i was listening to many recordings of concerts from period of jam of the year-new power soul tour,and i have noticed that
his guitar playing from that period was very weak.
i don't know what is the reason for that,maybe he didn't practise.

you can see my point if you listen to recordings from that period,
and after you give a listen to the later stuff(2000-2004) and you'll see amazing diffrence.

also i noticed that in that 1997-1999 period he didn't use his trademark fatt distortion sound,insted he used some awful sintetic distortion that is very anooying(at least to my ears.)

very observant of u.
they were weak. very uninspired too. i concluded that he must not have been practicing.
and yes it sounds like he might have been using some digital crap for guitar sounds. very annoying indeed. just wasn't warm.

thebanishedone said:

i dunno, he wasnt really playing much. he wasnt even playing much on the ONA tour either. i hope hes got some guitar in the new shows, even if its not him playing it.

he spends all his practice time walking around toronto knocking on doors passing out watchtower pamphlets

thebanishedone said:

I think I agree with you but there were also some moments of greatness, though I ´m not a musician so I don´t know about techniques but you could feel it sometimes. The lawsuits also pop up to mind when you mention those years, the Crystall Ball fiasco, shutting down websites and Larry Graham´s omnipresence but let´s give the a man a break. I mean you do have a point and I kind of agree with you but I see that phase in his life as some sort of transformation and katharsis after all that´s happened, good and bad.
I think it was a dark and weird phase which also had its influence on his guitar playing.

I don´t want to speculate about the other routes Prince could have gone but after the the ups and downs from 1993 to 1999 and maybe 2000, if you´re into numerology, he came out as the victor.
Still, as I said above, he still did some stuff I really, really like , for instance The War and a lot of good performances.
And you can hear it in his current guitar playing and the positive vibe he´s sending out. I kind of see the turning point somewhere between recording TRC and the ONA tour. The man is radiating and mentally and emotionally in a better state than 1997-99.
Some of his music even makes one curious about the next release again.

just take a look on the "cafe de paris aftershow" video and you'll see that he's not missing practice on guitar!!!

cafe de paris was ok,he haD Some moments of briliance but he was lousy in those years.

i think that's bullshit. sorry, but my ears tell me something different as a guitarist/muso myself.

and i think it's even bigger bullshit when people say that prince is better now on guitar than he was in the eighties....in my opinion, he's excellent, but he's never gotten any better than in the eighties, he's sort of changed a few things with his effects and stuff, but he's basically always been at a high level of musicianship on guitar. in fact, any instrument.

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[This message was edited Sun May 2 20:34:40 2004 by mrdespues]

Couldn't agree more with this post...

Saw Prince in Philly on the JOTY tour, and I can't remember him even playing guitar - I'm sure he did, but nothing I can recall.

The Rave/New Years DVD was perhaps one of his worst performances on guitar that I have seen (preserved for posterity and offically released of course!).

The last three years have been his best as far as pure live musicianship, especially as a guitarist. He's always been great, but his control is unbelievable.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

? He was the only guitarist out there.. and it was always strapped to him..

he played a lot in this period.

yeah his guitar playing on rave 2000 was totaly unispired.
but even that night he truly shined on she's always on my hair,american woman and red house blues.
purple rain intro was ok also.

[b]are you fucking joking

his guitar playing on purple house/purple rain is one of the best hes ever done

I love when some person on the internet can call one of our generations greatest guitarist "lousy".



funny

nero

neronava said:

secind that emotion..

Dont misinterpretate my lines.-i never said prince is a lousy guitar player.he is amazing he is my guitar hero.
but in the period of 1997-1999 his playing was definetly lacking compared to the stuff he did latter or before that period.
liste to fly away guitar solo ,
listen to how he struggles to play fast,
after that listen to henophobia from one nite alone los angeles,
there he plays lighting speed fast.tell me you don't see the diffrence.
listen to his weak version of hendrix villanova junction from 1998 tour ,
and after that listen to paris rex aftershow and his amazing rendation of villanova junction,
after that tell me you don't see the diffrence.

i agree with this post
but he did have some good stuff out
the holy river solo
damned if i do etc....
i don't think it has to do with practicing more like lack of inspiration!

he had nice guitar solos in 1996,emancipation was recorded in 1996.
i'm talking about 1997-1999.
very strange to me is that he use some sintetic synth like distortion.prince was always in love with fat sounding boss distortion ,not some sintetic shit.

