in the words of Charlie Brown....

"GOOD GRIEF!"

TipN4U said:

oh lawd!

let's leave the talking in mazes to prince, ok?

Well, I found a satanic radio station and Prince is not on the playlist.

http://www.radiosatan666.com/

laylow03 said:

Thank u very much 4 ure dilligence.


The ignorant are everywhere, be encouraged.

this thread was hilarious
PRince Symbol is a combination of male female and alchemy symbo

Anxiety said:

Wow!!! This is some very interesting stuff you guys are sending me. Thanks. VERY interesting, indeed!

Hiin: I remember way back when people were conjecturing about P's name (all letters of his three names equal 6; hence, 666, therefore people were saying that P is the antichrist).

RupacShakur: That is quite interesting about your interactions with that woman who was saying that God wouldn't allow P's baby to survive because of the evil throughout P's bloodline. Wow! I've often heard people say that P's baby died because God is punishing him for all the wrong that he did. I also heard that the baby had feet in the shape of hoofs. That's not necessarily scary, but it is thought-provoking the theories that exist about P and his supposed "evil" nature. I do, however, think it's cruel that people would say that about P's baby. There is good and bad in everyone and no one has ever existed on this earth who hasn't commited awful sins or made mistakes in their lives. P is human *I think* just like everyone else...

This is truly wild. Thank you guys.

jstarr2000 said:

I believe that you are right. I was just sharing this information, not because I wanted to pass judgement, but just to get everyone's opinion. As a Christian as well, I prayed about whether or not secular music was right for me. The answer I received is that faith is NOT about what you do or what you do not do. It's not about following some strict code of conduct or an ritualized doctrine. No, it's about what's in your heart. I feel that those who see P has evil and for whom God has told them not to listen to P's music, that's good for them. The person who sent me this email may or may not chose to listen to P ever again. He/She might indeed burn all of her P CD's. But that's completely up to him/her. I, for one, do not think that P is evil. He may have done some evil things...as we've all done. But I don't think he's the antichrist. Anyway, I'm glad that ya'll are responding because I think this is an interesting topic.

I thank you and everyone for sharing...and not flaming

MoneyMade said:

Thank you for all of this information. I'll read further. QUITE INTERESTING...

If anybody gets on stage w/ him to dance, just throw some holy water on him & see what happens.Problem solved

I do wish he would rotate that upside-down pentagram on his purple guitar strap, but that's just me.


[This message was edited Mon May 3 8:29:21 2004 by digitalelectric]

Hmmm... I already knew about the 1999 upside down thing, but this is a little scary.

I think all of P's symbolism and cosmic references just makes his tunes a little deeper and establishes a feeling of lore so that he isn't just a pop icon. He has to give people something to think and talk about. You don't want to just say "It has a great beat and it's easy to dance to".

P likes to fawk with people lol
thats the real reason lol

I love this thread.

First off, some of this info you have is just plain wrong. The ankh is NOT a part of Princes symbol at all. The Ankh is also not "satanic " at all. It is an egyptian heiroglyph, meaning "life". Mayte wore this symbol a lot during the 'symbol' years, but it wasn't a part of Prince's symbol.

Second, Prince's symbol evolved quite a bit over the years. At first it was just a combination of the "Mars" and "Venus" symbols, which represent male and female (this symbol first appeared on the "1999" album cover art. Look hard, its there). All the different versions of it have been a variation on this theme. In 1992, he unveiled the version that would later stand in for his name:

The combined the male/female glyph with that of Soapstone, an ingredient used in Alchemy. Now, to automatically declare alchemy to be "witchcraft" is to ignore a whole lot of history on the subject. Alchemy started as a bona-fide scientific attempt to transmute lead and other substances into gold. Now, this may seem ridiculous to us now, but you have to realise that in the dark ages, science was in a very different place. Eventually, the Catholic church declared it sinful (since it was the pursuit of wealth), and then later declared it "witchcraft". Alchemy was then considered a heresy punishable by death (it should also be noted here that the church at this time believed cats to all be witch's familiars, and ordered them destroyed. This eventually led to vermin overrunning the population, and spreading the fleas that brought about the plague. I would hardly consider the Church at this time to be a very sensible establishment).

