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Thread started 03/02/25 3:30pm

Nightcrawler

Let’s pretend… AI music projects in the future

I've been thinking about a topic for a while now and I'd be interested in your opinion. First of all, I realize that there are legal pitfalls here, as well as ethical ones. Let's leave these aside for a moment.

So: Artificial intelligence is making incredible progress. We will get to the point where artificial intelligence can create completely new Prince albums, even live concerts and video material that is so authentic that nobody will notice it. If you feed this AI with everything that's in the vault, which is quite a lot, you could end up with some pretty good music. Not today, not tomorrow. But in a few years' time. I realize that a lot of people here will say: no way, he would never have wanted that, let's first listen to the unreleased projects from the vault that actually come from him...

Personally, though, I think that would be pretty exciting. Because I still really miss looking forward to new Prince projects.
Now it's your turn. What do you think about it?
See the man with the blue guitar, maybe one day he`ll be a star...
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Reply #1 posted 03/02/25 4:40pm

bozojones

Nope, not interested. I want to listen to real music created by real human beings with real emotions, not some approximation created by a trained algorithm.

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Reply #2 posted 03/02/25 5:01pm

WhiteSandsHide
away11

Absolutely not. There is enough real unreleased Prince material in the vault to last our lifetime. Why would anyone choose to watch an AI Prince concert when there are dozens of real concerts in the vault waiting to be released..
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Reply #3 posted 03/02/25 6:04pm

purplethunder3
121

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"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #4 posted 03/02/25 6:37pm

lurker316

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When there is so much real music left in the Vault to hear, why do we need fake music?

One day in the distance furture when everthing in the vault has been released and we're left with literally no possiblity of hearing anything new, I'll still probably be opposed to listening to definitionally inauthentic music. But at that point, at least I'd understand the question and the point of view of people more tolerant of AI. But as long as we still have real music to discover, I honestly can't see any perspective from which your question makes sense.


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Reply #5 posted 03/02/25 8:24pm

bozojones

lurker316 said:



When there is so much real music left in the Vault to hear, why do we need fake music?

One day in the distance furture when everthing in the vault has been released and we're left with literally no possiblity of hearing anything new, I'll still probably be opposed to listening to definitionally inauthentic music. But at that point, at least I'd understand the question and the point of view of people more tolerant of AI. But as long as we still have real music to discover, I honestly can't see any perspective from which your question makes sense.



And even if we did somehow run out of Prince music to discover, I'd rather go back and relisten to it all, or listen to any one of countless albums made by real human artists than turn to technology for some meaningless piece of artificial entertainment. Are we really that unimaginitive that we have to rely on computers to churn out "content" for our amusement?

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Reply #6 posted 03/02/25 9:17pm

shockadelica86

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bozojones said:

Nope, not interested. I want to listen to real music created by real human beings with real emotions, not some approximation created by a trained algorithm.

Preach! headbang

Shockadelica, she must be a witch
She got your mind, body, and soul hitched
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Reply #7 posted 03/02/25 9:21pm

shockadelica86

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"It's cool to get on the computer, but don't let the computer get on you." It's cool to use a computer but don't let the computer use you!"

- Prince

https://www.youtube.com/w...y7i9ru7HB8

Shockadelica, she must be a witch
She got your mind, body, and soul hitched
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Reply #8 posted 03/03/25 4:15am

TrivialPursuit

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Sorry, it's the Hodgkin's talking.
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Reply #9 posted 03/03/25 10:04am

olb99

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This will happen. This will happen for Prince music. But this will also happen for everything else.

This will be the biggest crisis of meaning humanity will ever face. We're not ready.

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Reply #10 posted 03/03/25 11:17am

psyche2

Only possible aspect that I'm slightly interested in this regard is the possibility of cleaning up audience recordings. Can't see that happening anytime soon, and even if feasible I'm sure it will have it's limitations, but go figure, the trove of shows making the rounds in awful sound quality suddenly listenable.

