Just wondering - Prince seems to be one of the most bootlegged musicians around - what do you all reckon a bootlegger will get for the "master tapes"? I don't refer to what's in it for the "record company" (e.g. Moonraker), but for the actual person who made the copy of the concert/of the studio recording and is selling it.

And - second question - who are the people who got access to the studio recordings/the vault?

And - anybody know something about legal actions taken against bootleggers?

Lastly - this is not implying that I got some hot stuff from Prince that I want to sell, it is just that I am curious about the "business" of bootlegging.

Krid said:

Money - the main cost to the bootlegger is time, making quality copies is a very cheap process, which means the bootlegger is going to be willing to pay substantial amounts for quality 'masters' to record from. Well, that's my anyway.


I don't know, but I'd hazard a guess that langebleu could tell you. langebleu ?


one for langebleu again.

I'd be interested to know this too...though this discussion would probably fare better at HQ.com

Your second question has a few answers...Friends of Prince whom he gave stuff to. Many of these people he is not friends with and I am sure pissed off some of them. That would be a source of angst and bootlegs.

Bobby Z I heard was one where many of the early stuff came from...or any of the studio people. Not sure, but if any songs were left around anyone could have made copies...Prince was not at Paisley the whole time. The Bobby Z/studio person rumor is feasible. It would explain why there could have various studio mishaps and eventual studio clean ups..so he or whomever could release these songs a few times to make more money..create a demand.

And the Prince has released some of this as well.. IMO.

And then there are the traders...those that make the recordings and trade them out. There's really so much out there, it's hard to pinpoint where it all comes from. Moonraker and Thunderball seem to have been replaced with Fans putting out their own stuff. Technology is also making the boots much easier to be traded/sold via ebay and the internet. Fans can make their own artwork/cd's and dvd's with out any problem.

Remember back in the day when it was you and your immediate friends trading tapes and maybe going to a swap to get more. Now we are all in the know at almost the same time around the world.

1.I belive at this time many off the bootlegs are coming from the(INSIDE)people that work for Prince.In the past much of it was comming from Prince him self.HOW?Prince was always giving out-Live stuff and outtake 2 his FRIENDs in the 80's.So much of the suff out there is SOUNDBOARD-It has 2 be INSIDE if it is SOUNDBOARD!
2.Nothing should be done 2 the bootlegs-I love the idea that I can hear show after show nite.It is a great soars of in4mation.Diffent set lets,diffent riffs-It is so great.
3.Prince will always be the most Bootleg person out the because of the STRONG FAN BASIC!!And people like me that will EVERYONE that come out.

I'm sure some are in it for the money, but honestly I can't believe that is a prime motivation. I mean no one lives in a mansion off of bootlegs. I recently dipped my toes into the boot market and I am JUST BLOWN AWAY by what's out there... the sheer magnitude and quality of it. I have heard things that just sent SHIVERS down my spine and I haven't heard that from an "official" Prince recording in a long time. In many ways its like being able to go back to 1983-4-5-6 and finding a new PR or PARADE or LS.

So for myself, I got into it out of curiousity and I stay in it for the sheer breathtaking experience of the music itself. The thrill of the hunt, the discovery, and the reward!!

It really is fun. And you know what else? Its a SIN that Prince isn't doing it himself. He could hire a couple of people to edit/master this stuff and if he put out a live album and DVD from each tour I would buy them in a hearbeat. So would lots of other people.

Until he gets smart enough to do that we'll just have to keep getting them via the boot market!

krebsne said:

I couldn't agree more. I mean, look at the reissues/special edition of PR, UTCM and GB? We are all clamoring to get them! He has such an enormous and ravenous fan base out there, and if it's possible, he could really be raking in the $$ and pleasing everyone even more than he does now. Can someone let him know this please?

Krid said:

I guess, in effect, you are asking how did the unreleased studio material find its way out.

My own belief is that, in the past, Prince's method of controlling this material was less watertight than it is today. Material could emerge in a number of ways, I suspect.

I understand (but I've no first-hand evidence) that Prince would sometimes have tapes made up of songs which he would give to friends as presents.

At other times, (as has previously been reported by at least one person that had some studio involvement) the chain of people involved in the recording and mastering process means that tapes at some stage also pass(ed) out of Prince's immediate control - or were just left lying around. In such circumstances, I guess it's quite possible that someone has an 'opportunity' to dub a copy of a tape.

I suspect from what I've read that this is the way material emerged.

I don't personally subscribe to the school of thought that Prince deliberately leaked much, if any, material. (I'm not counting those occasions when he pressed up copies of 'Gett Off' and sent them to radio stations, for example.)

I simply think he was working so much, and there was so much material flying around, that in the past he paid less attention to control of the material than he does nowadays. And as much as people would dearly love to hear his music, he really has the right to decide what he wants heard, so I don't blame him exercising the control he does.


All I know is what I've read, seen on the internet or what has been told to me.

If Prince believes someone is promoting material over which he believes he holds copyright and he decides to take action, then his legal team are likely to send/fax/email a letter requesting the practice ends as soon as possible.

In the past, I understand that Prince's lawyers have threatened further legal action against people who are unwilling to comply.

There are at least two people who subscribe to this site that I believe have received legal letters claiming copyright infringement.

http://www.mtv.com/news/a...ince.jhtml

http://www.prince3922.fre..._DVDs.html


.

DiminutiveRocker said:

Ok. Does anyone here actually think Prince does not know how much $$$ he can make? Even I have said this...but it is obvious he must know this and chooses not to do this. He records practially everything...it would be easy to do. Not sure why he doesn't do this. He may when he retires.

Not sure where boots are coming from these days... The outtakes have dried up...but the live stuff still gets out there. To me that tells me that P is no longer giving out the vault...or that at a certain time...he cut off the juice to those boots (around the time of High).

The criminal term for this is called Piracy.

If you get caught in the uSA it's 5-25 years in prison though I doubt you will get anything more than probation for a first time offense.

There was a record store that sold boots in the Villle and they were visited one day by US Customs and a moving van.25% of their store was gone.Now you rarely find boots in their store.

ravewithdawn said:

Not true at all, if we're talking outtakes sure, actually maybe. He gives songs like that to girlfriends and love ones as well as bandmates or engineers so its not REALLY an inside job if its a girlfriend or a love ones was given those songs for free. Also, if we're talking LIVE then, absolutely it doesn't HAVE to be an inside job. The reason its CALLED soundboard is that someone takes a recorder and hooks it up to the soundboard and hits record, it can be anyone..anyone who can sneak near the soundboard and do this. Now it a bit harder since Prince has security around the soundboard.

rudedog said:

you said it perfectly. Not really an inside job at all...unless someone snuck it. From what I undersatnd many of the outtakes are soundboard...but didn't necessa leak out of the park.

Hello.
I have some personal knowledge of the way that recording was done (at least in the past) by Prince. An amazing amount of trust was placed in his employees. The opportunities existed for those who would take advantage of that trust. I'm surprised that a lot more material was never leaked. He had some trustworthy people that weren't interested in taking that chance. Forgive me for being sketchy, I'm sure you understand.

who knows it could be prince (or that evil camille). best way is just to release everything like crystal ball and the black album. I bought those and will buy anything and everything prince puts out there.

I don't believe the rumor about Bobby Z. having been a source. I heard the exact same rumor a couple of years back, only with Dr. Fink's name attached instead. I thought it was a bunch of hoo-ha then, and I think it's a bunch of distorted hoo-ha now.