Novabreaker said:

Production wise certainly. Songwriting wise- hell no. Just take the title track for example. Ponderous, pseudo poetic lyrics with a COMPLETELY uninteresting melody. The only thing that carries it is TTD's great vocal. This was the second single from the album and it totally bombed whereas SOD had produced four hits. Critically the response was muted too compared to SOD. SOD had at least 8 great songs and arguably no weak ones. Vibrator had maybe 4 great songs (Holding Onto You especially) and at least 5 weak ones.

BlaqueKnight said:

At his best no. But that song's not his best. What the hell does the phrase "vibrator" have to do with the theme anyway? Answers on a postcard please.

The reviews certainly were not that different. I don't remember the album getting less than 3 stars anywhere, 4 stars mostly. "Symphony Or Damn" produced (relative) successive hits because "Delicate" was a big MOR hit and the other songs just followed - not because they would have been especially of that much higher quality.

Don't be so obsessed about singling out the number of "weak" or "good" tracks on an album, especially as you should be aware that no one is going to agree on the numbers you are proposing. That's always been a bad argument when discussing the quality of an album and continues to be. And if you ask my personal opinion, "Vibrator", the song, beats the hell out of, say, "She Kissed Me" or "Wet Your Lips". I don't know, the song may contain an "uninteresting" melody to you but I highly doubt most TTD fans would agree that the song in question would be one of his weakest songs by any merits. I know many individuals also in real life, who absolutely adore that song (but no, it's not one of my personal TTD favourites either on the other hand).

Well, of course I seldom seem to personally agree with anything you post on these forums but then again that's another story. Don't get me wrong, every discussion board has individuals who always have strong opinions on myriad matters concerning musical taste. And that's fine.

whoknows said:

It was explained in the album's liner notes, you know...

Novabreaker said:

I'll check it out later and I'm pretty sure in advance it will be highly pretentious. I love TTD but his middle name is bullshit.

whoknows said:

Haha. I agree that TTD is exactly that, I'm not going to challenge you there.

But basically his idea comes down to Spinoza's classic teachings in nature philosophy (which isn't considered total bullshit, you know) and TTD's own shared pantheistic views. The classic idea is that every conglomeration of partikels that form an entity vibrates at its own frequency, thus setting the differencies between different objects for the eye to categorize. Of course, he just liked to call the album "Vibrator" mainly for controversial value but that's one part of rock'n'roll artistry. Lyrical theme juxtapositions don't have to be that deep, you know.

Novabreaker said:

That seems to me a perfectly logical way to an assess an album. How many times do you hit the skip button? As for the singles following Delicate. Wasn't Holding Onto You a fairly big hit?

1. Vibrator
2. Supermodel Sandwich
3. Holding On To You
4. Read My Lips (I Dig Your Scene)
5. Undeniably
6. We Don't Have That Much Time Together
7. C.Y.F.M.L.A.Y.?
8. If You Go Before Me
9. Surrender
10. TTD's Recurring Dream
11. Supermodel Sandwich W/Cheese
12. Resurrection
13. It's Been Said







1. Welcome To My Monasteryo
2. She Kissed Me
3. Do You Love Me Like You Say?
4. Baby Let Me Share My Love
5. Delicate
6. Neon Messiah
7. Penelope Please
8. Wet Your Lips
9. Turn The Page
10. Castilian Blue
11. 'T.I.T.S.'/'F & J'
12. Are You Happy?
13. Succumb To Me
14. I Still Love You
15. Seasons
16. Let Her Down Easy




bold are stand out tracks for me, italics are good but not favorites, & *Seasons* is without a doubt his most exquisite song... neck & neck though Symphony has more tracks... I still pick up Vibrator more often than I do Symphony, it seems to have a lighter more playful feel...



.
[Edited 6/22/06 12:13pm]

whoknows said:

Hmmm. I think that's a fairly controversial approach as you will outrightly have to admit to total subjectivity based on the receptiveness of your own personal emotional life (!) when expressing your views to others (which on the other hand is a discourse based on reasoning). Relying on subjectivity is fine, but then one should be a bit more careful about not making their statements seem like they were the documented consensus. For instance, no professional music critic should favour this kind of an approach, and they're taught not to. Altough I admit it's hard to avoid, and requires always a degree of pretension. Of course it's all based on subjectivity in the end, the stupidity of musical discussions in general of course is that people always have to automatically assume that a number of other individuals are without a doubt sharing their opinion, altough most of the time there certainly is no valid proof of that available. You're always addressing a concrete group of individuals based on the support of an imaginery one. That's the strangeness of it.

Basically I was just criticizing your "org's strangeness" argument with all of this though, of course you're free to have your own ear.

CalhounSq said:

I like melodies and CYFMLAY and Surrender just don't have strong enough choruses for me. Holding Onto You, WDHTMTT, TTDRD, IYGBM and IBS stand out more for me from that album. You missed out Castillian Blue from SOD as well. Just my opinion.

I think Introducing The Hardline is his best album by far, and one of the best debut records ever! Symphony or Damn and Vibrator are both quite strong albums too, but I prefer Vibrator altho I only like 3 tracks. Vibrator, Supermodel Sandwich and Supermodel W/Cheese. Only heard a few from Wildcard but it sounds good, altho not nearly that of his earlier work, he will never top his first album.