I disagree with this this.....

What instruments do you play????

i am 22 .i play guitar for more then 9 years.i also play piano and bass.

One thing i can say, i can play most of the licks that Prince played on the rave show. And i can´t play the sh_t he is playing nowadays, i don´t even come close. he is playing much better nowadays. Even the let´s go crazy solo he did on RAve was kinda dirt compared to the Purple Rain version. I am sure he was not praticing very much. And 2 years not praticing guitar is VERY much to any player who wanna play fast.

So you've listened to a few JOTY boots and you think you can make a statement about Prince being "lousy on guitar" during this time period. OK, I can see how those tapes brought you to that conclusion, but let's look at the bigger picture, the context, and a few other examples that prove otherwise.

True, the JOTY arena shows did not feature outstanding guitar work. In fact Prince's second guitarist Mike Scott played all of the rhythm tracks and many of the solos. You're also completely right about the crappy synthetic guitar effects...Prince primarily used the symbol guitar on JOTY arena shows and, at the time those guitar effects seemed "cutting edge" or "forward-thinking." Prince was trying to take his guitar tone to a new, futuristic place...but listening to those shows now, in hindsight, the tone sounds fake & crappy.

But this doesn't mean that Prince was "very lousy on guitar." He just made different CHOICES with his band members, set lists and guitar effects.

Further proof comes from Love4OneAnother charity shows in early '97, when Prince let Kat Dyson have the guitar spotlight on many of the tunes. Then, for the New Power Soul Festival shows with Larry Graham and Chaka Khan in '98 and '99, Prince played much more of a "support" or "team player" role, often playing rhythm on the hollow-body guitar that George Benson gave him.

Again, don't make the mistake of judging Prince's guitar skills as "lousy" just because Prince didn't always choose to *DISPLAY* his wealth of guitar skills during these arena shows. There were other times...often, away from the arenas...where he proved his amazing skills.

Here are just a few examples from '97-'99 that prove Prince's guitar mastery during this time period:

1. Key Club, LA, CA summer '98 - After his appearance on the Tonight show (where he displayed FAT tone on the lead line of "Come On," playing a cloud guitar), Prince performed at the Key Club on the Sunset Strip for a few hundred people. He absolutely mowed down the entire house with a guitar INFERNO. Prince whipped out "Love Thy Will Be Done" with a tone so fat it crushed the house. Then he went into "Funky." Absolutely scorching. Ask anyone who attended this show, and they will agree - then they will beg you for a taped copy. Unfortunately, a recording has never surfaced.

2. Cafe de Paris, London, '98 - nice guitar jams throughout the show, and his exquisite picking at the beginning of Chaka's "Sweet Thing" is a master class in that particular technique. His guitar playing is so beautiful here, naysayers melt like candy bars in the sun. Check it out on the "Beautiful Strange" video or the boot cd of the same name. Unfortunately you have to listen to foolishness from Doug E. Fresh throughout the show, but again, that was a CHOICE Prince made (a bad choice, IMO), that had nothing to do with his guitar skills.

3. San Francisco, DNA Lounge After'show' April '97; then again at Club Townsend aftershow, Jan. '98 - Prince played "The Ride" on both of these occasions, two completely different ways, with different guitars, different attitudes, different tone choices, and different playing approaches. Listen to these different versions back-to-back (both are available on Sab's "Late Night Shows" box set). You will hear a guitar master at work, showing different shades of absolute command.

Prince played the angry DNA Lounge April '97 version on another musician's Fender Stratocaster; it was a guitar Prince didn't know and had never played before; and he still tore it up. Contrast that with the Club Townsend version, where Prince allowed a guest to play harmonica with him, while Prince performed a laid-back, lyrical approach on guitar. Hard to believe the same guy is playing both these versions, but that's how good Prince was during this time period.

