Does the fact that because u didn't live through the music at its current time take away understanding the music completely?

here's what pumponmyfunk said previously on The Black album threadthat made me think about this:

So you're listening to The Black Album almost 15 years after it was created? I can see why U only really like one song. U had to hear it back when it was first created/cancelled...It was def. funky and held next to the Love Sexy album as an artist batteling his own internal demons showed the artistic genius that Prince was...15 years later down the road where Rap is now mainstream Cindy C. is a mom and Prince no longer makes public his internal struggles of religion/lust if he still haves them, it doesn't have the "freshness" that it did back in '88...I personaly prefer Lovesexy but The Black Album def. has a place in the chapters that make up Prince's life...

Now I tend to agree with this statement and I have always felt that but believe it or not my big mouth could not and did not put it to words ..esp. like this..and I wanted to but I was busy my thoughts were rambled

thats why when I was new here Id say ahhh yall dont know!

lol and sounding like a crotchety old timer saying "back in my day...now that was music"

so typical and NOT what I wanted ot be

BUT

let me say this! which may qualify or go against..which is the/my dilemna

Many newer folks or folks who got into the music at a much later date and did not live it at the current time have just as much if not more appreciation for some of the music..right? such as Moonbeam with 1999. for example..and my own lateness in discovering rock acts such as the stones in my youth and zep, etc but not in their heyday of th e early seventies (even they were staples on the radio--I didnt "get" the music at that time)

I have a passion for the music that has got to be at least equal to what folks felt at the current time of release..sure I may not realize the impact or seen the impact as they did because I wasnt at the seminal ocncerts but still


so is it actually safe to say that there may be some missing elelmnents that takes away form ..lets say.."understanding" the music as pumonmyfunk stated

I feel of course that the zeitgeist juxtaposed with the music makes for a more comprehensive understanding ofd the music..bu then again most of music thast we rave about is timelss..it hjas its own zeitgeist each time u play it...maybe thats the thing..

music thats timeless has its own zeitgeist..allowing any and all--those who were current and those who came later..to feel the music just as well..

I kind of am wary about that..because when I put on some records like Black Album , I didnt really appreciate it back then--its th emyth I appreciated of it and some of the jams..now today I inderstand and appreciate it completely even more then th epast..as with Lovesexy and Parade..so sometimes th e zeitgeist can be a hinderance maybe..who know, Im just sayin (babblin).

From shakespear to mozart to Prince art is art regardless of when you discover it.

I also think that in his music and his lyrics Prince is still making public his battles with inner demons

paintsprayer said:

break it down

you're damn right we do. and if we don't, that's one of reasons we should look up to ya'll old-skoolers so we can learn and grow to understand it all.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Define Old Schooler

garnis said:

[snippage. unnecessary comment removed--Dansa]

danielboon said:

please edit that out of this post please

rdhull said:

is this a reply 2 my tongue in cheek question ?

Its strange that things which once seemed radical are now passe.

There are twenty-year old people who can never remember a time before Compact Discs.

Apply the same principal to the music on the discs and I wonder if an 18-year-old gets the same rush from listening to the 12" mix of Kiss as a thirty-something who remembers hearing the single on the radio for the first time. Kiss is almost a standard now... When I first heard it, it sounded like the weirdest, strangest, funkiest thing I'd ever heard.

Listening to Prince in my teenage years seemed dangerous. The Dirty Mind album sounded... dirty. Aside from the lyrics of Sister, a lot of the songs seem quaint now. In 1986, my teenage rebellion included listening to an album which had the word "Motherfucker" in its lyrics. These days, you could walk into your local record store and buy an album called "Fatherfucker".

Lovesexy surprised me first and then thrilled me. It still thrills me but no longer surprises me. I may have lost the sense of surprise but that's counteracted by the nostalgia I've attached to the songs. If I'd first heard Lovesexy two years ago, I wouldn't be surprised by now but would I have the nostalgia to weigh out the loss of surprise?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Right, exactly. It's scary to think, but that's what the Org is all about in my eyes.

If you’re talking about understanding the music, sure it helps greatly to have been there.

But if you’re talking about your ability to enjoy the music, absolutely not.

If music is truly great, it will be great forever. If it was only great during it’s time period, then it’s a fad.

