Maybe Natasha was right when she said something along the lines of, 'Sit back and relax, as only the master can make you come.' LOL!

Anji said:

See, that's not nice. But besides, if I were a Fam wouldn't I have to at least be buying his music? I quit the money burning after Rave. I think the Fams are the ones who continue to spend their money on poison just cuz they need to keep the collection going. I don't care who the artist, if the album sucks, I'm out.

EvilWhiteMale said:

If you got out at 'Rave' EWM, why you STILL here? not that i got anything against you, just curious.

.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 15 12:11:32 PDT 2003 by Marrk]

Marrk said:

I can't speak for Evil, but I can say that I have not purchased any Prince related articles since TRC and I'm here for the 20 years or so of music that came before that album. I love a lot of that music and it's still being discussed to this day. As far as the fam thing, the word implies 'family' and being around other Prince fans has taught me that it ain't no family feel to us.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Purchasing habits are irrelevant as far as I am concerned. You do still try & get hold of the music. Regardless, I think it's obvious you still care, and that means you're still part of the FAM.

I adore Prince, but I do not like to be labeled a fam.

As far as I am concerned I am a member of the adoration society.

stymie said:

I know you like hanging around certain Prince fans that seem cool to you, and even the ones you may not vibe with as much, I would guess you're still probably open to listening to them in hope. You definitely still care, Stymie, as far as I can tell.

You seem to vent your frustrations most at fans who do not accept other people's opinions. I would suggest settling yourself in the knowledge that if you can be the more open minded person, then you are doing something right. You're still a FAM until you leave!

Anji said:

Well look, it's obvious you're trying to be funny about this, so whatever. But just to clear things up, I don't think I'm a Fam if I download a few tracks and then delete the files cuz the songs suck. Do you?

sag10 said:

Oh shaddup, Saggy LOL! You'll always be part of the FAM if you care about Prince. Besides, it's what you grew up shaking your thang too.

Anji said:

Anji, don't make me choke the shit out of you for that label, but I do understand it. I guess we can say we all are fams in the sense of being part of the Prince community, whether we are fans of Prince past, present or future.

I would definitely consider myself to be a Prince "fan", since I have 95% of all his albums, been to shows, etc. Even though I dislike most of his 90's stuff and absolutely hate all that he's doing now, I will always be a fan of the good shit.

But "fam" is just a stupid scam word that Prince made up for his fans so they can feel like he actually gives a shit about them. And anyone who calls themselves a "fam" is obviously a little off balance on the tightrope of life.

EvilWhiteMale said:

I think it's funny that you think I am trying to be funny. I'm not. I'm just saying it as I see it. I know you don't think you are a FAM but as far as I am concerned, you very much are because you still care enough to download, listen, criticise, hope and even be here. That comes from love. You're a FAM and you don't even realise it.

No one wants to call themselves a FAM, least of all you, because the meaning has got so twisted over the years by disgruntled fans, like yourself, wanting to mislabel others as having some kind of crippling addiction. That's bullshit and that doesn't take away from the fact that you're still part of the FAM. Until you leave Prince, you are a FAM. In other words, you are a FAM.

This thread saddens me. Here is a for everyone's broken hearts.
Whether it be your parents, wives, husbands, friends, Prince, , or unavailable heterosexual men in your case SciFiNerd.

Not a fam dammit More a distant admirer of his old stuff.

He better worry about Andre3000 and TTD taking away all of his fans.

Thanks, number 23.

And as for this thing about embracing people for what they can be rather than for what you would like them to be - which was the subject in Anji's deleted thread which got me started on the issue - for me, my "no, not really" reply kinda applies to Prince too.
The way I see it, for awhile the music he was making and the music I liked was compatible, but it kinda grew out of synch and now we no longer seem compatible.
So do I embrace Prince for what he can be rather than for what I would like him to be?
No. Because if he doesn't make the music I like any more, then the world is full of other fish who do - like Audioslave, Macy Gray, Marilyn Manson and even Aerosmith.
There is plenty of good music out there - so much so that it's practically unaffordable to get everything you like. So I'm not wasting my money on Prince when there is more important stuff to spend it on.
With The Rainbow Children, I realized that his music and my tastes would never get back in synch and I haven't bought any of his stuff since then - except some bootlegs with music from back when we were in synch.
Sometimes "lovers" DO grow apart - Prince and I did and I have moved on and found other loves.
I am here on the Org because I cherish the good times we DID have. Those were important years. His music meant a lot to me. It was a huge part of my personal evolution and growth. It saddens me that he developed in a direction that took him away from me, but I am happy for all the good stuff he left behind in my care.
Just like I cherish memories of good times I had with men prior to things turning sour between us.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 15 16:33:43 PDT 2003 by scififilmnerd]

Anji, I'm shocked! You are normally so level minded!

