pdiddy2011 said:
BonnieC said:
But we clearly can't debate, because again, you measure artistic value in terms of money, and I don't. You could defend the show by expressing what is great about it, yet your arguments are the cash it brings and the spotlight it grabs.
"Hard earned", that's a fantaisy of yours: anyone who truly works hard for their money doesn't have any left for this kind of superfluous. We're all spoiled western dudes. So I don't know why you're playing this kind of Charles Dickens or Nebraska's Springsteen card ("these poor people savings!") to give some cred or sanctity to the MJ show.
And again, you think reviews and awards are not bought, you think they're genuine journalism.
You clearly don't know squat about the industry. Or maybe you fantasize about one that existed eons ago.
We can't have a debate without a single base of discussion, let's leave it at that.
Enjoy your broadway shows by all means.
This is a forum, and it's meant for expression.
You don't like mine? Differents strokes.
Take it easy, there's nothing in it ad hominem,
despite the 8 Mile provocations.
[Edited 10/15/25 20:33pm]
It's presumptuous and INCORRECT to assume that I measure artistic value in terms of money.
My point was that people ARE spending their hard-earned money and my impression from people that have seen [and reviewed] the show is that the show reinforced that MJ was an incredible entertainer (making my point that a musical can reflect positively towards a person's legacy). ANYONE that paid to see the musical had a myriad of options to use that hard-earned money elsewhere. Just because you don't like musicals doesn't change the fact that they can be as much or more expensive than A-list concerts. People aren't throwing away money (that apparently grows on trees) just because it's for a musical.
All of your other ballyhoo about what I think journalism is and whether or not reviews and awards are bought is superfluous and nonsensical.
To refresh your memory, this kerfuffle started because I called you out after you felt it appropriate to trash and demean the actors and show BEFORE seeing the show (or even giving it a chance to get it's first review). Forum or not, judging the actors/performance having not seen them (or having any factual experience with the performance) is low. What you deem as good entertainment isn't the end-all-be-all. Just because you don't like musicals doesn't mean they are performed by hacks and yoddlers.
And please don't take my pushback as trying to convince you to give musicals a chance. I love that you are leaving seats open for people who appreciate the medium.
You mean this?
BonnieC said:
How this has anything to do with Prince or Prince's music is beyond me.
But hey, enjoy your usual American Idol larynx show offs.
Well pretty foreseeing if U ask me.
You need a ton of charisma and vocal personality,
let alone abilities (5 octaves and some) to jump in SKipper's heels,
and if the cast is standard from the start, that pretty much seals it.
You just can't copy-paste Berklee graduates on Prince, it never worked.
I have nothing against musicals, hey, I sang in an Opera, which is pretty much a musical, right?
I love anything pop, MJ included even if the ghost of his errr... maladjustments gloom over him, it didn't in my youth when Michael was still a cool cat. But I'll admit I had trouble since, even if I give it a chance from time to time, and it only makes me very sad to hear such energy and faith stained by his fall. Seems to be the fate of angels.
Prince is truly a UFO, you just can't think musical by the numbers and expect it to be great, Purple Rain is way more complex than anything related to MJ. There is a valid social commentary underneath it, it questions Reagan’s American Dream, life in suburbia, father-son relationships: The Kid makes it at the price of overcoming the desperation and violence engrained in his father, but we know Francis L. is just another victim of having a creative, different mind. There's a lot to unpack on masculinity and identity alone, very contemporary subjects.
Man, give this to anyone serious and you get five-star reviews and some happy public.
We know the material is good. But Disney and its formatting-of-everything®
was nowhere near SKipper's radar, it never was.
And, judging by the reviews, they tried the Disney approach.
1984's America went nuts because Purple Rain was "What if Springsteen Was Born Black?", it's parents exploding, and all drenched in oozing sexual liberation/confrontation, a genuine rebellious stand against Reagan and what was to emerge from it (Tipper Gore for starters, proof Demos and Reps are the one and same breed) up to these times, way stronger than "Footloose", because there's the racial question at the heart of it, this ole American Ball and Chain.
Make it a musical for adults, Damn U:
Purple Rain the song is a very adult one.
One of the first that truly helps kids grow emotionally,
one where they feel the singer does not take them for idiots.
Nor the Colemans and their ending quartet credits from beyond,
up there with the best of what Clare would bring later on.
It explains in part the Beatlemania screams of the tour.
Thousand of kids with parents divorced or spiralling into chaos,
thankful to have finally found their flag-bearer.
One who'd like you to take a bath with him.
You can't just play the song at the end of the show and expect the emotion.
Purple Rain is eight minutes of pure catharsis,
if all that has come before in the show hasn't grabbed you by the crotch,
you won't know what the fuss is about and the solo will just be pyrotechnics.
It's like those reaction videos where they all think
Billy is Prince's father, just because there's a shot of him
while Prince dedicates the song to Francis L.
But when Purple Rain comes right after the jelly-smashing scene,
the flying music sheets, his father presumed dead, his love all gone,
and a dusty dawn bringing a simple chord progression, cutting to
pale-as-fuck travelling on the verge of the precipice, the last night, the last chance
not to lose his spot on the club's billboard...
Plus it's highly moral, in a way Tipper Gore never saw:
The Kid meets success (and inner peace, with "I Would Die 4 U")
the minute he lets others share the limelight ("This is a song the girls in the band wrote").
The countless times Prince got the crowd to dance with him on the stage come to mind...
To cut it: give an artist's work to an artist, thank you.
We have performers up to the neck, acrobats en veux-tu en voilà, enough.
Anybody can sing.
There's more to genius My Sister,
et cætera.
[Edited 10/31/25 12:17pm]
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