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Reply #11 posted 03/03/25 12:05pm

mclihah2

psyche2 said:

Only possible aspect that I'm slightly interested in this regard is the possibility of cleaning up audience recordings. Can't see that happening anytime soon, and even if feasible I'm sure it will have it's limitations, but go figure, the trove of shows making the rounds in awful sound quality suddenly listenable.

I have a bunch of audience recordings I've cleaned up using AI - They are out there

You're right, they do have limitations - If the quality of the underlying music is rubbish, then that will remain... however this has opened up a lot of shows for me that I would never have listened to before

Also, I am very contrary to the rest of this group - AI will soon be smarter than us - in some ways it already is... in some ways it will never be....

No human could digest all the millions of tracks that exist on spotify... AI can!!!

If they let it loose, I'm sure it could create some amazing music......In any case, Prince is no longer with us, so what's there to lose? It won't affect him..... the only people that would lose out are the money grabbing estate...

Also, if you don't want to hear AI Prince... you don't need to.. ever!! - Just dont't go there... (can't we all just get along?) flower flower flower flower


I'm not trying to be trolly here - I swear... I'm just laying out my personal opinion which is very contrary to most... and I do respect your opinions. I just feel.... differently

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Reply #12 posted 03/03/25 1:11pm

Ymaginatif

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*delete*

[Edited 3/3/25 13:14pm]

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Reply #13 posted 03/03/25 1:13pm

Ymaginatif

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I think we'll grow tired very quickly of AI Prince clones. Once the floodgates open, I imagine the novelty will wear off very quickly.

And then, at last, people might start looking for something new again. And it will be about time!

(Same in films, I imagine: how many Star Wars remakes will they be able to produce using AI princess Leias and Han Solos before the thrill fades, and people will stop being interested. 2? 3?)

Once the rehashing stops, AI will probably become a tool that will allow new forms of creativeness, way beyond repeating the past.

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Reply #14 posted 03/03/25 3:57pm

bozojones

mclihah2 said:

psyche2 said:

Only possible aspect that I'm slightly interested in this regard is the possibility of cleaning up audience recordings. Can't see that happening anytime soon, and even if feasible I'm sure it will have it's limitations, but go figure, the trove of shows making the rounds in awful sound quality suddenly listenable.

I have a bunch of audience recordings I've cleaned up using AI - They are out there

You're right, they do have limitations - If the quality of the underlying music is rubbish, then that will remain... however this has opened up a lot of shows for me that I would never have listened to before

Also, I am very contrary to the rest of this group - AI will soon be smarter than us - in some ways it already is... in some ways it will never be....

No human could digest all the millions of tracks that exist on spotify... AI can!!!

If they let it loose, I'm sure it could create some amazing music......In any case, Prince is no longer with us, so what's there to lose? It won't affect him..... the only people that would lose out are the money grabbing estate...

Also, if you don't want to hear AI Prince... you don't need to.. ever!! - Just dont't go there... (can't we all just get along?) flower flower flower flower


I'm not trying to be trolly here - I swear... I'm just laying out my personal opinion which is very contrary to most... and I do respect your opinions. I just feel.... differently


Just because a technological advancement can exist doesn't necessary mean that it should. Music is an inherently human art form - even if it has evolved over the decades with the rise of digital recording and digital effects, it's still created by real human beings at its core. As far as I'm concern, something created by machine learning is *not* human and it is *not* art. It's a cheap replacement that undercuts living, breathing artists who are already struggling to survive off of their work. The more that people like you embrace AI generated music, the more that real musicians will be pushed out of the industry and relegated to the sidelines.

There are potential benefits to AI technology in more practical applications, but I don't like this rush to replace real human artists with artificiality. It's kind of terrifying how eager some people are to give up the humanity of art and music.