FunkJam said:

I agree totally. Most normal people agree but I think there's a tendency among more heavy fans to not want to go along with the obvious or populist choice. Also among hardcore fans there's snobbery to anything too poppy. It's called not seeing the forest for the trees though and it's bullshit.

whoknows said:

1. What are "normal people"?

2. When people are fans of someone, they usually know more stuff that person has produced than the average customer does. For example, most people here will know Prince's "The Truth", most people outside the fanbase never heard a single note from it. When people know more of an artist's work, it's only logical that they will have some favourites outside of the array of work known to Joe Public. How is that snobbery?

3. Everyone here respected your opinion, why do you call other people's point of view "bullshit"? Unless you have something more substantial to contribute, we must assume that you are only here for trolling.

whoknows said:

Sorry, but you're doing it again. That's not a terribly good way to express an opinion.

EmancipationLover said:

You should know that I usually have a mischievous smile on my face when I type that type of thing. That's my style. You'll get used to it.

Certainly, but I do think sometimes they can get so deep into an artist that they lose perspective or they want to redress the balance when one album or group of songs is respected at the expense of others.

Novabreaker said:

See comments above. Hey, I'm just glad this thread is near 3 pages. Usually the pygmy threads( Janet , Madonna, etc.) will run endlessly while these ones die a slow death.

whoknows said:

Okay. I'm slowly getting used to your style. You're just aggressive, and at least you do bring all kinds of nuances to the conversation for people to grasp onto.

whoknows said:[quote]

EmancipationLover said:

Sorry, but it's hard to see your face expression through the internet. If you want to make clearer how you mean something, there's a link on the left hand side called "emoticons"...

I still do not get your second point. The average pop music listener only knows TTD for his 80s work from his debut album and maybe for "Delicate". So he or she will say "TTD, wasn't that the guy who had some hits in the 80s and than that little follow-up in the 90s. Yeah, he was really good in the 80s". Such a person can't come to a different conclusion than to say "TTD's first album was the best", simply because it's all he/she knows. A fan who knows his complete work may come to a different conclusion, but that has nothing to do with "snobbery".

Let's take a look at, let's say, Prince's 90s work. Most people will only remember "Diamonds & Pearls" (by far his best selling 90s album) and its hits. Therefore, their conclusion has to be "D&P clearly is Prince's best 90s work". When I say I disagree and say that I think that, let's say, the Symbol album or TGE are superior, then it doesn't make me an idiot, it simply means that I know stuff the average listener doesn't know, for the simple reason that I'm a fan.

whoknows said:

How many pages a thread has is dependent on your preferences that you can change under "My Org". You only have more than one page for sure if a thread has 200+ posts (limit per page).

Back on topic, I'd like to see this thread getting lots of replies that do not consist of Nova's and my attempts to make it clear to you that your style can be very unusual at times, to say the least...

EmancipationLover said:

I mostly agree with what you are saying . I love each and every track on Vibrator, it contains my favourite song "Holding On To You" and the title track is also one of my favourite songs ever.

SYMPHONY OR DAMN & VIBRATOR are MY 2 favorite T.T.D. CD's!!!!! And, YES, "Do You Love Me Like You Say You Do" is the "QUADRUPLE JAM & A HALF"!!!!!
People early on confused him for a "Prince Wanna-be". It's safe to say...NOT!!!!!

EmancipationLover said:

I agree with most of that. My point is though that SOMETIMES hardcore fans will shun an obvious choice for something more esoteric because they don't want to go with the crowd. Let's say Alanis's Jagged Little Pill. I'm sure if you spoke to some of her biggest fans a lot of them would tell you that some of her subsequent albums have been just as good. You see it all the time. It's called Too Much Time On Your Hands Syndrome and is known to be fatal in some cases.

whoknows said:

Yes, some fans ignore the obvious. But Terence only really had one hit record, so it's not surprising that many fans' favorite would not have been that one popular album but one of the many unpopular ones.

whoknows said:

And you do it again. All very fine points, then you take it to a personal level with the last sentence. Why? And it doesn't even make sense. If you really dig someone and know all his records, what does that have to do with "too much time on your hands"? You are on a Prince fansite here, so I assume you know more Prince stuff than the average person (who probably only knows 1999, Purple Rain, the song Kiss and maybe D&P). Do you have too much time on your hands too?

Novabreaker said:

Totally agree with this. I actually think Vibrator is a better album than Symphony. One can't really speak with authority in respect of which album is better because it really comes down to personal preference.

EmancipationLover said:

Fucking hell!! Lighten up dude! Do you have to take everything so literally? I know more P songs than the average person yes, but that's NOT the point. It's not about knowing more of an artist's material. It's about burying your head so deep in it that you lose objectivity. Believe me, it's common among heavy fans of any artist. There are P fans who rate NPS higher than 1999.

ecnirpnz said:

I like Vibrator too. In fact in terms of sound I actually prefer it to SOD. It's got a deeper, richer sound which is right up my street. But in terms of pure songwriting I find SOD more consistently satisfying. I also liked Neither Fish Nor Flesh.

this song is one of the best james brown songs jb never recorded. brilliant!!

NDRU said:

I am the same way...its ok...but incredibly incosistant. I like songs on there but as a whole its hard to listen to. Same with Fish and Fantasy or whatever the hell that one is called. LOVE I'll Be Alright, Side of Love, and Attracted To You...the rest kinda blows.

His best by far is Symphony or Damn followed by the debut. S/D is one of those rare albums that is experimental and accessable at the same time. Killer songs from beginning to end.