Duane Tudahl talks (in this interview, at 1u33min...) on how Prince listened to his own newly recorded music in his car, and tried to figure out how all this unreleased music possibly ended up on the bootleg market.

One verry particular story i noticed is this:

It's about Prince throwing cassettes of his own music out of his car window!
Duane Tudahl tells how Prince often listened to new recordings via cassette copies on his way home from teh studio, and if he didn't like it, he threw it out of his car window... :-O

... somewhere near a bridge?!

I mean WTF?!

Apparentely a true story... (although hard to believe I think), but possibly something Prince might've done once or twice (or to impress someone next to him? no idea).

Another story; people around him, not necessarily people who worked for him, stole cassettes from his car. He also apparently left them in his car (which sounds understandable).
Still quite strange isn't it? I for one, think Prince would either parked his car in his underground garage, locked or unlocked, talking about Pailsy Park of course. before that, when he recorded at Sunset Sound, i presume he parked his car on the locked parking lot.

We also know that he gave music cassettes to people he loved, or for whom he specially composed it. He also apparently gave cassettes to Warner Brother, who were circulating there... knowing how many people work there and ôssibly had access to these...-

Later, less unreleased music came out via bootlegs, probably due to digital recordings.

All very interesting stories, no?

Anyone else some of those bizarre stories to tell?

Vannormal said:

Duane Tudahl talkes (in this interview, at 1u33min...) on how Prince listened to his own newly recorded music in his car, and how it possibly ended up on the bootleg market.

One story is about Prince throwing cassettes of his own music out of his car window!
Duane Tudahl tells how Prince often listened to new recordings via cassette copies on his way home, and if he didn't like it, he threw it out of his car window... :-O ... somewhere near a bridge.

I mean WTF?!

Apparentely a true story? Hard to believe i think, but possibly something Prince might've done.

Another story; people around him, not necessarily people who worked for him, stole cassettes from his car. He also apparently left them in his car....
Still quite strange isn't it? I suppose Prince either parked his car in his underground garage, locked or unlocked....
We also know that he gave music cassettes to people he loved, or for whom he specially composed it.
He also apparently gave cassettes to Warner Brother, who were circulating there... knowing how many people work there and ôssibly had access to these...

Later, less unreleased music came out via bootlegs, probably due to digital recordings.

What an interesting story, no?

Most of these stories have been well known for decades. He also gave a lot of cassettes to bandmates so they could learn their parts. Many of those tapes ended up in the hands of bootleggers too.

Kares said:

Vannormal said:

Duane Tudahl talkes (in this interview, at 1u33min...) on how Prince listened to his own newly recorded music in his car, and how it possibly ended up on the bootleg market.

One story is about Prince throwing cassettes of his own music out of his car window!
Duane Tudahl tells how Prince often listened to new recordings via cassette copies on his way home, and if he didn't like it, he threw it out of his car window... :-O ... somewhere near a bridge.

I mean WTF?!

Apparentely a true story? Hard to believe i think, but possibly something Prince might've done.

Another story; people around him, not necessarily people who worked for him, stole cassettes from his car. He also apparently left them in his car....
Still quite strange isn't it? I suppose Prince either parked his car in his underground garage, locked or unlocked....
We also know that he gave music cassettes to people he loved, or for whom he specially composed it.
He also apparently gave cassettes to Warner Brother, who were circulating there... knowing how many people work there and ôssibly had access to these...

Later, less unreleased music came out via bootlegs, probably due to digital recordings.

What an interesting story, no?

Most of these stories have been well known for decades. He also gave a lot of cassettes to bandmates so they could learn their parts. Many of those tapes ended up in the hands of bootleggers too.

That we all know.

But throwing it out of his car, when he didn't liked it, near a bridge?

They're sitting at the bottom of a lake right next to the safeties of Sorry Ma, Forgot To Take Out The Trash

Vannormal said:

Another story; people around him, not necessarily people who worked for him, stole cassettes from his car. He also apparently left them in his car (which sounds understandable).
Still quite strange isn't it? I for one, think Prince would either parked his car in his underground garage

.

