psyche2 said:

databank said:

That.

This album is my holy grail.

.

I share your enthusiasm, but let's beware of what we wish for

Perhaps the title track is the stand out one and the rest are leftovers from Kamasutra

.

Now, seriously, I'm also curious and it seems that could be a great unreleased album given what was going on musically at that time in Prince's world.

I love the title track and Breathe, if they're any indication of the album's overall tone, and I'm among the happy fews who LOVE the sound of the so-called "plastic" years, so I'm pretty confident about digging the album.

But TBH it's not even that important. I've wanted this record for 23 years and I know I won't trip on it as crazily as I would have as if it'd been released as promised in 2002 (similarly, The Flesh sessions were my other holy grail before they leaked, and I probably would have listened to them way much more than I did had they come out 15 years ealier). I'm just curious to hear it.

I'm also concerned about the Estate finding and releasing a final configuration if there's one. According to HM Buff, Man O War was once considered for the record but if his memories are correct, that means there was at least one configration that predates Rave that had to be at least slightly different from what Prince wanted to release in 2002. Did he commit to finishing this final 2002 configuration? And if so, will the Estate find it and leave it alone, or will they feel compeled to mess with it, leading to another "fake album" situation similar to Welcome 2 America?

guitarman81 said:

Honeslty I would be happy with a Deluxe version of "The Undertaker" without all the crappy video edits and perhaps a bonus set of Paisly Park 3 Piece Jams from around that time.

My understanding is that there are 3 versions of it in existence:

The original video version (credited to the symbol and with a few minor differences in editing than the released version, and the original take of Dolphin).

The officially released video version.

The audio version that was supposed to be released with Guitar Magazine (which is the one you want I guess, since it lacks the edits and movie sound fx).

A perfect deluxe package would offer all three versions (+, I guess, a cheaper, standard version with the audio version only). Let's hope the Estate had enough common sense to see this the day they tackle it.

And for a proper SDE, there may indeed also exist enough material recorded with Sonny and Michael alone (if only from reheasals) to justify at least one CD of additional unreleased material.

I think The Undertaker could generate some hype if properly rereleased, as it is by far Prince's "purest" rock album (and, at least in our generation, there's a decent part of casual Prince listeners who are rockists and don't care much for the R&B side of his work). It was already a missed opportunity to quickly, discreetly drop it in video only back in 1995, targeting only hardcore fans. With a a proper, wider audio release, it would probably have generated some enthusiasm from the music press at the time.

nxx said:

I would take a different approach

I personally don't care much for remastered versions of classic albums we already know very well.

I don't really care for 7" edits and all that fluff either.

I also don't really want anyone trying to complete unfinished Prince projects, yuck.

Lastly, I don't see the point of releasing things like Camille, we have all that stuff.

What I am interested in though, is:

1. well-recorded live performances and rehearsals
2. demos and unreleased studio work which is in a decent enough state for release without significant tampering

I think this is what the majority of Prince's surviving & ageing fanbase is most interested in, so I don't believe tethering vault content to album SDEs is the right strategy anymore. Perhaps that worked for major hit albums like Purple Rain, but we've all bought enough copies of Purple Rain at this point right?

Instead what I'd propose is creating a three different streams of releases:

1. Classic album remasters - with some extras (b-sides, alt versions etc)
2. The Vault Collection - collating / archiving Prince's unreleased Vault studio work chronologically
3. Prince Live Series - cherry-picked live performances + rehearsals, videos etc

Splitting into three streams means there's greater flexibility for the Estate, avoiding the boom-or-bust pressure of these huge expensive SDEs that don't always sell, and the they can tune the release cadence of each stream individually, and maybe even go digital-only or subscription only in some cases if that's more appropriate. This gives the Estate maximum optionality for monetizing the different parts of Prince's back catalogue while it still has value.

I'd also start to do more "out of band" releases for RSD each year, it can be small things but it's a nice way to sustain fan interest with minimal effort.

PS Londell / Spicer, feel free to get in touch haha

[Edited 2/7/25 23:45pm]

I guess this could work, except for releasing the vault chonologically. There's simply way too much material, we'd all be dead before they reach 1995, + we've seen with the SDEs that the chonological approach doesn't make for pleasant listening experiences as albums, the tracklist is way too all over the place. Well curated, cohesive compilations from various eras would probably be the wisest approach when it comes to respecting the material.

