Krid said:

I for one don't want 27 live concerts in a super deluxe edition... would never listen to that...

I would much rather have 1-2 well-curated CD-length releases each year, like the Originals release or the 83 PM release - which I could really put on repeat listening

But of course to each his/her own

Both Originals and the Piano and Mic 83 release were god awful in concept and execution, but ok.

Consider: they can release something very large and then pare down to highlights on a smaller offering for people in your position. everyone wins.

Krid said:

SoulAlive said:

a 27-disc box set!! Giving the fans what they really want!!

I for one don't want 27 live concerts in a super deluxe edition... would never listen to that...

I would much rather have 1-2 well-curated CD-length releases each year, like the Originals release or the 83 PM release - which I could really put on repeat listening

But of course to each his/her own

teh 83 Piano disc is a cool littl thing but Originals I could do without. I don't need Prince's tracks be given the Eye Records treatment by some third party engineer who thinks he knows better than Prince and his engineer who recorded the track.
I also want the real original Prince versions not the version he was already reworking for someone else or some third party engineer getting creative by replacing vocals on finished tracks with Prince's demo vocals, just release the demo as is.

With Prince shows being quite long, and plentiful, I'm not sure how big these box sets would end up being? Maybe too big?

I can see 21 nights in London, plus the aftershows, being a great set. Not sure how much I'd listen to, but a nice set to have.

31 nights in Vegas (was it 31 nights? Maybe more shows than that?)

Not sure we need every night of the Nude tour though!?

Krid said:

SoulAlive said:

a 27-disc box set!! Giving the fans what they really want!!

I for one don't want 27 live concerts in a super deluxe edition... would never listen to that...

I would much rather have 1-2 well-curated CD-length releases each year, like the Originals release or the 83 PM release - which I could really put on repeat listening

But of course to each his/her own

They should do both. Huge/archival releases for people who like them. Curated / "best of" compilations for people who don't have the time (or the motivation) to listen to longer, more complete releases.

happyshopper said:

With Prince shows being quite long, and plentiful, I'm not sure how big these box sets would end up being? Maybe too big?

I can see 21 nights in London, plus the aftershows, being a great set. Not sure how much I'd listen to, but a nice set to have.

31 nights in Vegas (was it 31 nights? Maybe more shows than that?)

Not sure we need every night of the Nude tour though!?

One release per main tour would be a good start. That's already 30-40 shows to release. They would need to be carefully selected, of course. For aftershows / one-off performances, we probably need way more shows per year/period.

I mean, I wouldn't have the time to listen to 30-40 concerts from the same tour either.

JorisE73 said:

Vannormal said:

Fully agree !

But, to be honest, we still have NOTHING instead, and Bob's fans do.

true, but I would rather have NOTHING (there are more than enough bootlegs to listen to) than whatever this incomplete release is. NOTHING is still better than a turd.
I would rather listen to a complete show in great audence recording than a incomplete/edited soundboard recording.
We have that awful One Nite Alone boxset that I never listen to because the complete audience recordings of the shows they used are much better.

[Edited 7/10/24 4:49am]

I have to agree again.

Krid said:

SoulAlive said:

a 27-disc box set!! Giving the fans what they really want!!

I for one don't want 27 live concerts in a super deluxe edition... would never listen to that...

I would much rather have 1-2 well-curated CD-length releases each year, like the Originals release or the 83 PM release - which I could really put on repeat listening

But of course to each his/her own

I enjoy listening to multiple shows from the same tour.Several years ago,I purchased a 16-CD box set from Chicago,featuring all of their shows from Carnegie Hall in 1970.

If the Prince estate were to do something like this,they would have so many amazing eras/tours to choose from! How about a massive set focusing on 1988 (Lovesexy era) with the aftershows too?! Or an early 80s set focusing on Dirty Mind and Controversy shows? The possibilities are endless.

lustmealways said:

The biggest travesty with this set is that they didn't tape the only time he ever did "As I Went Out One Morning" which is one of the greatest songs ever written by anybody...

happyshopper said:

With Prince shows being quite long, and plentiful, I'm not sure how big these box sets would end up being? Maybe too big?

I can see 21 nights in London, plus the aftershows, being a great set. Not sure how much I'd listen to, but a nice set to have.

31 nights in Vegas (was it 31 nights? Maybe more shows than that?)

Not sure we need every night of the Nude tour though!?

I know what you mean, but I'd purchase that in a heartbeat

psyche2 said:

happyshopper said:

With Prince shows being quite long, and plentiful, I'm not sure how big these box sets would end up being? Maybe too big?

I can see 21 nights in London, plus the aftershows, being a great set. Not sure how much I'd listen to, but a nice set to have.

31 nights in Vegas (was it 31 nights? Maybe more shows than that?)

Not sure we need every night of the Nude tour though!?