You say you are not being funny, so are you trying to dictate? You ask "what does being a FAM mean to you? yet you are putting a label on many who respond.

Looking at your last few responses, you are taking the "damned if they do, damned if they don't attitude."

You are naming people as fams who are rightly so, over the top in their support of Prince.

Yet you are naming people who aren't even buying the material, but hope for it to improve? Isn't that a fan who just wants to see more of what they like? You can hope that from a McDonalds menu, it doesn't make you Ronalds brother.

So, who isn't a FAM in your eyes?

To me, you are a FAM, and want to tarnish everyone with the same brush, regardless of their own opinion or response.

Tut tut.

Anji said:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But what you need to understand is that the term "Fam" was created by Prince in order to make the fans feel special. He likes to create shit like that cuz he thinks he's so intelligent and innovative. He may be a musical genious, but he's an idiot otherwise.

And if I am a "Fam" I must be one hell of a black sheep. And what's more, I don't think even Prince himself would want me in his crooked little FAMily. The only people he wants as fams are those who spend tons of money on his shit and never breath a word of negativity about him.

So I'm sorry Anji, but your theory is false.

Anji said:

I am sure you've got it the same way I do - with girls. If you have close girlfriends, it's because your sexual attraction to them is... "limited" at best, right?
But if you feel that they are not just hot, but also potentially your ideal love (woman/wife), would you settle for friendship? Why should you? You've got natural needs. Why should their wish for friendship take precedence over yours for fulfillment/satisfaction when what they have to offer is less (cuz love is the greatest gift of all)?
It really all comes down to "who is going to have his/her way?"
I just became stubborn about it. I understand that a heterosexual man is not capable of loving me the way I would like him to - just like I couldn't love a girl. But what he is asking me to do - by insisting we should be friends - is for me to compromise on my needs (my "artistic integrity") without compromising the slightest on his own.
That is not equal. For any kind of relationship to work, there has to be equality.



Well, like I said, I do have two het male friends.
Plus I've got a gay male couple and their son as my closest friends/family away from by blood-relatives, so I DO enjoy male company. But thanks.



Me too, Anji. And thank you.

scififilmnerd said:

Interesting. You no longer spend your money on Prince because you don't enjoy it anymore, but it's okay to spend time on a Prince website as a mark of respect for what he meant to you.

Yeah, I agree, things can fall apart when values underpinning relationships no longer hold true, and I guess we all are unique in how we view our relationship with Prince's music. It sounds like your relationship was, and still is, intrinsically linked to Prince's values, and that he has taken you to your limit of what you are prepared to accept.

It seems that you have also left the hurt behind, or at least, have chosen not to invest the majority of your time and energy here trying to dismiss Prince's recent output, or the people who enjoy it,

Sounds healthy to me.

SquirrelMeat said:

LOL! I think I said I was not 'trying' to be funny but that I was finding things amusing. There is no dictation here on my part, and I'm open to what anyone's saying. I might disagree with it, if I don't think it's true, and that might mean that I think you're still part of the FAM. Who am I to say anyway? No one of importance to anyone else here, other than myself.

But I hear what you are saying. That said, I still think it is often hypocritical how the term FAM has been turned into a negative thing, and it's no surprise that no one wants that misconstrued label placed upon them. You'll often see people here vehemently disagree with the idea of a FAM without even thinking about what a family means in the most abstract sense. This kind of misconstrued labelling, and the insecurity that comes from it, happens every day. I'm just doing my thing to highlight this absurdity and attempt to readdress the balance.

My original post was designed to highlight the greatest positive attributes of what I believe a family can be, and therefore, the idea of a FAM being a negative thing, is not entirely true for everyone. It all depends on what you think, and based on how I defined it in my very first post, you are right to think I consider myself part of the FAM, as I define it. I don't necessarily, or automatically, assume being a FAM means there's something to be ashamed of. It goes deeper than that because many of us have been deeply moved by Prince's music, and some of us continue to be.

EvilWhiteMale said:

And you are entitled to your opinion. I think that Prince is on an entirely different, completely more abstract plane to you. Your everyday reality is probably very far removed from his, which is why he'd probably dismiss what you have to say in the same way you appear to dismiss what he has to say i.e. with not much thought. I expect you're right to think that you would not be welcome over in his house if you conduct yourself in the same disrespectful manner you usually seem to display here. You might think the truth hurts for him to hear it, but have you ever thought that your truth may not be his?