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Reply #15 posted 03/03/25 4:20pm

Vannormal

I am interested.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #16 posted 03/03/25 7:17pm

fredmagnus

Do we need fake music when there are thousands of unheard Prince tracks laying in the Vault and tons of Prince music that we already have and can listen to whenever we want ?
.

I doubt it.
.
Instead, let's Keep on asking the Estate to release the actual music released by the man himself in his lifetime.
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Reply #17 posted 03/03/25 7:45pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

bozojones said:

mclihah2 said:

I have a bunch of audience recordings I've cleaned up using AI - They are out there

You're right, they do have limitations - If the quality of the underlying music is rubbish, then that will remain... however this has opened up a lot of shows for me that I would never have listened to before

Also, I am very contrary to the rest of this group - AI will soon be smarter than us - in some ways it already is... in some ways it will never be....

No human could digest all the millions of tracks that exist on spotify... AI can!!!

If they let it loose, I'm sure it could create some amazing music......In any case, Prince is no longer with us, so what's there to lose? It won't affect him..... the only people that would lose out are the money grabbing estate...

Also, if you don't want to hear AI Prince... you don't need to.. ever!! - Just dont't go there... (can't we all just get along?) flower flower flower flower


I'm not trying to be trolly here - I swear... I'm just laying out my personal opinion which is very contrary to most... and I do respect your opinions. I just feel.... differently


Just because a technological advancement can exist doesn't necessary mean that it should. Music is an inherently human art form - even if it has evolved over the decades with the rise of digital recording and digital effects, it's still created by real human beings at its core. As far as I'm concern, something created by machine learning is *not* human and it is *not* art. It's a cheap replacement that undercuts living, breathing artists who are already struggling to survive off of their work. The more that people like you embrace AI generated music, the more that real musicians will be pushed out of the industry and relegated to the sidelines.

There are potential benefits to AI technology in more practical applications, but I don't like this rush to replace real human artists with artificiality. It's kind of terrifying how eager some people are to give up the humanity of art and music.

Without that there is no art and music.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #18 posted 03/04/25 1:34am

SoulAlive

Not interested.It’s gotta be the real thing or nothing at all.
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Reply #19 posted 03/04/25 4:45am

masaba1

I'm not particularly interested in fakes or AI music but there's already a ton of it and when training models multipurpose models becomes more mainstream and higher quality I'm sure many people will start to use it to make their own fantasy music. Add the bass to when doves cry please, make it funky. Don't change anything else. Let's extend ballad of Dorothy Parker and do A B C. Take x prince but make him sing from the chest rather than falsetto. Remove the rape lyrics from extra loveable add a raunchy guitar solo or something.

Nonsense but real world is your Oyster type shit. Video would be dumb as hell though, I think it will be a long long time before they can recreate people we know and make it seem truly lifelike. As an AI novelty sure but not something where you can't tell the difference.
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Reply #20 posted 03/04/25 6:03am

FragileUnderto
w

avatar

Just me, my personal feelings.

I'm not interested in listening to AI generated Prince vocals or styled music.
I'm too old to care lol
Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
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Reply #21 posted 03/04/25 6:45am

mclihah2

bozojones said:

.....Music is an inherently human art form - even if it has evolved over the decades with the rise of digital recording and digital effects, it's still created by real human beings at its core. As far as I'm concern, something created by machine learning is *not* human and it is *not* art. It's a cheap replacement that undercuts living, breathing artists who are already struggling to survive off of their work. The more that people like you embrace AI generated music, the more that real musicians will be pushed out of the industry and relegated to the sidelines.

I understand the sentiment, and respect your opinion.

When you say 'Music is an inherently human art form'... I would slightly disagree, and say... where we are heading, is..... 'Music was, historically, a human-only art form'

The reality is that this technology juggernaut is chugging away at an incredible speed - We have governments throwing away AI safeguard regulations and trillion dollar tech companies asking their staff to work overtime to chase this thing - Not to mention the East vs West dynamic on this.

... and at the core of this, is a technology that simulates the way human neurons works - In many ways, AI works like the human brain (rewarded pathways etc)... we don't know *how* they are connecting the dots.... they just do..... Just like the human brain..

Imagine, if you could get a human, who is able to consume *every* track on Spotify, every piece of literature, every news article, and every online debate..... It's not possible

and yet, with AI, we are creating such a mind... forget creating music as *good* as Prince.... The way this thing is going, it's going to have to dumb itself down to create music as *simple* as Prince.


For me, I'll just enjoy the ride, and embrace our new overlords.... Until they decide to 'kill all humans'

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Reply #22 posted 03/04/25 8:16am

SoulAlive

bozojones said:


It's kind of terrifying how eager some people are to give up the humanity of art and music.

Indeed.

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Reply #23 posted 03/04/25 9:41am

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

I find the whole AI thing inherently vapid.

And all of its proponents always have this drone-like fevency that A.I. is going to be like sliced bread-meets-the creation of fire, but all of it exudes this cheap, plastic quality.

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Reply #24 posted 03/04/25 6:38pm

luv2tha99s

avatar

I mean I'll check it out when whatever it will be comes out but I will know the difference. Real musicians know that Prince's "feel" is legendary. Ain't no way you're going to recreate a human musicians organic "feel" with AI. Maybe in a thousand years or more. Experiencing the feel of a musician is like experiencing their soul. Most of the sheep won't know the difference but I know I will.
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Reply #25 posted 03/05/25 7:48am

olb99

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luv2tha99s said:

Maybe in a thousand years or more.


Nope. Way, way sooner.

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Reply #26 posted 03/05/25 2:05pm

Vannormal

lurker316 said:



When there is so much real music left in the Vault to hear,

why do we need fake music?

One day in the distance furture when everthing in the vault has been released and we're left with literally no possiblity of hearing anything new, I'll still probably be opposed to listening to definitionally inauthentic music. But at that point, at least I'd understand the question and the point of view of people more tolerant of AI. But as long as we still have real music to discover, I honestly can't see any perspective from which your question makes sense.

Exactly. We need MORE real music, but it's not coming the way we lik, right?

Take it or leave it. We can't change that.

Then again, this is besides the point.

I am interested in all kinds of creativity, being man made or computer generated.

I don't need all of Prince's music to be out there before i'm going to listen to some AI generated tests. Because that's what they are. Nothing else.

Probably, the kind of computer generated music based on behalf of Prince's 'know and (un)released' legacy, it probably would sound like a copy of a copy. "Possibly" I say, I don't know for sure... yet.

I'll keep my opinion for later, after seeying or hearing it.

I'm not too old to care. I like new challenges.

If Prince was still alive, I'm sure he would be curious, possibly use it, and surpisingly got away with it.

He always surrounded himself with new 'kids'. To stay relevant.

He was always in for something new.

He even gave production away on one of his last albums. Which was unheard of!

(but didn't turn out all that well imho. anyways...)

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #27 posted 03/11/25 4:33pm

databank

avatar

This video by this great French YouTuber, which I just watched last night, addresses it: https://www.youtube.com/w...JE2qkP0Gk4

(He also made a whole series of very insightful videos about AIs. I believe you can watch most, if not all of them with English subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/w...qyfivFqJd)

.

In a nutshell, he takes 2 examples: first, he explains that if you google painter Hieronymus Bosch, you already find more AI generated images than pictures of his real works. Then, since he's running a philosophy channel, he takes the example of YT videos addressing (or claiming to address) Stoicism: the VAST majority of what you will find is (really poor quality) AI generated videos.

.

He concludes by addressing the Dead Internet Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory), originally a conspiracy theory, now becoming a reality: we're getting closer each month to reaching the point when the majority of online content will be generated by bots and AIs, as opposed to humans.

.