4. Mountain View, Shoreline Ampitheatre, CA, JOTY Oct. '97 - Carlos Santana and Prince traded licks on "Soul Sacrifice" and Prince was on fire. The existing Sabotage boots don't even do it justice. I witnessed this duel from the tenth row and it was heavenly. Carlos Santana himself was stunned by Prince's guitar skills.

5. Club Utopia Aftershow, Las Vegas, Oct. '97 - As usual, the aftershows were the place to catch Prince doing his best guitar & bass work, when he wasn't confined to "hits" set lists, playing with Mr. Hayes' "loops" and prerecorded backing vocals. Prince displayed astonishing guitar and bass work throughout this entire show.

6. San Diego, April '97, RIMAC Arena and Cane's Aftershow - Prince ripped into "The Ride" at the regular show at RIMAC Arena on the campus of UCSD. Then later, in the wee hours, Prince joined opening band "The Price of Dope" in a tiny club called Cane's in Pacific Beach. He strapped on the hollow body guitar that belonged to the leader of the opening band.

Prince proceeded to drop every jaw in the place with cascades of fluid guitar notes on "Johnny" and "18 & Over." The guy who handed him the guitar started crying. I talked to that gentleman after the show and he was truly shaken. He said he had played and practiced on that guitar for many years, but he never dreamed of seeing his guitar played like that.

I could go on...but the simple fact is, Prince wasn't "lousy" on guitar from '97-'99. He constructed arena shows that didn't fully display his guitar skills, but those skills were ALWAYS there, just waiting to come out in the right situation.

temptation dont get me wrong ,in that time 1997-1999 i was worshiping every show from that period that were on the bootlegs,maybe i was way too subjective about prince,but now days his guitar playing on live shows,especialy from one nite alone toure is way way much better then anything he did on 1997-99 period.

thebanishedone said:

I agree with you 100%. Nothing can touch him now! From 2002 to the present, he is playing with focused ferocity and unbelievable skill.

Let me go put on Vega Aftershow 2002 soundboard for a strong taste...right now!!

His playing now is definitely on point like no other time period. I saw him in 1996..not sure what the name of the tour was..in Philly and he hardly played the guitar...as a matter of fact...I don't know if he even picked it up once that night. Booooo.

Temptation said:

Practice makes perfect...even for a professional genious!

I can't say that I've been to a lot of shows, but I've seen a few and heard several live shows on bootleg.

I attended the Columbus Musicology show and he tore it up on guitar. He played the thing almost constantly. I'd say he had a guitar in front of him for 80% of the show. The licks where clean, clear and as Temptation aptly describes, ferocious. But then again...that pretty much describes the whole show. Very well rehearsed and on point. Not a lot of slop or down time where the music jammed on past the point of being interesting.

Whatever is happening to cause the perceived (real or not) increased quality in his playing...LET IT CONTINUE!

I get the feeling Prince gets in this "safe mode" of where he knows the least he needs to do to still wow them. But once & while he just turns it on & most of the time is when he sees how the audience is going to be like when he gets on stage. He tests us.

2002 Prince's show ONA in NYC was amazing! That same night he did allot of the Aftershow disk! now listen to that guitar!

I think Prince has an "A Game" and shows it once and awhile, thats why he asks "Is that going to hold you", then decides if he should blow you off the stage OR just finish up and leave.

now Prince's "B & C Game" is still better then everyone playing the instrument! But it is just something I notice seeing him Live & on dvd so many times.

leon said:

I immidiately thought of this show too. That bit in Don't Talk to Strangers where Chaka hits the high note, and Prince blends straight into that for the guitar solo, that was classic Prince.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Eh? I don't know which ONA show you saw, but at the one I attended he did nothing but play guitar!! And it was AMAZING guitar.

And what about The War, from 1998? He sure tears the shit outta guitar on that motherfucker.

Temptation said:

yeah!