sequenceriver said:

RODSERLING said:

Prince Tenderoni : That song was supposed to be recorded to be proposed for MJ. Prince sent Sheila E in person to give him the song, circa 1986. He listened to it in its studio, and said to Sheila E " Prince Tenderoni 's gonna be my lead single. I want it on my new album Quincy". Quincy frowned. He already rejected Streetwalker, because to his ears, Another Part of me was better. He was about to give up on Smooth Criminal... Then, suddenly, MJ erased the song and said to Sheila E " Love is my message. Prince Tenderoni is not my message " And that's about all. Prince gave the song to Bobby Brown, Prince released SOTT, with the success we all know, which lead to the creation of Prince.org, and about 666 topics about " What if Emancipation were on 1 CD"? [Edited 8/19/24 18:06pm]

I think it's going to be a blast.

bizzie said:

IanRG said:

No, it is worse than that: We have living people who want to find anything to disagree with Sheila E about. She is also alive and was involved with the recording and all that people can do is point out is that the original rejection of the MJ duet offer by Prince was likely made before Paisley Park was opened. This does not allow for Sheila E forgetting that the original offer may have been made before Paisley Park but remembering where the recording was made. It does not consider that perhaps this previously disclosed duet offer could have been for a later remix release rather than for the bad release. None of this potential confusion indicates when or where the recording was made and deleted. Here only the alive people who were actually involved would know.

P.S. There is no point in MJ debating this, even if he was alive, because MJ was not there when the recording was made.

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Oh please, get over yourself. You pretend that your scenario is reasonable, despite the fact that the video for "Bad" was recorded in late 1986, and that the offer for a duet was CLEARLY made long before that. Plenty of people have talked about that duet, and no one ever pretended that this was done very late for a maxi-single or so.

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Go on, give us an example of a maxi-single from Bad that contained a duet version instead of remixes of the album track.

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You know damn well that Sheila's claim of this happening at PP is horseshit, and this isn't the first time she's messed up her timelines. (IIRC she once claimed she recorded her second album at PP -- which didn't exist at that time) Why are you so desperate to defend her that you're imagining a scenario that is completely unrealistic and based on literally zero evidence?

I am not defending her. I am merely pointing out that what she said was reasonable except the location of the original rejection and that she would know much better than you. The problem is you failed to read the highlighted sentence.

Ultimately all you can do is point out that the location may have been wrong, which is exactly what I said above. All the rest you have no reason to assume it was horseshit. So all we have yet another thread where certain Org people just like to dump on anyone who worked with Prince.

bizzie said:

IanRG said:

The error could be mostly by us and all there that is her's is an error in the initial location. It is possible that people here are conflating two separate events at two different times:

1 The initial offer by MJ to do a Bad duet: Perhaps she got the location wrong but we know the offer was made by MJ and rejected by Prince.

2 There is no reason to assume the recording and its immediate deletion were made before the rejection. That is not what the article says. It says:

"Prince's consideration of "Bad" didn't end there [i.e. at the rejection], as she joined him to "re-record" the song at his iconic Paisley Park home studio in Minnesota [therefore after the rejection]. "It was so funky, it was so amazing. It was an incredible rendition of what it should've been," she said on The Jason Show. And then after we recorded it, we're like, 'Oh my God, we can't wait for Michael to hear it.' But, for whatever reason, Prince didn't wish to. "Then Prince went like this," she said, signifying him pushing a button. "And he erased the whole thing. Right there."

This means the recording could have been made later and at Paisley Park. It did not have to be made before Prince's rejection and Sheila hints that it was afterwards.

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LOL. Yeah sure, Prince got a demo from MJ and rejected the offer for a duet and then WAITED A WHOLE YEAR to record his own version. The offer from MJ was in late Summer 1986. PP didn't open until June 1987.

He may have waited several years after he rejected doing a duet with MJ (and in doing so joined people like Whitney and Streisand). That is the point that Shiela E was making - Prince's dislike of such a bad song continued after his rejection of being involved with it. Prince is known to have recorded lots of covers - almost all being done long after the original because almost none of them were released. That he did it to show those with him that he could a much better version was hardly a stretch target. Weird Al's version was also so much better.

bboy87 said:

IanRG said:

bizzie said:

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LOL. Yeah sure, Prince got a demo from MJ and rejected the offer for a duet and then WAITED A WHOLE YEAR to record his own version. The offer from MJ was in late Summer 1986. PP didn't open until June 1987.

He may have waited several years after he rejected doing a duet with MJ (and in doing so joined people like Whitney and Streisand).

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WTF have Streisand etc. to do with this?

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Prince was notoriously impulsive, hence him announcing new albums. And you're pretending that Prince heard the Bad deomo, and then waited a year to record his own version? For fuck's sake, we have an example of his impulsive ideas from not long after: Madonna sends him Like A Prayer, he returns it with a crazy guitar track all over it. Kate Bush sends him a song, he returns a remix that is a complete rework. He didn't wait a year, he did this immediately. He recorded SOTT mere days after an earthquake and filled it with lines he took from a newspaper. Tons of stories of Prince acting on impulse, and AFAIK none where HE WAITED A YEAR.

