If you listen to the song "the Ladder" from the 1985 album Around the world in a Day, I think one will realize that the place Prince is at now in his life, is a path he began searching for long ago. Therefore we should not go giving blame to others such as Larry Graham. In the song it says that "everybody wants salvation of the soul"
Maybe that's what he has always wanted, and now if he has it....well peace be with him.

I agree.
The steps he takes, are no easy road. But the reward is great, for those who wanna go.

LookUp2C said:

You are so right , that's the exact line that I was thinking about also.

Yet, why JW?? Why not be a Baptist instead??

rainbowchild said:

a religion is a religion.

I tend 2 agree with the sentiments here. Folks on this board continually slag off Larry Graham for his influence on Prince but spirituality has been in Princes work practically from the beginning certainly TRC is no more a spiritually influenced album than Lovesexy. And both are really great albums.

I personally doubt that Larry brainwashed Prince as some people here seem to think. I think Prince will eventually take what he wants from the JWs teachings and move on in much the way that Muhammad Ali moved on from the Nation Of Islam. Ali certainly doesn't see the white man as a devil anymore.

Much of the complaint here seems to be that Prince don't cuss no more. To me that's no big deal it doesn't in essence change the music. It's hardly the case that Princes music is now bleached of sex there are still sexual references in his work.

Some of the greatest music created was spiritually driven (A Love Supreme anyone?) Princes spirituality to me is a plus in his work not a minus. Does it really matter which doctrine he follows as long as the music is still good?

soulyacolia said:

I think that was very well put
=====
Don't make me sleep on the

I totally disagree.

In the Ladder and throughout Prince's catalog he has borrowed from universal religious concepts of redemption, baptism, salvation, rebirth,etc.

These UNIVERSAL ideas/ideals populate just about every relgion since and including Paganism.

People, myself included, blame Graham for condensing Prince's panoramic, exploratory world view into a narrow lens through which God and humanity are only seen as the Jehovah Witnesses allow.

It's too narrow a view of the Divine and mankind and an insult to an artist who was once a nonconformist who rather than follow traditonal religion, sought to define God on his own to the extent that he birthed the incredible risque image of God as portrayed in Lovesexy.

It's scary to go through life with the rational knowledge that you really can't confirm who God is until you get to the other side. But that's the reality --you just try to discern him as much as you can based on YOUR OWN faculties and wait till the end for proof. I thought Prince was bold and free enough to do that... but apparently he wishes to belive that without meeting his Maker, a man-made book can tell him who the Maker is and just how EVERYONE should live life and get to heaven.

Sad, sad, sad, for a once "free"-minded artist

(who wrote the counter-culture anthem of starfish and coffee.)

SynthiaRose said:

But then aren't you in a sense trying to tell Prince what he should do or how his beliefs should be? I don't think Mr. Graham can convince Prince to do anything that he is not willing to do himself. Face it the man has grown. I myself hope to reach the place in life where he has now gotten. If Prince had decided to become Methodist or Baptist and changed his ways would you still be so negative about his choices?

strawberrydreams said:

Absolutely not. You don't see that in my post. You see someone who exalting Prince to follow the free-minded philosophy he built his music on ...

Also, Graham witnessed to Prince at a low point in his life when Prince had lost his baby. Prince was very susceptible.

Also, as far as the Baptist, Methodist question. sure I'd feel the same, but honestly these denominations are not as restrictive as the JWs and aren't built on the same narrow doctrine.


Prince can grow and change, but to do a 180... to go from an advocate of freedom to a preacher of restrictive dogma. That's rather unbelievable. One has to wonder if he's ever been genuine or indepedent-thinking.

talk to you later.

strawberrydreams said:

then it's unfortunate that he's based his life's journey on such a crap song

SynthiaRose said:

If God ever touches your life, I bet you will do a complete 180 also. I've heard there is no greater joy.