Now, the Golden Dawn organization that you sited has been around since the 1800s. Like many of these groups (such as the rosicrucians), many of their beliefs and traditions incorporated various things previously declared "heretical" by the Catholic Church. In the 1800s, especially in England, there was a strong Occult movement. Many dabblers in these fields (such as Aleister Crowley and HP Blavatsky) sought out knowledge they felt had been oppressed by the church. Naturally, they ran across alchemy. In a time when scientific dicoveries were occuring constantly, many dark-age traditions sounded much more like sorcery than they did science. Thus, these occultists included alchemy, alongside tarot and astrology.

Where does Prince's incorporation of the soap stone symbol come in. Well, I think its more metophoric than anything. If you look at the themes being explored at the time on his albums, there is a common thread: change. Prince was "transmuting" himself into a new, "golden" persona. On "Endorphinmachine" he sings "every now and then there comes a time U must defend your right 2 die and live again". This theme of resurrection and rebirth was metaphoric, not literal.

To protest Warner owning his works (the works authored by Prince) he dropped his name in favour of a symbol he had created. At the time, he had found Mayte, and believed her to be his soulmate. This uniting of the male and female, illustrated in the Biblical based "and God Created Woman", was very well represented by his "love symbol" (as his fans had called it for years). In the Bible, when man and woman are joined, they become "one body", returning to the state that God originally intended. Prince, no doubt, felt that Mayte made him "whole". This metaphor, combined with another symbol (one that, in itself, also incorporates the male and female symbols) that is used to represent the changining of a dull, valueless metal into a beautiful, treasured one is a very powerful metaphor indeed. Prince was, in his mind, moving in a new direction, one that was better than the place he had been before. He even went so far as to declare Prince "dead"

Now, the whole thing with Prince's face being in the shape of a Baphomet on "The Rainbow Children" is probably the single biggest reach of them all. At this point, Prince had dropped the symbol name, and had embraced the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The lyrics to to the album are steeped in the teachings of this religion, and are decidedly oppossed to any worship other than that of the one, true God, Jehovah. (It should also be noted that this album has two different lines that address Satan. First off, on the track "Muse 2 The Pharoah" when he warns that the devil will come diguised as "light", and later on "Family Name, when he tells the Devil that his time is up, and that God has already won the war he is planning)

It is understandable that some folks will read much into Prince's cryptic words and symbols, but an analysis should first be made into his lyrics, and his own philisophical leanings (which have always been of a Christian bent, even since the early days of his career). Likewise, a little research into history will do some good. Some fundamentalists groups feel that all non-Christian symbols are "evil" (even things such as Egyptian heiroglyphs), but this is plain silly. A symbol is, just that, a symbol. Even the Baphomet, that you site earlier, did not start off as a "satanic" symbol. The Catholic Church decared it so, and it was later adopted by Satanists for this very reason. Heck, I even attended a church once that tried to claim a peace symbol was 'satanic'. Well, a symbol is only evil if that is what you read into it. Personally, I don't view Prince's symbol as being "satanic" at all, and I think its a real stretch to fit that kind of meaning to it.

NouveauDance said:

Phew...I finally did something right without the flames. Oh wait...here they come again! Oh, well...

GREAT TOPIC!

I will read all above in a bit. I think one can read whatever they want to. Like they say in the movie PI ...If you look hard enough for something, you will find it...and you'll see it in everything.

I have always been facinated with all of the religious imagry and innuendo (and some of it isn't subtle at all). I have seen all kinds of crazy things in reference to Prince i.e. some religious TV program saying P is satanic and so is his music blah blah blah..even though he praises God and says he's religious...etc.

Personally, I have always thought he sold his soul to the Devil a long time ago. I say this half jokingly.

Love is God, God is Love, girls and boys love God above!

Zelaira said:

Someone pointed out to me that somewhere on Graffitti Bridge he says "God is coming like a dog in heat." The person said that he/she was offended by that phrase. Seriously, I don't ever remember anywhere P saying/singing this line. Anyone know???