Finding out the history of a given creation can be a very interesting and enjoyable process in and of itself. But I think its twisting things up a bit to say that this is a prerequisite to enjoying the creation.

To switch art forms, when you look at a masterpiece painting, do you need to have an art degree and be able to fully understand the psychological makeup of the artist at the time of creation in order to enjoy it greatly? I don’t think so. Sure, someone who knows of all this background could help speed the understanding process up for you by putting everything in its proper context. But ultimately if your reasons for loving something are based in the intellectual, I’d say you’re only fooling yourself.

A work of art either connects with you or it doesn’t. And you have either given the work of art a fair chance to speak to you, or you haven’t.

If you’re saying you can only truly enjoy “The Black Album” by knowing it in the context of its “freshness”, then I’d say what excites you about music possibly has more to do about it’s cutting edge newness than its actual artistic merits.

I think another factor could be (and we are certainly all guilty of this to one degree or another) in the intertwining of the excitement of our youth with the actual artistic quality of something.

Simply put, there’s no way any artist is going to be able to create the same feelings of wonderment and discovery that I felt when I was 14 and everything seemed new and dangerous. Never mind my elders at the time scoffing at me with a knowing glance as I rambled on about how new and great something was, and that it was in fact newer and greater than anything before. You just don’t understand! They just let me have my fun, leaving me to find out the real truth with age and experience.

Brendan said:

.
[This message was edited Sat Dec 6 18:56:57 PST 2003 by rdhull]

Brendan said:

Wow...

Brendan said:

break

it

down

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I just got "The Black Album" and I was able to appreciate all of it to a large degree. It was difficult because I've heard so much about it over the years, so I had to really concentrate on removing other people's comments from inside my head. However, I was and am continuing to put myself in the "1988/89" mindset of what was going on in the music world and in Prince's world. I was only 15/16 at the time so of course Prince and rap were my favorite musical genres at the time.(I put Prince in his own genre, not R&B, pop, etc.) Now of course I cannot authentically recreate the mindsets but remembering the feel of the "rush" of Prince over my previous coming of age years... Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT...I was able to conceptualize The Black Albums radical importance. I am still working on it as I am still "getting an ear" for "Bob George" and "Superfunkycalifragisexy". Of course I wish I had had the means to obtain it back when it was cancelled/released or soon thereafter, as it has always been one of those recordings in Prince oblivion for me. However, to answer RD's question, as a 'new schooler' (in terms of accepting the fact that I am a Prince "fam"...joining the org/ NPGMC, really trying to collect material and deepen my understanding of why I have ALWAYS liked Prince and not let him sink into purple oblivion like the masses) in my opinion it is possible to understand the music. It helps tremendously to have lived through the time. But Dansa and other "babies" seem to get it

But as someone else said, as the generations go on and we end up with parents who didn't "live" Prince, like we did the potential for "non-static zeitgeist" (whatever the hell that really means, I can only guess) increases dramatically. The music will be appreciated on all levels, but hearing the 12" of Kiss on a CD or ATWIAD or any of the B-Sides will not hold the same "wow" factor as when we rushed home from school for the "world premiere" of Prince's latest song/video, etc.

beautifulone7 said:

It means a sprit of th e times that at that one moment is captured..but cab be let loose at another point in time becasue of the music...the feeling of that particular peace of music that was created at that time can be let loose at a later date...but can it really?

Wow. I bet the word "zeitgiest" is happy to be used.

To answer your question, rd, I suspect those who weren't there to experience the energy of a certain era of music just cannot quite wrap around it lie a person who lived it. They can enjoy it -- deeply, soulfully -- but there's just something special about having been there.

Lammastide said:

I'm inlcined ot agree with you...but what about me? I doiscovered some groups late and delved into them with a fervor probab;y better than those who lived itat tis current time..and maybe liek I said, Moonbeam enjoys appreicates understands 1999 as good as someone who lived it during its current time...albeit personal experience played a part etc...

I don't think you necessarily have to have 'been there' at the time the music was created to enjoy it. But I definitely think it helps in some cases.

