First and foremost, this post is not intended to race bait, cause anyone to act ignorant, or initiate a flame war. I simply would like an explanation from those whose "premonitions" are telling them that they are not going to like the [neo]soul sound of the new album. Considering that in 1978 Prince was introduced to the industry as a soul musician, second coming of Stevie, James and Sly etc... why is there a stench about him going full circle and returning to those roots?

mmm...i'd like to know this, too. the thing that gets me about all this is this: all them synth lines p had in the earlier days...don't folks know that some of 'em coulda been and would work out as horn lines? that bein said: why do folks have no trouble with the synth lines, but hate the horns?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

see you're getting ahead of me I was gonna pull that card when somebody said "I'm sick of all of the horns and JB throwbacks.

psykosoul said:

oop! sorry

psykosoul said:

I was listening ever since For You and he was exclusively a black artist then, this is a issue because a lot of folks did not dig or become fans of Prince until Purple Rain.

gman1966 said:

Well, I was gonna get to the fact that a lot of people wouldn't even be here if Prince had never gotten airtime on MTV back in '82 with Little Red Corvette, which just happened to be a crossover vehicle. I wouldn't even say Prince was performing exclusively black music because there was always at least one rocker on each LP from the very beginning. But the majority of people who caught Purple Rain-mania went back and bought the previous albums. What truly baffles me is why people are so caught-up into calling the current output James Brown re-hash, and neo-soul crap when he basically made this type of music before he became a "star".

I dont think this is particularly true, generally people with an open mind and an eclectic taste in music will listen to everything regardless of its 'colour'

This is evident from the British Blues explosion of the 60's.

As for Prince being a soul musician, I dont think you can quite pin him down, he is pure fusion of many styles. I think his fans dont care what genre his latest album adopts as long as he does it well, and i think most of his albums until the late 80's didnt adopt any previous style, it was just Prince and his Prince sound.

Why invent a dichotomy that doesn't really exist among fans? Prince has always worked without respect to genre lines. I hear soulful stuff on For You and Prince but I also hear plenty of pure pop, albeit with his own idiosyncratic twist. As his music got more layered and complex (Parade, Lovesexy) he adopted a kitchen sink approach that incorporates every conceivable influence. I think it's too reductionist to say he is "returning to his roots" just because he happens to be coloring with the funk crayon on one single. We haven't even heard the rest of the album.

jagshrapnel said:

I'm well aware that Prince covers many styles. However, it seems currently the backlash against him here is because of a sound that he entered into the industry with and has pretty much followed through on throughout his career. I'm not just referring to Musicology, but the Rainbow Children is another example (with the exception of the over-use of Darth Vader narration). No artist, once he/she has reached their artistic peak whether rock, pop or soul has been able to out-do himself when it comes to the classic portion of his catalog. The general consensus around here is that Lovesexy was that artistic pinnacle. No matter what someone can find some saving grace that keeps every release since Batman from "sucking". So the question I pose is why all of a sudden are the horns, jazzy-arrangements, JB-like grooves and the sound of soul factors that make Prince's music "suck" and ruined by albums like TRC, ONA Live and Musicology?

freakebear said:

Well "returning to his roots" is just my opinion because that's why I hear. But either way he's returning to a sound that entered the business with: live instrumentation (synths for horns)and songs that were probably born out of jam sessions. And I've never seen one person call the first two LPs crap. Besides, Warner Brothers didn't market him as pop, did they? It took about 7 years before they did that. What's amazing is how many people are instantly shitting on this project based upon that one funk crayon. But it just might be a fair assumption that the entire album will be another jazzy, soul outing based upon the current band line-up and the arrangements that they have played.

I think fans miss the 'Prince' sound, Prince used horns extensively on Parade-SOTT-Lovesexy, but it was undeniably Prince.

Musicology (the single) just doesnt have the Prince sound as it sounds like hes trying to hard to immitate another sound. The 'Rave' album was his attempt to sound Ravey (I guess) and he needs to keep well away from hip-hop and reggae as it sounds like band-wagon jumping, when normally hes whipping the horses behind!

jagshrapnel said:

But Prince didn't have a "sound" until he released Controversy. If the Linn Drum machine was never invented he probably wouldn't have a "sound" I think Prince got all the use he's gonna get outta that sound because there's not much left to do with it. Why not let the Outkasts and D'Angelo's of the world have it and rehash it? They are more likely to expose it to a new generation. Rave was his attempt to re-capture that sound and show the world who revolutionized it but it just didn't work. I will agree that Musicology, the single, isn't strong. But Prince has imitated JB several times throughout his career and this song is a lot better than a lot of his over-produced stuff from the late 90s. What is it that makes this song more awful than "Kiss" or "Sexy M.F."
[This message was edited Wed Mar 24 18:35:16 2004 by psykosoul]

I actually think parts of the 'Prince' album where the start of his sound, that tight guitar/synth combo of the classic 'I Feel For You', but thats not the point. I think he really did pick up fans when he got that sound fine-tuned.

On the latest single, there just isnt any magnificent musicianship or hook. 'Kiss' did, and even tho im not a fan of 'Sexy MF', it still had attitude and that relentless snare-driven rhythm.

Seriousley, any of the half-decent musicians on Prince.org could knock out that loop hes using on Musicology.

On another related note, I just heard Lenny Kravitz's new single and it suffers the same problem, weak hooks/safe sound and safe production - listen to that then listen to Always on the Run.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

This is weird because the synths replacing the hornlines was one of the major things that intrigued me about his music. But then he replaced or added real horns (back in the eighties with ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT and ever since) and has really become enamored with them at least in his stage show. I guess it seems that the keys are now placed second in line to the horns and are not used as horn replacements but just keyboard "embelishments" that kind of bring him to a old-soul flavor so to speak. I do like his bring the old elements to his sound with certain songs and projects but I would like some more of that synth-fried geetar rock back as part of it as well.

I think it's the horn reworkings that make people feel his sound is "Vegas" now and I would tend to agree somewhat.

SENSHY said:

now there's a legitimate answer I'm looking for. Thank you for not saying "It sucks because it just fucking sucks" Although I do think "Vegas" became a staple of the live/studio act once the NPG Hornz were hired for the Diamonds & Pearls and albums. I just don't get why these aspects are a big deal now.

psykosoul said:

Heres why they are a big deal to "some" non objective people:

Because with D&P tour he was still Prince as a freak

He had not went and sued websites

He had not "disappointed" some folks who clung to his freak etc identity to fortify their own

many of these factors and more tarnished the objectivity of the complainers ( as well as the net creating social factors where one could belong to a group forsaking sensible reaction to the music). So many factors have "tarnished" the muisic and objectivity. Not saying that Prince cant put out crap because he can but some who became non objective etc over-generalize when they say they do not like the horns. his new output, and other aspects of the man.

Now from an objective point of view, I think some people's dissappointment in his curtrent sound is due to the..how do I explain?.."average arrangment" that he uses them in? In other words he isn't as "out there" when he composes anymore. Which is what was so attractive about his music to many ( me included). He seems to be arranging his music in typical ways instead of his taking chances and doing things off kilter. He is going back to everyday ways of recording, producing, and arranging. This may be his way of being "old school" style. Thats just my take on it, hope I made sense lol.

[/The general consensus around here is that Lovesexy was that artistic pinnacle. quote]

Damn, I thought i was alone

Could Prince's increasing wallet over time account for the gravitation to horns? Basically, as he became more successful (certainly by the Purple Rain era), he could afford to pay horn players and have them all the time.

He always idolized James Brown & Sly, whose music styles relied upon horns. Maybe as he got richer, he was finally able to have what he'd only synthesized up till then? I agree that the change hasn't been without a downside: The horn lines tend to be more traditional and less funky, less serpentine than the former synth lines. They also tend to be less central to the overall structure of the song.

It's kind of like Stevie Wonder's move from drumming wonderfully on his 1970s masterpieces to using tired drum programming since the 1980s. Yeah, he'd made enough money to invest in higher-tech gadgets, but he'd let go of that magical, simpler thing.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Exactly. That's what's great about the new tour...many of the old syth heavy tunes (which I love) with a funky azz band and HORNS. OMG!

jbell said:

Completely agree, I think it was his last GREAT album. No fillers and had a consistent flow, and i dig the horns on that.

ThreadBare said:

Thanks for saying what I couldn't express about "traditional" sounding. However I remember reading something about him not wanting to sound like EWF etc and other bands who used horns, in print wayyyy back when. Not sure how true the quote was though. But it does seem he had no desire for horns until he came into his own and he saw another band(spoken on at a later date and anpother post in future) that he felt he wanted a traditional band or at least incorporate traditional instrumentations into his stage act ( see Sheila E's band back in 84-86). Because the vibe he was on on Dirty Mind etc was def not into any traditional horns. I believ ehe wanted ot be out there in some aspects and didnt want to be Rick James and The Stone City Band.

SENSHY said:

And, it's funny that I hear an approximation of that old synth style of his on the Neptunes-produced Kelis album. They don't do it nearly as well, where you're humming the synth hooks for the rest of the day (like say, Sexy Dancer or I Feel For You).

he's just putting himself in the spotlight without loosing respect. there's no risk of embarresment in musicology. there's a huge amount of risk in a tight blue suit a blue dred lock and a hit single called the greatest romance ever sold.

psykosoul said:

good question

the soul in prince does

tend 2 bring out an interesting

response in some peeps

funk and soul music is closer

2 the root of all music so i'm

glad prince never turned

his back on his roots

sumtymes said:

monte said:

co-sign. That dude is 45 years old. I don't wanna ever hear him write a new song about getting "Hot Wit U"