I know what you mean, but I'd purchase that in a heartbeat

I'm a bit torn on this issue. In an ideal world, all concerts should be available in one form or another, probably as downloads (FLAC, MP3, etc.) from an official store, but I guess a selection of those concerts (which ones?) should be available on CD and/or vinyl as well.

PrinceVault is currently listing 2032 concerts on their "All Performances: 1979 - 2016" page:

https://princevault.com/i...l_Concerts

That's approximately 3048 hours of music. At 10 hours a day, you could listen to all those concerts in one year. Not very realistic, but feasible. I guess a few fans would do it...

I enjoy listening to all those 1995 Paisley Park shows, for example, but I can't see myself listening to 56 Nude Tour concerts one after the other. Maybe in shuffle mode? Or alternating between different tours?

happyshopper said:

With Prince shows being quite long, and plentiful, I'm not sure how big these box sets would end up being? Maybe too big?

I can see 21 nights in London, plus the aftershows, being a great set. Not sure how much I'd listen to, but a nice set to have.

31 nights in Vegas (was it 31 nights? Maybe more shows than that?)

Not sure we need every night of the Nude tour though!?

We probably don't, although I would take it as Prince had a way of doing things slightly different each night that can make a great rendition of a song even better.

But, we wouldn't need it as there are a number of stand out shows during each era and aftershows that would be great to have in solid quality.

Man I'd kill for soundboards of those late 95 paisley shows...

lustmealways said:

Man I'd kill for soundboards of those late 95 paisley shows...

100% that one version of Johnny has such a great funky intro I'd love to have all of those Park Session shows with great sound.

claudemorton said:

lustmealways said:

Man I'd kill for soundboards of those late 95 paisley shows...

100% that one version of Johnny has such a great funky intro I'd love to have all of those Park Session shows with great sound.

Imagine them releasing a complete Paisley Park shows series on Bluray (audio and video) easy money.
A complete First Avenue boxset audio and video would b killer to.

Krid said:

SoulAlive said:

a 27-disc box set!! Giving the fans what they really want!!

I for one don't want 27 live concerts in a super deluxe edition... would never listen to that...

I would much rather have 1-2 well-curated CD-length releases each year, like the Originals release or the 83 PM release - which I could really put on repeat listening

But of course to each his/her own

Once again, Prince fans asking the Estate to release LESS material, which endlessly confuses me. How could it possibly be wrong for the Estate to release things one isn't compelled to purchase (or can listen to for free anyway if they so wish), as opposed to not releasing it? (for as long as they don't butcher the job, of course, but if the sound quality is as good as it can be and there's no posthumous frankensteining, I guess we can live, as others said, without fancy booklets and liner notes).

.

+ with the kind of price this Dylan set is released at vs current Estate prices, we'd probably pay as much for 2 CDs than for a 27 CDs set.

olb99 said:

happyshopper said:

With Prince shows being quite long, and plentiful, I'm not sure how big these box sets would end up being? Maybe too big?

I can see 21 nights in London, plus the aftershows, being a great set. Not sure how much I'd listen to, but a nice set to have.

31 nights in Vegas (was it 31 nights? Maybe more shows than that?)

Not sure we need every night of the Nude tour though!?

One release per main tour would be a good start. That's already 30-40 shows to release. They would need to be carefully selected, of course. For aftershows / one-off performances, we probably need way more shows per year/period.

I mean, I wouldn't have the time to listen to 30-40 concerts from the same tour either.

Based on the 1999 and SOTT SDEs, it appears that, for the earliest tours at least, the sound quality of most existing soundboard recordings leaves a lot to be desired (muddy sound on the 1999 video concert, barely audible audience on the SOTT audio one), so anyway there's little chances the Estate can bet on using many of those for fancy releases, leaving them the option to find a reasonably priced solution to release them for the hardcore fans (an online shop or a subscrition service) or sit on them forever (which they may very well do). Same goes with rehearsals, soundchecks, practice sessions and many alternate mixes of demos, BTW.

.

As for time, I guess it's a matter of "better have it at hand and not listen to it all than not to have it when one would like to listen to some of it". I either wouldn't spend whole days listening to all shows of the same tour one after the other, but if I had them, I guess I'd eventually find time to listen to everything at the rate of a couple or so a week.

lustmealways said:

Krid said:

I for one don't want 27 live concerts in a super deluxe edition... would never listen to that...

I would much rather have 1-2 well-curated CD-length releases each year, like the Originals release or the 83 PM release - which I could really put on repeat listening

But of course to each his/her own

Both Originals and the Piano and Mic 83 release were god awful in concept and execution, but ok.

Agreed.

.

Apparently some efforts could have been made to correct the hiss and pitch problem on P&AM83, but it wasn't done (presumably to cut costs, despîte Howe's nonsensical pretense of wanting to release it the way it was found (then why didn't they release irt only on Maxwell cassettes while they were at it?).

.