Anyway, it's all good. You do what you do and in a manner which you understand. The only point I'm trying to make is that just because you think you understand something, doesn't necessarily mean you, or any of us, do. And in the worse case scenario of you misunderstanding things, based on your narrow view of your world, you can be deeply offensive to people, aswell as come across as a shallow, self-centred person. I don't suppose you are a FAM of who you think Satan is?

Say it loud, I'm FAM and I'm proud!

Anji said:

Well one thing that can be said about me is that I don't go insulting people for what they believe, as long as they present themselves properly. You on the other hand like to put people down and try to act superior. So here's a news flash, people don't like that type of arrogant behavior. You come across as someone who thinks he's such an intellectual and so above everyone else. Aren't you sad to be that way sometimes?

Anji said:

Well, not having heard it, I don't feel qualified to comment on the qualities of Prince's recent output.

And people like what they like, just like I like what I like. I may not always understand WHY they like what they like if it is something I dislike or have no interest in, but I strive to be respectful of other people's taste regardless. (It isn't always easy, though - especially if the same respect is not afforded my tastes. )

(And that - amusingly so - also reflects my dealings with straight people. )

reciprocated.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 15 19:16:11 PDT 2003 by scififilmnerd]

EvilWhiteMale said:

Read your post to me here and apply it to yourself. There are two things that appear to have bothered you on this thread:

1) Firstly, when I mentioned I thought it was disgraceful how Muffy was treated at the worst of times. That comment was not directed at anyone but it seemed to strike a nerve with you. You commented in response, "Muffy however had started talking shit in response to my threads so I lost all respect for her...No one in their right mind would write the things she does. She's sickly obsessed with Prince to the point of being a stalker...I just hope she gets the right medication to fix the problem."

I clearly remember seeing you and her on one thread where you called her out on her delusional, obsessive behaviour, afterwhich you pressed her on sending you movies of her performing sexual acts? If you were accusing her of being delusional, I assume you believed so. Why then would you entertain the idea of sex with her? Were you just fucking with her? Was it fun for you?

2) Secondly, you seemed to respond in a 'FAM-like' manner when I mentioned how I thought you were a FAM. You've already said on this thread that you've purchased 95% of Prince's albums, that you've been to his concerts, that you still download his latest 'shit'. I said you still care, and that your interest must come from love, so I concluded that you were still part of the FAM. You said that my theory was wrong because you don't pay for your material. I said it doesn't matter what your purchasing habits are. The fact that you're still here doing what you are doing, means you're still very much part of the FAM, and that that's cool. You've commented in response, "It is an insult to be called a Fam cuz Fams are idiots, but since I'm not a sick Prince freak, I'll be just fine...It's a scam to keep fans loyal...I think the Fams are the ones who continue to spend their money on poison just cuz they need to keep the collection going...And anyone who calls themselves a "fam" is obviously a little off balance on the tightrope of life. He may be a musical genious, but he's an idiot otherwise...And what's more, I don't think even Prince himself would want me in his crooked little FAMily."

Can you actually hear what you are saying, and the manner in which you are saying it? It seems that you're investing your energy in things that you don't enjoy anymore, and that your convinced no one else in their right mind could possibly find enjoyment in what you don't. Why? Because you're really a true FAM in denial? Because Prince has crossed your values in worshipping Satan? I don't know, I don't actually give a fuck, but I never said thare was anything wrong with being a FAM; you're the one convinced there is. Here's a summary of FAM-like behaviour provided by Supernova which you appear to fit into:

FAM: the word many self-descibed naysayers have come to represent without consciously realizing it by way of continued, support: (i.e., adding traffic to Prince sites religiously/continuing to buy expensive concert tickets to see Prince live, although the rain check on complaining about the prices will be cashed soon//planning on telling the online Prince community how he's lost "it" and will never get "it" back/self-righteously coming back to the online Prince community to call others "fams" who don't neurotically dwell on sweating the small shit, or put themselves into position to be used, abused, taken for granted, shunned, spit upon, receiving Prince's symbolic flipping the bird gesture/thinking because you are a fan-fam you have the right to dictate what Prince should believe on a spiritual or religious basis because of the content of his music/giving the impression that you've been used, abused, taken for granted, shunned, spit upon, received Prince's symbolic flipping the bird gesture, yet coming back...so the cycle can continue, etc.).

CONCLUSION: EvilWhiteMale is a FAM.

Anji said:

OK, I think that sums this thread up nicely, Anji. Neither one of you understands what a FAM is, not you and not evilwhitemale.

It means to me that we are brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, uncles and aunties etc. Treat each other as such, get away from that civil war the magic man talked about in "Sometimes it snows in April". We've all got 2 sides, let's make them both friends, huh?