And clearly, with the ridiculous amount of material at hand, our only hope to get more than a few crumbs every year would be a subscribtion service where they could drop anything that's not considered fit for a wider physical release — unfininshed demos, redundant versions of songs, redundant alt. configs of albums, moderately interesting or poorly recorded shows and rehearsals (not to forget the Hard Life short film )

But TBH I don't think they care much (if at all) about what we think.

databank said:

guitarman81 said:

Honeslty I would be happy with a Deluxe version of "The Undertaker" without all the crappy video edits and perhaps a bonus set of Paisly Park 3 Piece Jams from around that time.

My understanding is that there are 3 versions of it in existence:

The original video version (credited to the symbol and with a few minor differences in editing than the released version, and the original take of Dolphin).

The officially released video version.

The audio version that was supposed to be released with Guitar Magazine (which is the one you want I guess, since it lacks the edits and movie sound fx).

A perfect deluxe package would offer all three versions (+, I guess, a cheaper, standard version with the audio version only). Let's hope the Estate had enough common sense to see this the day they tackle it.

And for a proper SDE, there may indeed also exist enough material recorded with Sonny and Michael alone (if only from reheasals) to justify at least one CD of additional unreleased material.

I think The Undertaker could generate some hype if properly rereleased, as it is by far Prince's "purest" rock album (and, at least in our generation, there's a decent part of casual Prince listeners who are rockists and don't care much for the R&B side of his work). It was already a missed opportunity to quickly, discreetly drop it in video only back in 1995, targeting only hardcore fans. With a a proper, wider audio release, it would probably have generated some enthusiasm from the music press at the time.

I once asked Michael B if there was anything else performed at that session, either before, after or somewhere in between, and he told categorically no. I'd have expected some left overs that they used to perform with that format around the time, Jailhouse Rock or even Calhoun Square. All in all the complete session clocks in at 30-something minutes, it could have made sense.

.

This is one of my favorite "albums", by the way. But it's already out there even with a video to go with (even if it's a trippy mess). There's not much to dig for I guess.

databank said:

psyche2 said:

I share your enthusiasm, but let's beware of what we wish for

Perhaps the title track is the stand out one and the rest are leftovers from Kamasutra

.

Now, seriously, I'm also curious and it seems that could be a great unreleased album given what was going on musically at that time in Prince's world.

I love the title track and Breathe, if they're any indication of the album's overall tone, and I'm among the happy fews who LOVE the sound of the so-called "plastic" years, so I'm pretty confident about digging the album.

But TBH it's not even that important. I've wanted this record for 23 years and I know I won't trip on it as crazily as I would have as if it'd been released as promised in 2002 (similarly, The Flesh sessions were my other holy grail before they leaked, and I probably would have listened to them way much more than I did had they come out 15 years ealier). I'm just curious to hear it.

I'm also concerned about the Estate finding and releasing a final configuration if there's one. According to HM Buff, Man O War was once considered for the record but if his memories are correct, that means there was at least one configration that predates Rave that had to be at least slightly different from what Prince wanted to release in 2002. Did he commit to finishing this final 2002 configuration? And if so, will the Estate find it and leave it alone, or will they feel compeled to mess with it, leading to another "fake album" situation similar to Welcome 2 America?

Yeah, Breathe was nice too. It was a very exciting time to be a fan around that time (2002). Those two hints about the project are definetely intriguing.

.

But I wouldn't consider these two anything "plastic", or related to that sound from from the late 90's. I always felt them more organic, or more in tune with the whole ONA period (Rainbow Children, ONA tour, album...).

.

Never heard about that bit about Man O War being into this project. News to me. But thinking about it, could make sense and perhaps the whole thing was conceived and created at the end of his marriage to Mayte. I always thought (or guess I heard somewhere) the title Madrid 2 Chicago was a reference to the flight he used to take after spending some days in Marbella where Mayte was living.

[Edited 2/10/25 7:12am]

mill8 said:

This is the nexxt disappointing release: https://recordstoreday.co...ease/18512

...and :

SIDE SIX = Etching

exactly what we need, and extra vinyl side with no music. Great!!!

Vannormal said:

mill8 said:

This is the nexxt disappointing release: https://recordstoreday.co...ease/18512

...and :

SIDE SIX = Etching

exactly what we need, and extra vinyl side with no music. Great!!!

Maybe next they'll release a blank CD for us to burn with 7 remixes of 7 on mp3@128 that they'll sell online for 77 dollars

.

