peedub said:

I'm not concerned with Prince's mainstream appeal. All I'm interested in is the estate realizing that mainstream appeal is not a prerequisite for successful releases of archival material, as obscure cult artist frank zappa's estate has proven. I don't know what Michael Jackson or the Beatles or circuses or the 80s or cosplay has to do with anything I'm talking about. You're talking pop stars. I'm talking musicians.

But The Fab 4 are probably the most critically acclaimed & written about recording act ever, way more than Prince or Frank Zappa. Beatle songs have been covered by lots of acts from many genres. Prince is a pop star, it's no accident that he tried to reach the mainstream (aka white audience) instead of mainly being marketed with the R&B radio audience like most Black performers were, until hip hop became mainstream music. The Beatles still get a lot of media coverage. Physical media does not sell much, not even new releases by current artists, other than maybe Taylor Swift. Why would the estate waste money on remastering unreleased Prince music in expensive box sets, that they are not likely to make a profit on. Some of these deluxe reissue sets released now are vinyl only, which costs more than CDs (to produce and buy). They can release it on streaming for little, which is how the average person listens to music now anyway. They don't put CD players in cars anymore and most new PCs/laptops don't have a disc drive

MickyDolenz said:

Y'all are arguing over numbers and popularity, but even if Prince has millions of new recent listeners from this finale: what is the estate going to do to make the most of it? How are they gonna retain new fans and hold their interest? And what are they gonna give to us longtime fans to keep us onboard?

Based on their track record over the last three years, the answer is: nothing.

bozojones said:

Y'all are arguing over numbers and popularity, but even if Prince has millions of new recent listeners from this finale: what is the estate going to do to make the most of it? How are they gonna retain new fans and hold their interest? And what are they gonna give to us longtime fans to keep us onboard?

Based on their track record over the last three years, the answer is: nothing.

Yes, the estate is nothing but frustrating. Irregardless of the estate, I am glad that a new generaltion is getting exposed to Prince and that the legacy of his music lives on.

peedub said:

Yet somehow, the zappa estate manages.

You don't seem to understand that Prince was a commercial artist, Frank Zappa wasn't. So they don't have the same kind of audience. Frank Zappa isn't expected to sell a lot, they probably don't print many copies. Prince got Top 40 airplay & R&B airplay. If Zappa got any sort of airplay, it was on college radio which operate from listener pledges, he wasn't on commercial radio. When Prince did the Superbowl, he did Purple Rain, not Annie Christian. The fact that Prince was hired to do the Superbowl Halftime show means that he was a well known pop star, they don't get avant-garde artists or cult ones to do that.

StrangeButTrue said:

MickyDolenz said:

peedub said:

peedub said:

ETA: ah, I see...my initial comparison. My bad. But, yeah. I'll stand by that. You see Prince your way, I'll always see him as a hard-headed punk rock studio rat that liked to look pretty in public. He happened to achieve superstardom during his career. That affords other people the opportunity to profit from his leavings, which interferes with my opportunity as a fan to hear more of his music. S'all I'm sayin'.

If Prince was still alive, you wouldn't be getting anything, except any newly recorded music. The only place he allowed his music online was Tidal, and that was previously released stuff. Everywhere else he had it taken down. So what's the difference? When Prince did officianlly put out unreleased tracks with Crystal Ball, many copies sat in the local record stores for years until they marked it down for cheap to get rid of it (same for Emancipation). Where were these fans at to buy it then? There was no streaming then either and I don't think Napster had hit yet.

bozojones said:

Y'all are arguing over numbers and popularity, but even if Prince has millions of new recent listeners from this finale: what is the estate going to do to make the most of it? How are they gonna retain new fans and hold their interest? And what are they gonna give to us longtime fans to keep us onboard?

Based on their track record over the last three years, the answer is: nothing.

The estate doesn't have to do anything for new fans actually. Prince has tons of music and many album, it will take them years to go through his entire discography. You do realize that people's lives do not revolve around the music they listen to. Some of you sound like if the estate doesn't release anything new, you'll die. Life goes on, relax, Prince left us with plenty of music, re- listen to his existing music and maybe go outside.