That story is about Wendy's or Lisa's car getting serviced in a garage. That tape is the source of the leaked Dream Factory, IIRC.

.

He also apparently gave cassettes to Warner Brother,

Warner Bros.

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

And yes, he sent tapes to Warners so they knew what they were paying for when they got the bills from Sunset Sound etc.

None of these stories are "incredible", they simply point to how lax Prince was.

That the leaks diminished in the late 1990s and beyond is probably in part due to advances in technology, but also due to Prince's inner circle becoming smaller in size.

There are plenty of stories out there, and for some outtakes we know exactly where they originated. In one case a video tape was stolen from a camera in PP; the tape contained a rehearsal and its audio has been featured on bootlegs; the person(s) who stole the tape did this during a party (IIRC) and were chased by security but escaped.

There is talk that at least one master tape that Prince left behind in a studio he used while on tour, has been stolen. Which is very believable because Susan Rogers has talked about how she had to ring up random studios to check for master tapes that had been left behind.

One remix that has been featured on several bootlegs is the result of Prince commisioning a remix from Razormaid, and then never responding to their messages and then Razormaid releasing the mix on a promo-only DJ-only compilation.

bizzie said:

Vannormal said:

Another story; people around him, not necessarily people who worked for him, stole cassettes from his car. He also apparently left them in his car (which sounds understandable).
Still quite strange isn't it? I for one, think Prince would either parked his car in his underground garage

.

That story is about Wendy's or Lisa's car getting serviced in a garage. That tape is the source of the leaked Dream Factory, IIRC.

.

He also apparently gave cassettes to Warner Brother,

.

Warner Bros.

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

fielder said:

I had a friend who believed this theory and at some point between his house being torn down and the new neighborhood being built climbed under the security frncea nd searched the area on he right side of his long driveway and found dozens of cd r's. They were all unlabeled but had music on them but unfortunately we're all well beyond being playable or recoverable but he was still pleased his theory was correct.

He told people in town that hanging CDs near the greenery (especially hostas) would keep the deer from eating them.
That sould account for your friend finding them outdoors.

We've done the same for years to keep the deer from our tomato plants.

One has to remember that the first bootlegs of outtakes didn't appear before what? 1986 or 87? And they didn't become a thing until 1988 after TBA leaked (if not the early 90s when boots became common on CD instead of LP and could easily be found anywhere, I think before that it really was a super niche market that most people weren't aware of). It took Prince some time to "compute" and take precautions, but we know when he decided to do it circa 1995, he succeeded, since barely anything from after that time ever surfaced.

So I never found it to be surprising how careless he was: it wasn't a problem yet at the time (+ let's be honest: in the 80s if you'd be walking and see a cassette laying on the pavement, you wouldn't pick it up and listen to it, let alone pick it up thinking "who knows, it may be outtakes from a superstar". I think throwing them out of a car window was actually the best way to be sure no one would hear the music on them )

databank said:

One has to remember that the first bootlegs of outtakes didn't appear before what? 1986 or 87? And they didn't become a thing until 1988 after TBA leaked (if not the early 90s when boots became common on CD instead of LP and could easily be found anywhere, I think before that it really was a super niche market that most people weren't aware of). It took Prince some time to "compute" and take precautions, but we know when he decided to do it circa 1995, he succeeded, since barely anything from after that time ever surfaced.