[Edited 2/10/25 15:17pm]

NICKthebrick said:

NICKthebrick said:

Which of these would you like to see released next? 2016 Piano and A Microphone Black is The New Black (album containing material he recorded in his last year or so) Camille Madrid 2 Chicago New World (unreleased 1995 album) The Undertaker Rave 89. Release containing material intended for the aborted 1989 album Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 20deluxe The Jamie Starr album Roadhouse Garden I'm picking Black is The New Black. [Edited 2/5/25 17:00pm] [Edited 2/5/25 17:03pm]

Of your list?

2016 Piano and A Microphone
--> YES definitely time to release it!!

Black is The New Black
--> I am pretty sure there are only 3,4 tracks completed. Ruff enuff was nice, both versions.

Camille
--> this is a typical RSD release, because all of the tracks are already released. I can't understand why this was not a RSD release in 2020 along with the SOTT Deluxe. would love to have it

Madrid 2 Chicago
-->I am pretty sure all of the songs were probably released on Chocolate Invasion + Slaughterhouse?

would love to have these two (CI and Slaughterhouse) on vinyl though

New World (unreleased 1995 album)

--> please no. I don't care about Emancipation era

The Undertaker
-->no fan of this but why not.

Rave 89.
--> not very interested in Graffitti Bridge/Batman Era. Would buy a Batman SDE though with Rave 89 stuff and a nice NUDE tour live album.

20deluxe
--> YES please!! some friends made me a dubplate bootleg vinyl love it!

The Jamie Starr album
--> pretty sure there is no Jamie Starr album?

Roadhouse Garden

--> even though most of the songs were released on SOTT, maybe there are differrent versions of this songs... SPLASH is a masterpiece. so: YES, would love it.

I love the SDE concept and would love to see Parade, Lovesexy, Around the wolrd in a day, Controversy SDEs!

GiggityGoo said:

This is what I want, in order of how badly I want it:

.

1) Around The World In A Day SDE

2) Lovesexy SDE

3) Batman SDE

4) expanded Purple Rain SDE with EVERYTHING

5) Dirty Mind SDE

6) Parade SDE

7) Love Symbol SDE

.

...and from there, the proteges and side projects.

ok, but put Parade on number 1)

databank said:

Vannormal said:

...and :

SIDE SIX = Etching

exactly what we need, and extra vinyl side with no music. Great!!!

Maybe next they'll release a blank CD for us to burn with 7 remixes of 7 on mp3@128 that they'll sell online for 77 dollars

.

[Edited 2/10/25 15:17pm]

and for next year's RSD release, it'll be the unremastered D&P album, with original hologram.

Vannormal said:

databank said:

Maybe next they'll release a blank CD for us to burn with 7 remixes of 7 on mp3@128 that they'll sell online for 77 dollars

.

[Edited 2/10/25 15:17pm]

and for next year's RSD release, it'll be the unremastered D&P album, with original hologram.

Which wouldn't be so bad though, since they managed to fuck-up the remaster (Money Don't matter 2Nite's intro).

A reprint of the original blue cover without the silver glossy thing wouldn't be bad either.

bozojones said:

I don't think there's an actual Jamie Starr album. It seems far more likely that Prince wrote "Jamie Starr" on a tape box of protege recordings, and Charles took it at face value because he's an unqualified moron who doesn't know that Jamie Starr was Prince's producer pseudonym.

lot of assumptions in there - and a tad harsh. bordering on well... you don't know what you're talking about, so you made something up.

Facts – remember those? Facts still matter. Facts, like books and albums, still matter.

So, bear in mind Charles was a long time friend of Prince from way back and was/is a record producer in his own right

I spoke to Charles after they played Friction (a cracking track - another one you can't understand why Prince just sat on it) at Celebration last year - he didn't elaborate on what else was there under what they were saying they had found as the 'Jamie Starr album' but what he did say is that the anaolgue recordings and mixed songs don't stand up in terms of hiss, crackle and pop on modern digital playback devices - so each mix needs cleaning up.

Now, to answer the original question:

Dirty Mind SDE

Parade SDE

Camille SDE

Jamie Starr album before any of those - and that's just based on how good Friction was and past Jamie Starr produced releases!

mattosgood said:

what he did say is that the anaolgue recordings and mixed songs don't stand up in terms of hiss, crackle and pop on modern digital playback devices

.

What a load of bs.

Kares said:

mattosgood said:

what he did say is that the anaolgue recordings and mixed songs don't stand up in terms of hiss, crackle and pop on modern digital playback devices

.

What a load of bs.

how is that 'bs'?

Just look at a football match from the 80s, or pretty much anything else from back then, playbed back on 4K TVs - it's as if the whole decade was blurry (now I appreciate it may well be for some...) it goes the same for stuff you could hide in the mix back then but can't on our modern devices.