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That is the point that Shiela E was making - Prince's dislike of such a bad song continued after his rejection of being involved with it.

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No, Sheila's point was about her demanding unlimited access to PP because the two of them did so much together there, which she illustrated with an example that 99.99% did not happen at PP but at Sunset Sound. Sheila's story wasn't: he got the demo, and then WAITED A YEAR to record a mockign cover. That's a scenario YOU invented to defend Sheila. Again: there are plenty of examples of Sheila being wild of the mark when it comes to dates and places, even in her own fucking book.

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Want one? https://musicfans.stackex...-life-in-a . Oh look, Sheila wildly embellishing the truth and even lying.

bizzie said:

IanRG said:

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WTF have Streisand etc. to do with this?

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Prince was notoriously impulsive, hence him announcing new albums. And you're pretending that Prince heard the Bad deomo, and then waited a year to record his own version? For fuck's sake, we have an example of his impulsive ideas from not long after: Madonna sends him Like A Prayer, he returns it with a crazy guitar track all over it. Kate Bush sends him a song, he returns a remix that is a complete rework. He didn't wait a year, he did this immediately. He recorded SOTT mere days after an earthquake and filled it with lines he took from a newspaper. Tons of stories of Prince acting on impulse, and AFAIK none where HE WAITED A YEAR.

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That is the point that Shiela E was making - Prince's dislike of such a bad song continued after his rejection of being involved with it.

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No, Sheila's point was about her demanding unlimited access to PP because the two of them did so much together there, which she illustrated with an example that 99.99% did not happen at PP but at Sunset Sound. Sheila's story wasn't: he got the demo, and then WAITED A YEAR to record a mockign cover. That's a scenario YOU invented to defend Sheila. Again: there are plenty of examples of Sheila being wild of the mark when it comes to dates and places, even in her own fucking book.

Please try to keep up - To restate the blindingly obvious:

1 Whitney and Streisand both decided that working with MJ would be bad for them and they rejected MJ's offer to do duets.

2 I am not pretending anything - In fact, it is you who is pretending to know when Prince recorded a cover of a song that was immediately deleted. The key difference between your anecdotal examples with Madonna and Kate Bush is that Prince is known to have sent the musical response soon after to Madonna and Kate Bush and this was because he was potentially INTERESTED in working with them - Yet your assumption based on your imagination is based on a song that we know from multiple sources that Prince did NOT send any musical response to the demo to MJ because Prince was NOT INTERESTED because MJ's demo was crap.

3 Sure, Prince is known for being sometimes impulsive but he is also known for doing covers of songs long after they were first released. He is further known for reworking and reworking and reworking songs, themes and concepts for a song over years and even decades. We all could just as easily make a long list of the times that a song on an album had a long history of development before it was released and songs where part of the words or music were already released as in previous songs.

4 You are once again conflating two separate things - Prince rightly rejected doing a duet of such a bad song very shortly after MJ send a demo. In the part of the article that YOU quoted it states "As Sheila E. now recalls, Prince's consideration of "Bad" didn't end there". This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Sheila wanting access to PP - It is exclusively about what she recalls Prince doing AFTER rejecting the duet offer i.e. he rejected it and it did not END there. This is not me making up anything, not me assuming anything to fit a narrative - This is YOU making up a timeline that goes directly against what YOU chose to quote. It is you seeking to make this part of the narrative that you want to believe.

So, yes, I completely agree with you that "Sheila's story wasn't: he got the demo, and then WAITED A YEAR to record a mockign [sic] cover". Sheila's story is he got a demo with an offer to do a duet and Prince immediately rejected it. However, this did not end there because some undisclosed time later (I never said 1 year later, that was your assumption) Prince demonstrated to the people he worked with that bad could have been good but for MJ. That is the point Sheila made - perhaps the recording was an impulsive response to someone espousing that that Prince should have taken up MJ's duet offer. This has been been said many people over years including here many, many times. If this is the scenario, it would therefore mean the recording could have been long after the initial offer.

[Edited 8/22/24 5:46am]

Why aren't the Rules of the Discussion Forum monitored and enforced?

Where you been?

rap said:

Why aren't the Rules of the Discussion Forum monitored and enforced?

Sorry, I do appreciate that I have broken two Lores of the Org.

Never state a position that puts Prince above MJ, and

Never make a cogent argument against a position taken here against an artist who worked with Prince, especially if they rap or are Sheila E.

IanRG said:

rap said:

Why aren't the Rules of the Discussion Forum monitored and enforced?

Sorry, I do appreciate that I have broken two Lores of the Org.

Never state a position that puts Prince above MJ, and

Never make a cogent argument against a position taken here against an artist who worked with Prince, especially if they rap or are Sheila E.

It was aimed at Bort, and not you.

rap said:

IanRG said:

Sorry, I do appreciate that I have broken two Lores of the Org.

Never state a position that puts Prince above MJ, and

Never make a cogent argument against a position taken here against an artist who worked with Prince, especially if they rap or are Sheila E.

It was aimed at Bort, and not you.

All good. I was just jesting with law vs lore.