MickyDolenz said:

MickyDolenz said:

peedub said:

Yet somehow, the zappa estate manages.

You don't seem to understand that Prince was a commercial artist, Frank Zappa wasn't. So they don't have the same kind of audience. Frank Zappa isn't expected to sell a lot, they probably don't print many copies. Prince got Top 40 airplay & R&B airplay. If Zappa got any sort of airplay, it was on college radio which operate from listener pledges, he wasn't on commercial radio. When Prince did the Superbowl, he did Purple Rain, not Annie Christian. The fact that Prince was hired to do the Superbowl Halftime show means that he was a well known pop star, they don't get avant-garde artists or cult ones to do that.

Prince was pop AND he was underground. It' one of the many geniuses of Prince.

Proof in how many albums he has that fans of his pop hits were not even aware existed.

So, Prince releases should include both those aimed at everyone, like a Purple Rain SDE, and those aimed at hardcore fans, like Hit N Run being put out as first time on vinyl.

paisleyparkgirl said:

bozojones said:

Y'all are arguing over numbers and popularity, but even if Prince has millions of new recent listeners from this finale: what is the estate going to do to make the most of it? How are they gonna retain new fans and hold their interest? And what are they gonna give to us longtime fans to keep us onboard?

Based on their track record over the last three years, the answer is: nothing.

The estate doesn't have to do anything for new fans actually. Prince has tons of music and many album, it will take them years to go through his entire discography. You do realize that people's lives do not revolve around the music they listen to. Some of you sound like if the estate doesn't release anything new, you'll die. Life goes on, relax, Prince left us with plenty of music, re- listen to his existing music and maybe go outside.

If the estate doesn't plan on releasing anything, then they should just tell us that the vault's closed so we can move on with zero expectations. When they keep teasing everyone and claiming shit like "the vault is free", then it's fair game for fans to bitch when they don't deliver.

"Purple Rain" continues to climb, reaching a new high of #29 on the global Spotify chart and #13 in the US. It tallied 2,287,966 streams yesterday. "When Doves Cry" also had a nice increase, up to 656,161 streams from 590,991 the day before.

The Talk of the Charts account on X which makes reliable chart predictions has indicated that "Purple Rain" is aiming for re-entry inside the top 25 of the Hot 100. That would make it the second highest charting 80s song from Stranger Things.

MickyDolenz said:

djThunderfunk said:

Prince was pop AND he was underground. It' one of the many geniuses of Prince.

Proof in how many albums he has that fans of his pop hits were not even aware existed.

Because pop radio fans generally don't care about albums unless they're a big fan of the artist. There's a reason that 45 singles existed, people wanted the song on the radio and not the entire album. They would buy the single and it was cheaper. Sometimes the 45 had a remix or different version from the album. I don't mean an edit from a longer version either. No One Is To Blame by Howard Jones is an example of this. The single version has Phil Collins on it and the original version from the Dream Into Action album didn't.

Prince wasn't underground, he just aged out of Top 40 radio, just like everyone else does. When was the last time the Rolling Stones or Paul McCartney had a hit? They still release new albums. So do the Doobie Brothers. They're not going to get played next to Megan Thee Stallion. Top 40 has always been primarily for teens & young adults. Most don't want to listen to their parents or grandparents music.

peedub said:

MickyDolenz said:

If Prince was still alive, you wouldn't be getting anything, except any newly recorded music.

I'd choose that option every time.

Agreed. I don't know if that was Micky's intention, but he's kind of saying that new music wouldn't really count? That's... weird.

Moonbeam said:

"Purple Rain" continues to climb, reaching a new high of #29 on the global Spotify chart and #13 in the US. It tallied 2,287,966 streams yesterday. "When Doves Cry" also had a nice increase, up to 656,161 streams from 590,991 the day before.