And, regardless, why would he make it up?

Rough said:

NICKthebrick said:

Which of these would you like to see released next? 2016 Piano and A Microphone Black is The New Black (album containing material he recorded in his last year or so) Camille Madrid 2 Chicago New World (unreleased 1995 album) The Undertaker Rave 89. Release containing material intended for the aborted 1989 album Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 20deluxe The Jamie Starr album Roadhouse Garden I'm picking Black is The New Black. [Edited 2/5/25 17:00pm] [Edited 2/5/25 17:03pm]

Of your list?

(...)

Roadhouse Garden

--> even though most of the songs were released on SOTT, maybe there are differrent versions of this songs... SPLASH is a masterpiece. so: YES, would love it.

I love the SDE concept and would love to see Parade, Lovesexy, Around the wolrd in a day, Controversy SDEs!

Wendy and Lisa stated several times in interviews that Prince literally 'erased' most things they worked on, what would eventually be released on SOTT.

He (tried) to removed most of their audible parts etc. Partly not knowing how to cope with them leaving/kicking them out/letting them go. Their relationships were so intertwined, important, that he wanted to erase the pain.

So for sure there are different versions of these songs. That other version of Strange relationship we already know.

databank said:

nxx said:

I would take a different approach

I personally don't care much for remastered versions of classic albums we already know very well.

I don't really care for 7" edits and all that fluff either.

I also don't really want anyone trying to complete unfinished Prince projects, yuck.

Lastly, I don't see the point of releasing things like Camille, we have all that stuff.

What I am interested in though, is:

1. well-recorded live performances and rehearsals
2. demos and unreleased studio work which is in a decent enough state for release without significant tampering

I think this is what the majority of Prince's surviving & ageing fanbase is most interested in, so I don't believe tethering vault content to album SDEs is the right strategy anymore. Perhaps that worked for major hit albums like Purple Rain, but we've all bought enough copies of Purple Rain at this point right?

Instead what I'd propose is creating a three different streams of releases:

1. Classic album remasters - with some extras (b-sides, alt versions etc)
2. The Vault Collection - collating / archiving Prince's unreleased Vault studio work chronologically
3. Prince Live Series - cherry-picked live performances + rehearsals, videos etc

Splitting into three streams means there's greater flexibility for the Estate, avoiding the boom-or-bust pressure of these huge expensive SDEs that don't always sell, and the they can tune the release cadence of each stream individually, and maybe even go digital-only or subscription only in some cases if that's more appropriate. This gives the Estate maximum optionality for monetizing the different parts of Prince's back catalogue while it still has value.

I'd also start to do more "out of band" releases for RSD each year, it can be small things but it's a nice way to sustain fan interest with minimal effort.

PS Londell / Spicer, feel free to get in touch haha

[Edited 2/7/25 23:45pm]

I guess this could work, except for releasing the vault chonologically. There's simply way too much material, we'd all be dead before they reach 1995, + we've seen with the SDEs that the chonological approach doesn't make for pleasant listening experiences as albums, the tracklist is way too all over the place. Well curated, cohesive compilations from various eras would probably be the wisest approach when it comes to respecting the material.

And clearly, with the ridiculous amount of material at hand, our only hope to get more than a few crumbs every year would be a subscribtion service where they could drop anything that's not considered fit for a wider physical release — unfininshed demos, redundant versions of songs, redundant alt. configs of albums, moderately interesting or poorly recorded shows and rehearsals (not to forget the Hard Life short film )

But TBH I don't think they care much (if at all) about what we think.

I agree. I don't think we need everything, just a curated collection arranged by era of the stuff that's noteworthy and listenable.

mattosgood said:

mattosgood said:

bozojones said:

I don't think there's an actual Jamie Starr album. It seems far more likely that Prince wrote "Jamie Starr" on a tape box of protege recordings, and Charles took it at face value because he's an unqualified moron who doesn't know that Jamie Starr was Prince's producer pseudonym.

lot of assumptions in there - and a tad harsh. bordering on well... you don't know what you're talking about, so you made something up.

Facts – remember those? Facts still matter. Facts, like books and albums, still matter.

So, bear in mind Charles was a long time friend of Prince from way back and was/is a record producer in his own right

Charles doesn't know shit.

Just a true form of the 'Camille' album on vinyl.

The rest can wait.

nxx said:

What I am interested in though, is:

1. well-recorded live performances and rehearsals
2. demos and unreleased studio work which is in a decent enough state for release without significant tampering

I think this is what the majority of Prince's surviving & ageing fanbase is most interested in, so I don't believe tethering vault content to album SDEs is the right strategy anymore.