Peace

GrayKing said:

I happen to think that is one of his best songs. It came out when I was thirteen and I liked it then and still enjoy it now. I did not say he had based his life's journey on that song. What I said was that in a sense he has always been looking for the right path to follow. In other words how to get closer to God.
[This message was edited Sat Jun 5 15:14:30 2004 by strawberrydreams]

people want prince to go to hell, just so they can hear "head" in concert

Scrapluv said:

It's sad, but true

strawberrydreams said:

considering the number of other top-notch spiritual songs he put out in the 80's, i wish one of them typified it more than that pile of crap "The Ladder." but unfortunately, as things stand, I agree with you.

one of my favorite prince songs...

This song has always been under-rated, which is unfortunate becoz it really spoke to every1

Once upon a time in the land of Sinaplenty
There lived a king who didn't deserve 2 be
He knew not where he came from
Nor where he was going
He never once said thank U, never please

Now this king he had a subject named Electra
Who loved him with a passion, uncontested
4 him each day she had a smile
But it didn't matter
The king was looking 4 the ladder

Everybody's looking 4 the ladder
Everybody wants salvation of the soul
The steps U take are no easy road
But the reward is great
4 those who want 2 go

A feeling of self-worth (everybody's looking)
will caress U (for the answers)
The size of the whole wide world will decrease (how the story started)
(and how it will end)
The love of God's creation will undress U
And time spent alone my friend, will cease

Everybody's looking 4 the answers
How the story started and how it will end
What's the use in half a story, half a dream
U have 2 climb all of the steps in between (yeah, we ride)

Everybody's looking 4 the ladder
Everybody wants salvation of the soul
The steps U take are no easy road (the steps you take are no easy road)
(it's not that easy)
But the reward is great
4 those who want 2 go (I do)

everybody... everybody's looking (Everybody's looking 4 the answers)
for the answers
everybody wants to know how the story (How the story started)
started and how it will end (started and how it will end)
What's the use in half a story, (What's the use in half a story)
half a dream (half of a dream)
U, U gotta climb, U gotta climb (U have 2 climb all)
all of the steps in between (the steps in between)

everybody,
Everybody's looking 4 that ladder (Everybody's looking 4 the ladder)
Everybody wants salvation of the soul (Everybody wants salvation of the soul)
(salvation)
The steps U take are no easy road (the steps you take are no easy road)
(that's for sure)
But the reward is great (the reward is great)
4 those who want 2 go, (4 those who want 2 go)
those who want 2 go

everybody... everybody wants (Everybody's looking 4 the answers)
an answer
anyone who know how the story (How the story started)
started, how it will end (started and how it will end)
will it be lonely in the world (What's the use in half a story)
What's the use? (half of a dream)
(have 2 climb all)
(the steps in between)

it is such a beautiful song, isn't it

strawberrydreams said:

I love that song. I think its Around the World in a Day's Purple Rain. Today will be the

first day in a long while i'll be able to hear it because I just today got ATWIAD cd.

strawberrydreams said:

Strawberry Dreams. Your debate has now delved from discussing the topic to discussing my personal relationship with 'god'.

If you must know, I have touched the Divine (I don't believe in humans being passive and 'being touched.' ) and I define Her on my own not in conjunction with man-made religion. I don't belive in a 'god' or ruler as you would say, so in that respect i could be considered an atheist.

That's besides the point (but since you went there).. and i could say if you researched the beginnings of religion you'd find very little to believe in). But I won't insult you. You may believe what you wish. I won't tell you what to believe, as I don't want Prince telling me.

Now, no strong debater needs to go insulting people or using the weak logic that my religious position affects my reasoning or analysis.

I have my position. I've stated it. Read it as another point of view.

SynthiaRose said:

I respect your point of view.....that is what this site is all about. And no, you could'nt insult me if you tried. I belive in God and if you don't that's something that I hope you will change your mind about in the future. I wish you nothing but peace and happiness no matter what path you decide to go.

Peace

Now aren't you just sugary.

*puke*

So what's the thumbs down for?

SynthiaRose said:

Tx Synthia...u exactly pinpointed the difference..the difference u can hear between Lovesexy and TRC...and yes it is a sad thing.

SynthiaRose said:

I really do try
Not!
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 7:45:06 2004 by strawberrydreams]

mrdespues said:

It was just an error

Scrapluv said:

Basically....