Anji wrote:

EvilWhiteMale:


Read your post to me here and apply it to yourself. There are two things that appear to have bothered you on this thread:

I'm not "bothered" by anything, but I will debate the issues at hand.

1) Firstly, when I mentioned I thought it was disgraceful how Muffy was treated at the worst of times. That comment was not directed at anyone but it seemed to strike a nerve with you. You commented in response, "Muffy however had started talking shit in response to my threads so I lost all respect for her...No one in their right mind would write the things she does. She's sickly obsessed with Prince to the point of being a stalker...I just hope she gets the right medication to fix the problem."

I clearly remember seeing you and her on one thread where you called her out on her delusional, obsessive behaviour, afterwhich you pressed her on sending you movies of her performing sexual acts? If you were accusing her of being delusional, I assume you believed so. Why then would you entertain the idea of sex with her?

I never wrote anything about wanting to have sex with her. I wrote that I would direct the porno she was starring in.

Were you just fucking with her?

Of course I was.

Was it fun for you?

Why yes, yes it was.

2) Secondly, you seemed to respond in a 'FAM-like' manner when I mentioned how I thought you were a FAM. You've already said on this thread that you've purchased 95% of Prince's albums, that you've been to his concerts, that you still download his latest 'shit'.

So? Most people here have what I have and thensome.

I said you still care, and that your interest must come from love, so I concluded that you were still part of the FAM. You said that my theory was wrong because you don't pay for your material.

Not only that. I don't even keep the music that I download. I send it to the trash because it sucks. If I were a true "fam" I'd be buying all of his music and I'd have my membership to the NPGMC. And of course, I have none of these. I gave up on buying his music and seeing his shows years ago. So how could I be a fam?

I said it doesn't matter what your purchasing habits are. The fact that you're still here doing what you are doing, means you're still very much part of the FAM, and that that's cool.

Stop it already. "Fam" is a stupid term Prince created. Stop being his sheep.

You've commented in response, "It is an insult to be called a Fam cuz Fams are idiots, but since I'm not a sick Prince freak, I'll be just fine...It's a scam to keep fans loyal...I think the Fams are the ones who continue to spend their money on poison just cuz they need to keep the collection going...And anyone who calls themselves a "fam" is obviously a little off balance on the tightrope of life. He may be a musical genious, but he's an idiot otherwise...And what's more, I don't think even Prince himself would want me in his crooked little FAMily."

Can you actually hear what you are saying, and the manner in which you are saying it?

I understand everything I write. The question is, do you?

It seems that you're investing your energy in things that you don't enjoy anymore, and that your convinced no one else in their right mind could possibly find enjoyment in what you don't.

Why are you inventing bullshit? People are free to enjoy whatever they want and I can accept that. To each their own. I just think it's stupid to constantly produce threads about albums like TRC cuz I'm sure the intention is to show the haters that "Yeah, people like this album so we're gonna be heard." If everyone loved the album there would probably be less threads about it.

Why? Because you're really a true FAM in denial?

Again, you're using a Prince-ism that has no meaning to me. It's a joke.

Because Prince has crossed your values in worshipping Satan?

Before you start throwing your ignorance around, explain to me what you think I feel about Satanism. Also explain to me what Satanism is to your understanding.

I don't know, I don't actually give a fuck, but I never said thare was anything wrong with being a FAM; you're the one convinced there is. Here's a summary of FAM-like behaviour provided by Supernova which you appear to fit into:

FAM: the word many self-descibed naysayers have come to represent without consciously realizing it by way of continued, support: (i.e., adding traffic to Prince sites religiously

I never visit HIS sites.

/continuing to buy expensive concert tickets to see Prince live, although the rain check on complaining about the prices will be cashed soon

I passed on his last show cuz I had no interest.

//planning on telling the online Prince community how he's lost "it" and will never get "it" back

I never said he'd "never" get it back.

/self-righteously coming back to the online Prince community to call others "fams" who don't neurotically dwell on sweating the small shit, or put themselves into position to be used, abused, taken for granted, shunned, spit upon, receiving Prince's symbolic flipping the bird gesture

I never called anyone a "fam."

/thinking because you are a fan-fam you have the right to dictate what Prince should believe on a spiritual or religious basis because of the content of his music

Prince can follow whatever faith he wants.

/giving the impression that you've been used, abused, taken for granted, shunned, spit upon, received Prince's symbolic flipping the bird gesture, yet coming back...so the cycle can continue, etc.).

As long as I'm not putting money into Prince's pockets, I don't feel I'm being hypocritical in any way.

CONCLUSION: EvilWhiteMale is a FAM.

CONCLUSION: Anji doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.