[Edited 2/7/25 23:45pm]

I understand that's what *you* are interested in. That's a perfectly reasonable preference. But please do not project your opinion onto the majority of Prince's fan base.

[Edited 2/15/25 2:26am]

mattosgood said:

Kares said:

.

What a load of bs.

how is that 'bs'?

Just look at a football match from the 80s, or pretty much anything else from back then, playbed back on 4K TVs - it's as if the whole decade was blurry (now I appreciate it may well be for some...) it goes the same for stuff you could hide in the mix back then but can't on our modern devices.

And, regardless, why would he make it up?

to me that reads like he's saying they found a collection of tracks on tape, roughly grouped
as Jamie Starr and they don't have the multi tracks, or they are damaged or whatever.

so that might mean 'we have a tape transfer, but it sounds a bit shit, we'll have to try and
get that to a point where a decent official release would be acceptable in soundquality' ?

because if they have the multi tracks for this 'album', what's the problem? the quality of a
couple older tracks they released are decent enough.

I would love Rave. But not just 1 configuration. Just give us the most completed one
or the final one and include another disc with all the tracks that were considered and
placed on it's tracklist at certain points.

It would have been cool if they'd done that for Welcome 2 America. There were some
tracks that were considered for it that were not on the ultimate release which I would
still love to hear. That's what a special edition is for, not just for pictures and boxes.

Along with Rave, most aniticipted for me personally is Madrid 2 Chicago. I'm just very
curious about it.

I feel like we might have already got some of it's tracks through the NPGMC. I could
be wrong, but I'm convinced that "Golden Parachute" comes from that album or was
at least on one of it's configs.

If you have even a reasonably well recorded multi and you're not trying to "produce" it - for example an ARCHIVAL RELEASE - then it really shouldn't take that much work to do some basic work on it and make it sound decent.

When tapes are in super bad quality, i'm sure soon AI can clean that shit up to acceptable audible sources again.

mattosgood said:

Kares said:

.

What a load of bs.

how is that 'bs'?

And, regardless, why would he make it up?

.

The "crackle and pop" he mentions are not symptoms of analog tape. Hiss is, of course, but that can be easily dealt with.

Perhaps he just doesn't chose his words carefully, thinking the public doesn't need to know technical details.

.
Anyway, analog tape is still one of the most reliable and proven technology we have, and professional format (1/2", 30ips, for example) recordings are generally still sound great, even with the occasional sticky tape syndrome or other issues. So the vast majority of the Prince Vault should still be okay, except for stuff P might have erased or mixes that were only done onto compact cassette, or digital (DASH or the even less reliable R-DAT) formats.

[Edited 2/15/25 22:34pm]

Vannormal said:

Rough said:

Of your list?

(...)

Roadhouse Garden

--> even though most of the songs were released on SOTT, maybe there are differrent versions of this songs... SPLASH is a masterpiece. so: YES, would love it.

I love the SDE concept and would love to see Parade, Lovesexy, Around the wolrd in a day, Controversy SDEs!

Wendy and Lisa stated several times in interviews that Prince literally 'erased' most things they worked on, what would eventually be released on SOTT.

He (tried) to removed most of their audible parts etc. Partly not knowing how to cope with them leaving/kicking them out/letting them go. Their relationships were so intertwined, important, that he wanted to erase the pain.

So for sure there are different versions of these songs. That other version of Strange relationship we already know.

.

I don't think W&L meant that Prince literally wiped (or recorded over) their tracks from the 2" multitrack tapes. (How would they even know such info? They weren't around anymore.) I'm pretty sure they just meant that P removed their parts from the mixes.

.

lurker316 said:

nxx said:

What I am interested in though, is:

1. well-recorded live performances and rehearsals
2. demos and unreleased studio work which is in a decent enough state for release without significant tampering

I think this is what the majority of Prince's surviving & ageing fanbase is most interested in, so I don't believe tethering vault content to album SDEs is the right strategy anymore.

[Edited 2/7/25 23:45pm]

I understand that's what *you* are interested in. That's a perfectly reasonable preference. But please do not project your opinion onto the majority of Prince's fan base.

[Edited 2/15/25 2:26am]

Am I wrong to say that Prince fans mainly want unreleased studio material and live performances?
As opposed to, remasters and 7" single edits and shit like that? It didn't seem like a controversial take to me, so I stand by it.

nxx said: