

3 Dog Night
[Edited 8/9/07 13:29pm]

sosgemini said:

my thoughts are my thoughts, and we all know how well a What Black Artist Would You Give A White Pass would go.

We know from your posting on Koreans who get a Japanense that you think the validity of these threads should be discussed in PnR not here.

In my opinion good music is good music no matter who makes it. Why are in a Prince site focusing on race? Just save us the trouble of having this thread come up all the time and make it a sticky.

deletion of an extra is
[Edited 8/9/07 13:35pm]

ehuffnsd said:

no no, i said the validity should be discussed in site discussion...i suggested discussing the racial aspect in p&r.

---

i don't know...this is a tough one...do we lock these threads because they are retreads (yet run the risk of being overzealous)? or do we keep it and run the risk of being non-responsive cause everyone can see the thread topic and avoid at their own discretion?

i don't know...let me think on that.

sosgemini said:

i just don't see how adding to the all ready existing issues of race on here solves anything.

sosgemini said:

So if that is the case, shouldn't Patrice Rushen (another female musician who also wrote and produced her own music in the late 1970s and 1980s) get the same credit? It's fair to say that Teena Marie was no more successful than Rushen was. Like krayzie said, Marie does seem to be held in higher regard than comparable peers and even some who outstripped her.

If I'm not mistaken, Freddie Jackson helped write some of his music. Keith Sweat was heavily involved in the production of his music (he generally wrote and produced his music, and helped with the musical creation). But in any event, there is no debating that Jackson and Sweat were more successful than Marie ever was.
[Edited 8/9/07 16:10pm]

Najee said:

who's saying they don't? your on a website dedicated to a funk artist...of course the admiration is going to be spread out more for like minded artists.

some times i think we argue just to argue around here. (myself included.)

sosgemini said:

I'm not talking about the people on this Web site -- I'm talking about the music community at large, which seems to be krayzie's argument. Like krayzie said, in some circles Teena Marie does seem to be held in a higher regard than comparable artists who had similar careers (like Patrice Rushen) and some artists who clearly were more successful (Freddie Jackson, Keith Sweat).

Essentially, one can make the argument that Marie was basically a white version of Rushen who receives more accolades than what her production yielded.
[Edited 8/9/07 16:39pm]

The real issue is that black soul singers are not being promoted because

1. Rap has become the only form of afro art/life/musical expression. A PFunk or sly stone equivalent of today would be labelled as making white music.

2. People want to hear white soul singers. The same thing happened when they found a white guy that could rock and roll bakc in the day.

3. People are too lazy to look for real music

Najee said:

too many hypotheticals for me to give a damn.

sosgemini said:

It's no hypothetical -- Keith Sweat and Freddie Jackson were much more successful than Teena Marie.

Patrice Rushen had a similar career to Marie's, in mostly the same timespan.

So why is Marie being held in some circles with higher regard for being an equal or (in Jackson's and Sweat's cases) a LESSER act? After all, YOU'RE the one who wanted to give Marie more credit over Jackson and Sweat.

If you want a clown session, do it when you're not trying to avoid answering the question.
[Edited 8/9/07 17:05pm]

Najee said:

ummm...where did i ever state that teena marie deserves more credit then jackson or sweat?

and whenever you throw out statements like "in some circles" you might as well be making shit up....you can't prove any of what you are saying so instead of coming up with make believe statistics why don't you stick with what you know, your own opinion.

thats why i said i don't have time for hypotheticals...this conversation is a bore because instead of just sharing how you feel you want to prove that your the heir to "the truth".

well, you know what? go for it...your right...your opinion and only our opinion is correct...and you have verified polling data compiled from "those people" and "other people" and possibly "some people".

so why you do that im gonna close shop at work and figure out what i am going to eat for dinner.

tt4n.

sosgemini said:

You said that in comparison to Freddie Jackson, Keith Sweat, Miki Howard and Regina Belle, "isnt teena the only one who writes, plays and produces her own work? ... see, i think teena gets credit because she is a *woman* who broke down gender barriers in the funk world...not racial."

The problem is that Marie didn't "break down any barriers" and shouldn't get any more credit in comparison to the aforementioned solely because she wrote and produced some songs. She shouldn't get any more credit than Sweat (who also wrote and produced his own music) or Jackson (who wrote his music to a lesser degree), and she surely wasn't as successful as them.

sosgemini said:

Since you and I don't know the same people, it's silly for me to say that "I was having this conversation with XYZ and they really feel that Teena Marie was a major success in the soul music genre, and hold her music in the same regard as more prominent acts."I have talked with and heard quite a few people over the years who hold Marie in such high standing -- just listening to some of the 1980s formats radio stations and hearing some of the people on the radio stations going on about Marie would lead you to think she was a major success.

Earlier, you were babbling on her relevance based on some of her songs being sampled by other artists, as if it's a validation for Marie's disproportionately praised career. Several people jumped all over krayzie for questioning the undue praise Marie gets for being moderately successful. I've heard and seen similar reactions from certain people when someone else questions Marie's reputation and relevance.

sosgemini said:

Last I looked, no one told you to answer my statements. You talk a lot for someone who continually seems to be oblivious to soul music (but yet is always commenting on it) and is nothing more than moderator who apparently has no real job, save to become too involved in being on a Web site. You run your mouth and when asked to step forward you cry like a fourth-grader with a skinned-up knee.
[Edited 8/9/07 17:53pm]