[Coincidentially, it was this same person who sent the original message to me.] Just curious...

Zelaira said:

Um..Satanism and Devil Worship are two totally different things...look up the Church of Satan for info

laylow03 said:

Its in the unreleased song "God Is Alive" The actual line is "News is coming like a dog in heat/That he's looking for soldiers with strong feet/that can dance on the backs of those who won't say his name/ God is alive...this is not a game"

laylow03 said:

I hope you don't take my post as a flame. You asked, and I answered with my opinion.

HiinEnkelte said:

and wait, wasn't he born in june? (6th month)... what day???

the alchemic symbolism of gold is an interesting deal, however. he must have copied the design for his love symbol.

JediMaster said:

yes, i've heard this as well. another reason that alchemy has continued to be linked with witchcraft are the references to a famous alchemist (who practiced in prague) in the harry potter books... can't remember his name, off-hand.

as for religion meddling in scientific progress... i just read an example today of church fathers in england who opposed queen victoria's use of anaesthetics in childbirth, because it was somehow violating the bible's prophecy that women would give birth in agony. talk about misapplying scripture! of course none of them ever had babies. well, not personally.

u know its some really disrespectful stuff being said about Prince on this thread...

and the stuff said about his child is beyond reason...his child passed away 2 be with God...that situation is very tragic and sad...


if peeps cant enjoy a few simple songs and enjoy some concert gigs...then move along...

I cant believe some of the shit being said on this thread...

Hi Laylow,
Firstly, i'd like to say, I found your post about the Prince symbol fascinating. I had heard it was similar to soapstone, but when i saw it its a direct match. It looks like that plus the Egyptian Ankh symbol. It was a weird feeling, and no i dont think you are exaggerating, you are making a valid case and have used evidence to back it up.

I also felt that the artwork on TRC looked a bit satanic, plus the fact that there are many refs to "Gold" and "the dawn" around the time he adopted the symbol.

However, I dont though think that Prince is a satanist or anything bad, i think some of it (like the moon and stars meaning witchcraft) is coincidence as the moon and stars are beautiful so why shouldnt Prince wear them?
I dont think he would deliberately wear them if he thought like that. Also the Golden Dawn cult sounds creepy, but maybe thats just a coincidence, as GOLD and DAWN (dawn is gold!) are similar colours.

I also think he does a lot of good and always mentions God in his work, and a lot of his music is about God.
I think the symbol stems partly from his interest in Egyptology, plus the Ankh would suit his lustful image. He also likes mystery so he probably wants to keep us guessing and 'panning for 'Gold. Perhaps he feels this will get people into spirituality in a way other things dont.
.
However, it is a very interesting post and it has certainly made me think and want to research it more. The initial website called Exposing Satanism had symbols that werent necessarily used by satanists, but by other dangerous groups (such as the Nazi symbol), so you cant say it means he's a satanist just because a couple of things are on there. That websites definition seems wide.

Wow! all the crazies together on one thread! i'm taking this opportunity to take some names down!

JediMaster said:

No, I didn't. What I said wasn't directed at you but at others who think this thread is silly. I find it interesting myself and thank you again for your input.

JediMaster said:

I have a documentary on video that has a part where Prince and Mavis Staples are in a studio and he writes down 'God is coming like a dog in heat' and she reads it out and says 'OK!' and then goes on to sing God is alive!

He did write it, but maybe didn't sing it! X

you guys make it sound like prince is the kind of guy that sings about looking into crystal balls, or sings about dancing during the coming appocaloypse that he had a vision about in his dream the night before... or maybe a guy that declares himself your messiah...

honeslty this is the most interesting post on here in a long time.. yeah theres a lot on here taken out of context... like a satanic connection... i'm sure prince is very aware of the symbolism behind portions of his own symbol.. but the truth is that when you creat a new symbol it takes on new meaning... not the meaning of parts of that symbol... many symbols can be similar... and it may have inspired him.. but he has created his own symbol...