The Talk of the Charts account on X which makes reliable chart predictions has indicated that "Purple Rain" is aiming for re-entry inside the top 25 of the Hot 100. That would make it the second highest charting 80s song from Stranger Things.

Awesome news !

paisleyparkgirl said:

MickyDolenz said:

djThunderfunk said:

Prince was pop AND he was underground. It' one of the many geniuses of Prince.

Proof in how many albums he has that fans of his pop hits were not even aware existed.

Because pop radio fans generally don't care about albums unless they're a big fan of the artist. There's a reason that 45 singles existed, people wanted the song on the radio and not the entire album. They would buy the single and it was cheaper. Sometimes the 45 had a remix or different version from the album. I don't mean an edit from a longer version either. No One Is To Blame by Howard Jones is an example of this. The single version has Phil Collins on it and the original version from the Dream Into Action album didn't.

Prince wasn't underground, he just aged out of Top 40 radio, just like everyone else does. When was the last time the Rolling Stones or Paul McCartney had a hit? They still release new albums. So do the Doobie Brothers. They're not going to get played next to Megan Thee Stallion. Top 40 has always been primarily for teens & young adults. Most don't want to listen to their parents or grandparents music.

The point is, the audience (aka customer base) for Prince is two different (at least) groups. BOTH need to be catered to for maximum income, exposure and retention. Anything else is foolish and will lead to failure.

djThunderfunk said:

The point is, the audience (aka customer base) for Prince is two different (at least) groups. BOTH need to be catered to for maximum income, exposure and retention. Anything else is foolish and will lead to failure.

Releasing CDs, cassettes, or records is not the way to do that. One of the most popular recent songs is Not Like Us by Kendrick Lamar. There is no physical media release of that, you can either stream it or download it. Most people including many older adults stream music/movies and artists make little money from streaming. KISS (the band) make more from merchandising than from record sales. Why do you think all these singers/actors have Funko Pops? Because Funko Pops are popular with the public. The major record labels now sign artists to 360 deals where the label gets a cut of touring and/or merchandising because sales of records & CDs are not that big like in the past. Busta Rhymes once said that all that a label does is make you famous with no money. Artists make money from touring or other things like Rihanna has a makeup line that she became a billionaire from.

.

Maximum exposure would be licensing songs for commercials, TV shows, movies, video games, etc. Putting Prince's songs in Grand Theft Auto 6 would be more exposure than releasing some old unreleased tracks in a CD/record box set that most people won't be aware of. It's like old forgotten songs were resurrected in Marvel movies like Guardians Of The Galaxy where they found a new audience. Michael Jackson's Heaven Can Wait became popular on TikTok in recent years and that was never a big hit.

MickyDolenz said:

peedub said:

Somebody should tell the zappa estate. They're totally doing it wrong. All those happy fans are idiots. Jfc, you are obtuse.

The post O replied too said maximum eposure & money. Frank Zappa has never had any maximun exposure. I bet KISS make more from selling merchandising in than Frank Zappa has made his entire life. Also here you go, this doesn't look like a CD set to me.

MickyDolenz said:

Here's the Forbes list of highest earning deceased stars of 2025. Looks like the Prince estate is doing pretty good with whatever it is they're doing now

.

1. Michael Jackson - 105 Million
2. Dr. Seuss - 85 Million
3. Richard Wright (Pink Floyd) - 81 Million
4. Syd Barrett (Pink Floyd) - 81 Million
5. The Notorious B.I.G. - 80 Million
6. Miles Davis - 21 Million
7. Elvis Presley - 17 Million
8. Jimmy Buffett - 14 Million
9. Bob Marley - 13 Million
10. John Lennon - 12 Million
11. Prince - 11 Million
12. Arnold Palmer - 11 Million
13. Kobe Bryant - 10 Million

MickyDolenz said:

peedub said:

Here's a list of the things you are talking about that are relevant to my further interest in this conversation...