So I never found it to be surprising how careless he was: it wasn't a problem yet at the time (+ let's be honest: in the 80s if you'd be walking and see a cassette laying on the pavement, you wouldn't pick it up and listen to it, let alone pick it up thinking "who knows, it may be outtakes from a superstar". I think throwing them out of a car window was actually the best way to be sure no one would hear the music on them )

.
Off topic, but I just remembered that luckily for me (and other P-fans), back in 1987 the Hungarian state radio was still so lax about copyright issues that when they had a series of "Prince's Complete Recordings" they not only played single B-sides and associated artist stuff, but also entire bootlegs, including the Chocolate Box LP. Having taped the entire series of course, I wore that Chocolate Box tape to pieces in the following years.

lustmealways said:

bizzie said:

Vannormal said:

Another story; people around him, not necessarily people who worked for him, stole cassettes from his car. He also apparently left them in his car (which sounds understandable).
Still quite strange isn't it? I for one, think Prince would either parked his car in his underground garage

.

That story is about Wendy's or Lisa's car getting serviced in a garage. That tape is the source of the leaked Dream Factory, IIRC.

.

He also apparently gave cassettes to Warner Brother,

.

Warner Bros.

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

And yes, he sent tapes to Warners so they knew what they were paying for when they got the bills from Sunset Sound etc.

None of these stories are "incredible", they simply point to how lax Prince was.

.

That the leaks diminished in the late 1990s and beyond is probably in part due to advances in technology, but also due to Prince's inner circle becoming smaller in size.

There are plenty of stories out there, and for some outtakes we know exactly where they originated. In one case a video tape was stolen from a camera in PP; the tape contained a rehearsal and its audio has been featured on bootlegs; the person(s) who stole the tape did this during a party (IIRC) and were chased by security but escaped.

There is talk that at least one master tape that Prince left behind in a studio he used while on tour, has been stolen. Which is very believable because Susan Rogers has talked about how she had to ring up random studios to check for master tapes that had been left behind.

One remix that has been featured on several bootlegs is the result of Prince commisioning a remix from Razormaid, and then never responding to their messages and then Razormaid releasing the mix on a promo-only DJ-only compilation.

Videotape.

Kares said:

databank said:

One has to remember that the first bootlegs of outtakes didn't appear before what? 1986 or 87? And they didn't become a thing until 1988 after TBA leaked (if not the early 90s when boots became common on CD instead of LP and could easily be found anywhere, I think before that it really was a super niche market that most people weren't aware of). It took Prince some time to "compute" and take precautions, but we know when he decided to do it circa 1995, he succeeded, since barely anything from after that time ever surfaced.

So I never found it to be surprising how careless he was: it wasn't a problem yet at the time (+ let's be honest: in the 80s if you'd be walking and see a cassette laying on the pavement, you wouldn't pick it up and listen to it, let alone pick it up thinking "who knows, it may be outtakes from a superstar". I think throwing them out of a car window was actually the best way to be sure no one would hear the music on them )

.
Off topic, but I just remembered that luckily for me (and other P-fans), back in 1987 the Hungarian state radio was still so lax about copyright issues that when they had a series of "Prince's Complete Recordings" they not only played single B-sides and associated artist stuff, but also entire bootlegs, including the Chocolate Box LP. Having taped the entire series of course, I wore that Chocolate Box tape to pieces in the following years.

One major French radio station also played boots circa 92-94. They had this weekly show playing only live versions of hits, and when a song didn't exist on official releases, they just played a song from a soundboard boot (which I realized when they played some Prince stuff I knew wasn't out there). No big deal sinc the songs were released and royalties were paid, but it surprised me back then.

databank said:

One has to remember that the first bootlegs of outtakes didn't appear before what? 1986 or 87? And they didn't become a thing until 1988 after TBA leaked (if not the early 90s when boots became common on CD instead of LP and could easily be found anywhere, I think before that it really was a super niche market that most people weren't aware of). It took Prince some time to "compute" and take precautions, but we know when he decided to do it circa 1995, he succeeded, since barely anything from after that time ever surfaced.