I can recall a number of comments from folks on this board who didn't enjoy '1999' having rediscovered much later because the synth sound of the album was somewhat dated. Radio doesn't help that either, because it doesn't train your ears to accept things that are different. And there's no question that if all you hear is Britney Spears, B2K and 50 Cent all day then something like Jefferson Airplane's 'White Rabbit' may not be 'music' to your ears.

violator said:

I think some of are misunderstanding me..Im not inquiring if one can enjoy it if not there when it was put out..Im saying can they enjoy it "as much with the same understanding" as those who were there

rdhull said:

rdhull said:

I see. I agree for the most part...but I think you had to live through Cindy Crawford, her beauty mark and her face/body being plastered all over the world to really get Prince saying "super fine heifer".

I can only imagine the response if "Cindy C" had gotten airplay at that time.
[This message was edited Sat Dec 6 22:09:36 PST 2003 by beautifulone7]

rdhull said:

And I think some might be confusing the issue of pining after the romanticism of their own totally unique experience (which they wouldn’t want one note of touched) with the issue of joy and understanding of art.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to find out that 50 years from now some 14- or 15-year-old kid is being moved every bit as much or more than I was by “SOTT”.

For someone to claim that their joy and understanding during the now will always be superior to that of future generations is somewhat arrogant, as if they own the true inspiration captured in the work of art just because they lived through it.

“Oh you might like it, kid, but you’ll never truly ‘get it’” (pat on the head). My response is, “That might be true, but if I don’t end up ‘getting it’, it just might be because it wasn’t all that great to begin with.”

Don’t tell me I have to posses some special key that was only cut in the 60s to fully understand and enjoy a great work of art that was created during that era. The only key I need is the one that opens my mind and keeps me interested in challenging myself. Everything else is an answer to a trivia question.

This whole issue reminds me of the old joke about how every generation thinks that they invented oral sex. Sure, they know that they didn’t literally invent it, but certainly no generation before was this hip or hot to it, or doing it as much or as well. And certainly their parents would never do something that freaky. Yeah, right.

BinaryJustin said:

For me too. And anyone who is brought up in today's musical climate will never hear it like that. Context is very important in appreciation of art.

i'm so old school prince

that i remember buying his

very first album, the one before

his self titled lp

no one i knew was into him, yet

i understood the music, instantly

i bought every 45, every 12 inch,

and every album prince released

i defended him against naysayers

many new school prince fans seem

2 dabble in his music, but are quick

2 turn their backs on him if he

does or creates anything they don't understand

i do applaud the new schoolers who

try 2 dig deeper than most and

develope their own perspective

on prince

I'm only 21 and have been into Prince since '99. I believe I "understand" the music just as much as anyone who was 16 in 1984. My fav album is probably 1999! I get thrills from listening to all those oldies! My only regret is that I never got to se him live back then! But I find many Prince fans over 30 don't enjoy his new albums becuase they still want that "old" sound - that inspiration that got them hooked on Prince in the first place. I'll probably be the same when I'm 35 as well saying "why doesn't he make albums like The Rainbow Children anymore?". I think TRC is easily up there with his other great works.
BTW - great topic!
[This message was edited Sun Dec 7 8:51:44 PST 2003 by toejam]

As I've only been seriously listening to Prince for a few months I think I'm in a good position to comment on this. In pure musical terms I think Dirty Mind hasn't aged very well, or at least the production is a bit stuffy. However the quality of the songs is still apparent and I think that I can guess at the impact of the seedy lyrics and greatly enjoy the album. When I first got Purple Rain it was a bit of a culture shock because it is very 80s, but I listened to it again after a couple of weeks and became accustomed to it.
Part of the reason that I can enjoy albums like these (and also SOTT in particular) is that it envokes images and a feel of the 80s (although I wasn't exactly very culturally aware back then), and represents a kind of imagined nostalgia (forgive me if this sounds like a pretty wierd post, I haven't been smoking anything.) I think therefore that there is a "static zeitgeist" but the music is so strong (and doesn't make you think "euughh!!! '80s") that it almost takes you back to when it was state of the art.

On the subject of the Black Album, I'm still waiting for a particular member of the org to send it to me, but I've heard clips and although it does sound a bit dated I can't wait to hear it.

(BTW Rd, why don't you have a picture of Emu as your display pic?)