One huge issue with that, besides the absurd amount of resources (servers) required to host all this AI content, is that people will find it harder and harder to distinguish real content from AI content. Many people will google Bosch and simply assume what they see is the painter's work. This is also true for news items of course, which can have disatrous political and societal results. This will also soon be true for most scientific content and works of arts.

.

What's ironic is that for YEARS I've been warning our specific community about why fanmade Prince mixes, now replaced by AI Prince mixes (and soon by entirely fake AI Prince songs) are wrong because casual listeners (sometimes even hardcore fans, it's already happened many times on this very board) will not be able to differentiate the real thing from fake content, and that it would hurt Prince's legacy on the long run, and most of the community kept laughing at my warnings, saying it doesn't matter (or even embracing said fake contents). Well, admitedly the issue is now much bigger than just Prince, but there we are, and it's just the begining...

.

[Edited 3/11/25 16:46pm]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #28 posted 03/11/25 4:42pm

databank

avatar

olb99 said:

luv2tha99s said:

Maybe in a thousand years or more.


Nope. Way, way sooner.

I agree. It's a matter of years, a decade at best. The mix of naivety and arrogance displayed here is all the more concerning because it shows how much many people don't realize what's coming, thus won't be ready (if there's any way to be ready anyway). We already have so many cases of people, even AI experts, claiming that AIs won't be able to do this or that, then proven wrong in a matter of years, sometimes months. But no, people cherish the ancient illusion that there's something unique to humans capacities. There isn't.

.

The only way we'll have to know whether future leaks are genuine is though research, and in this regard the Estate would be better off putting an end to their policy of opacity, make a public inventory of what's in the vault (even if they don't release the material) and allow people like Duane to research and write about it. But they, too, I guess, believe the world will always be as it is...

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #29 posted 03/11/25 4:45pm

Kares

avatar

databank said:

This video by this great French YouTubers, which I just watched last night, addresses it: https://www.youtube.com/w...JE2qkP0Gk4

(He also made a whole series of very insightful videos about AIs. I believe you can watch most, if not all of them with English subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/w...qyfivFqJd)

.

In a nutshell, he takes 2 examples: first, he explains that if you google painter Hieronymus Bosch, you already find more AI generated images than pictures of his real works. Then, since he's running a philosophy channel, he takes the example of YT videos addressing (or claiming to address) Stoicism: the VAST majority of what you will find is (really poor quality) AI generated videos.

.

He concludes by addressing the Dead Internet Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory), originally a conspiracy theory, now becoming a reality: we're getting closer each month to reaching the point when the majority of online content will be generated by bots and AIs, as opposed to humans.

.

One huge issue with that, besides the absurd amount of resources (servers) required to host all this AI content, is that people will find it harder and harder to distinguish real content from AI content. Many people will google Bosch and simply assume what they see is the painter's work. This is also true for news items of course, which can have disatrous political and societal results. This will also soon be true for most scientific content and works of arts.

.

What's ironic is that for YEARS I've been warning our specific community about why fanmade Prince mixes, now replaced by AI Prince mixes (and soon by entirely fake AI Prince songs) are wrong because casual listeners will not be able to differentiate the real thing from fake content, and that it would hurt Prince's legacy on the long run, and most of the community kept laughing at my warnings, saying it doesn't matter (or even embracing said fake contents. Well, admitedly the issue is now much bigger than just Prince, but there we are, and it's just the begining...

.
The other day I was browsing Etsy and most of my searches for Basquiat resulted in fake (AI generated) graphics in his style, so yeah, it is happening already.
.
But I have a feeling (or hope) that our machines will soon have automatic filters/gateways etc that will flag AI-stuff for us so we won't end up being flooded with fake art and fake news. Not that our governments worry about fake Prince songs, but I'm sure they are worried about fake news sparking international conflicts, quite possibly wars. So developing such filters must be top priority, at least I would assume so.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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