So I never found it to be surprising how careless he was: it wasn't a problem yet at the time (+ let's be honest: in the 80s if you'd be walking and see a cassette laying on the pavement, you wouldn't pick it up and listen to it, let alone pick it up thinking "who knows, it may be outtakes from a superstar". I think throwing them out of a car window was actually the best way to be sure no one would hear the music on them )

Slightly more off-topic... Back in the '90s I was in the process of moving to another US state. I had all of my wordly possessions, including a box with all of my Prince bootlegs, stored in my brother's car overnight. My brother forgot to lock his car. Someone went into it and stole all of my stuff. I was most devestated about the loss of my bootleg collection because much of it was irreplaceable (this was before the internet, so it wasn't as simple as emailing a friend and asking for another copy). Other items, such my television, were a financial blow, but could be replaced in time.

How does this relate to what you wrote? I imagine the person who stole my stuff simply tossed my cassettes and CDs into a dumpster without bothering to listen to them. And even if they did listen to them, it's unlikely that person was a Prince fan, so they still would have tossed them into a dumpster.

And that's the most painful idea of all: that all of my bootlegs are rotting in a dump, unlistened to and unappreciated. I would genuniely feel better if I'm wrong and the thief was a Prince fan who kept them and routinely listens to them.

databank said:

One has to remember that the first bootlegs of outtakes didn't appear before what? 1986 or 87? And they didn't become a thing until 1988 after TBA leaked (if not the early 90s when boots became common on CD instead of LP and could easily be found anywhere, I think before that it really was a super niche market that most people weren't aware of). It took Prince some time to "compute" and take precautions, but we know when he decided to do it circa 1995, he succeeded, since barely anything from after that time ever surfaced.

So I never found it to be surprising how careless he was: it wasn't a problem yet at the time (+ let's be honest: in the 80s if you'd be walking and see a cassette laying on the pavement, you wouldn't pick it up and listen to it, let alone pick it up thinking "who knows, it may be outtakes from a superstar". I think throwing them out of a car window was actually the best way to be sure no one would hear the music on them )

First bootleg I ever seen and purchased was "Rotterdam '86", and was instantantly hooked with the idea of an underground world of recordings, even if the sound quality took a lot of time to be used to it.

.

The first bootleg with studio material that I ever discovered was "Charade", and a bit later "Chocolate Box".

.

All this happened around late 1987 or most likely 1988. Hard to remember, but exciting times.

.

I guess quite a lot of us can relate to these times and feelings.

bozojones said:

bizzie said:

.

Warner Bros.

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Thank you l'ange blue, I appreciate it.

-

Still appreciate also the story of Bart about that master tape that Prince left behind in the studio; also never heard that one.

Like to know more about it.

-

For me, Prince throwing out a car window "a copy" of what he recorded is insane.

Then I imagine he gets back at the studio later, and destroys the original also?

Probably not.

Besides all these stories, it remains unbelievable how much he kept in that vault to be honest.

And how unbelievably badly organised, maintained, etc.

Why keep things if you don't take care of it?

For sure for more reasons than just to 'keep it'.

He must've had in his mind an idea to use it once, or have it released one day, just like he mentioned a couple of times, by him or others.

I wonder what else ever ended up in a bin in PP for example. ))

Do they put out the trash can every week? Or do they have a private company coming to colect the trash?

I'm getting al excited here now...

...trash wise! lol

Vannormal said:

bozojones said:

Comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Thank you l'ange blue, I appreciate it.

-

Still appreciate also the story of Bart about that master tape that Prince left behind in the studio; also never heard that one.

Like to know more about it.

-

For me, Prince throwing out a car window "a copy" of what he recorded is insane.

Then I imagine he gets back at the studio later, and destroys the original also?

Probably not.

Besides all these stories, it remains unbelievable how much he kept in that vault to be honest.

And how unbelievably badly organised, maintained, etc.

Why keep things if you don't take care of it?

For sure for more reasons than just to 'keep it'.

He must've had in his mind an idea to use it once, or have it released one day, just like he mentioned a couple of times, by him or others.

I wonder what else ever ended up in a bin in PP for example. ))

Do they put out the trash can every week? Or do they have a private company coming to colect the trash?

I'm getting al excited here now...

...trash wise! lol