I never said anything to you in the first place. You replied to a comment I made to someone else. Clearly I'm talking about what is more profitable for an estate to do and you started talking about Frank Zappa who was never really popular. It does not make any difference what the Zappa estate does. Apparently Michael Jackson's estate is making more money than Zappa's and Mike has no new CDs of unreleased material. Mike has only had 2 CDs of unreleased stuff since passing and the last one came out in 2014. The 1st one had 3 fake songs on it by an impersonator and the 2nd was remixed tracks and a Justin Timbelrake duet overdub.

MickyDolenz said:

Here's the Forbes list of highest earning deceased stars of 2025. Looks like the Prince estate is doing pretty good with whatever it is they're doing now

.

1. Michael Jackson - 105 Million
2. Dr. Seuss - 85 Million
3. Richard Wright (Pink Floyd) - 81 Million
4. Syd Barrett (Pink Floyd) - 81 Million
5. The Notorious B.I.G. - 80 Million
6. Miles Davis - 21 Million
7. Elvis Presley - 17 Million
8. Jimmy Buffett - 14 Million
9. Bob Marley - 13 Million
10. John Lennon - 12 Million
11. Prince - 11 Million
12. Arnold Palmer - 11 Million
13. Kobe Bryant - 10 Million

FrankieCoco1 said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Awesome news !

Well Purple Rain re-entered this week’s UK singles chart at number 12. https://www.bbc.co.uk/new...3vne2832wo

Very cool! We'll have to see how long this lasts, but it's great to see Prince in the singles charts again!

"Purple Rain" had its best day yet on Spotify with 2,290,597 streams. It landed at #30 globally and #13 in the U.S. Across the week ending January 8th, "Purple Rain" was the 36th most streamed song globally on Spotify, #15 in the U.S., and #17 in the U.K. We'll likely have to wait until Tuesday (U.S. time) to see where it lands on the Billboard Hot 100, but it seems poised to have the second highest chart placement for an 80s song featured on Stranger Things.

MickyDolenz said:

djThunderfunk said:

The point is, the audience (aka customer base) for Prince is two different (at least) groups. BOTH need to be catered to for maximum income, exposure and retention. Anything else is foolish and will lead to failure.

Releasing CDs, cassettes, or records is not the way to do that. One of the most popular recent songs is Not Like Us by Kendrick Lamar. There is no physical media release of that, you can either stream it or download it. Most people including many older adults stream music/movies and artists make little money from streaming. KISS (the band) make more from merchandising than from record sales. Why do you think all these singers/actors have Funko Pops? Because Funko Pops are popular with the public. The major record labels now sign artists to 360 deals where the label gets a cut of touring and/or merchandising because sales of records & CDs are not that big like in the past. Busta Rhymes once said that all that a label does is make you famous with no money. Artists make money from touring or other things like Rihanna has a makeup line that she became a billionaire from.

.

Maximum exposure would be licensing songs for commercials, TV shows, movies, video games, etc. Putting Prince's songs in Grand Theft Auto 6 would be more exposure than releasing some old unreleased tracks in a CD/record box set that most people won't be aware of. It's like old forgotten songs were resurrected in Marvel movies like Guardians Of The Galaxy where they found a new audience. Michael Jackson's Heaven Can Wait became popular on TikTok in recent years and that was never a big hit.

And yet, as has been repeated, when done right there is an audience for physical media, and artists with much smaller audiences and much less previously unreleased material manage to take advantage of that market and yes even profit from it.

Physical media collecting is niche, but that niche grows every day as more and more people, many of them too young to remember the old ways, grow disenfranchised with the streaming model. This is especially true for customers who already have a history of buying media they can hold and own. Like Prince fans that have been doing so for decades.

You go look for Black Album on your favorite streaming service. I'll pull up my digital rip I made from my CD and my drive fails I'll pull the CD or LP off the shelf and make another digital copy. I mean, are we really still having the physical media vs. digital argument? That's so 10 years ago. It doesn't matter which is bigger it only matters that both bring in revenue. The way the market is these days it's foolish to leave either on the table.