As for Originals, it's still baffling that anyone could claim this was a good release when we know how much tinkering took place with the material (not to mention a tracklist that pretty much flows like an 80 years-old woman's menstruations).

.

After all these years, it's a big problem to see hardcore fans still claiming such dubious releases were "xell curated". Why should the Estate make any effort if they can just feed the audience anything and get praise for it?

.

Not to be all negative, not everything was bad and I'm not claiming curating a music catalogue with budget constraints is an easy task, but I'm still waiting for a posthumous release that wouldn't contain any technical issue nor any posthumous frankensteining of any sort.

Yeah, the only reason some tracks/music are/is 'missing' from the Dylan set, are because either a) the soundboard tapes don't exist or didn't survive, or b) they were tracks performed by The Band, without Dylan. While it would be nice to have those tracks too, that was never going to happen in a set like this, which is a Bob Dylan box set.

With the Rolling Thunder 1975 Live Recordings box set, only Dylan's tracks were included, when many other artists performed as well, so there's a precedent for it. And licensing-wise I'm sure it creates all kinds of problems.

Dylan's label were doing standard copyright dumps (and probably will do more), but - mostly with the 1970 one that featured George Harrison, where they realised there was a bigger audience for this and actually had to re-release it quicksmart to undercut scalpers who were reselling it for thousands as a 'rarity' - they've started to package them up a bit more smartly.

They did this with Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings, which was a box with 32 CDs in for about £100, and they're doing similarly here. 66 was an icoonic tour and 74 was Dylan's first 'comeback' tour after his motorcycle accident and self-imposed seclusion after the craziness of 66, so it makes sense to release this one as well in this way.

You get the CDs in simple but nicely presented printed slipcases, plus (I think) a simple booklet, and a box to house them in, that's it. It's great value for money.

Some people find it overwhelming, which is understandable, but it makes for a great archive collection, to be dipped into periodically rather than played beginning to end.

Anyway, I'm SO glad Dylan's camp have been great at releasing archive material. It would be AMAZING if Prince's camp could finally cotton on to the fact that THIS is how maintain an artist's legacy, and keep money rolling in.

Dylan isn't a chart-topper, yet there's plenty of people who want all of these archival releases (I'm one of them! Give me every single one!)...

Prince's estate are still misguidedly thinking that he should be having 'hits', which is basically impossible - not only because time and trends have moved on, but also because Prince is now deceased... he is a legacy artist, and his body of work should be treated as such.

This is exactly what they've done with Bowie, and it's what they've done with Dylan - only Dylan has been smart enough to do it while he's still around.

There's good money to be made and great albums/collections to be compiled and enjoyed.

Apart from legal wranglings holding things up, the only reason behind Prince's estate not releasing titles like this and in this way is shortsightedness/lack of understanding of who/what the artist they're dealing with actually is, and that is a LEGACY artist.

lustmealways said:

Guys, no hate, but you're losing the plot here. There's little actual evidence to suggest anything was edited out of this Dylan set as opposed to what actually happened which is only wanting to use soundboards (i think) and some material being damaged/missing/not taped. The actual "bootleg series" bob releases have been fairly paltry since 2018, I will grant you that, but this primarily serves as a copyright dump and the fact that they went to almost 30 discs and are still including performances that aren't even taped all the way through leads me to believe there was very little, if any, "edits"

don't let perfect be the enemy of good. sets of this magnitude is where the prince estate needs to go if there's any desire for even half the vault stuff to be released anytime soon. nothing will ever be done the exact way you want it to.

databank said:

olb99 said:

One release per main tour would be a good start. That's already 30-40 shows to release. They would need to be carefully selected, of course. For aftershows / one-off performances, we probably need way more shows per year/period.

I mean, I wouldn't have the time to listen to 30-40 concerts from the same tour either.

Based on the 1999 and SOTT SDEs, it appears that, for the earliest tours at least, the sound quality of most existing soundboard recordings leaves a lot to be desired (muddy sound on the 1999 video concert, barely audible audience on the SOTT audio one), so anyway there's little chances the Estate can bet on using many of those for fancy releases, leaving them the option to find a reasonably priced solution to release them for the hardcore fans (an online shop or a subscrition service) or sit on them forever (which they may very well do). Same goes with rehearsals, soundchecks, practice sessions and many alternate mixes of demos, BTW.

.

As for time, I guess it's a matter of "better have it at hand and not listen to it all than not to have it when one would like to listen to some of it". I either wouldn't spend whole days listening to all shows of the same tour one after the other, but if I had them, I guess I'd eventually find time to listen to everything at the rate of a couple or so a week.

David Z. mentioned that he mixed the SOTT concert for the SDE exactly as how it sounded at the venue. As if we live in that venue
I hope they will remix it one day so it sounds like it should at home.

JorisE73 said:

donovd said:

JorisE73 said:

David Z. mentioned that he mixed the SOTT concert for the SDE exactly as how it sounded at the venue. As if we live in that venue
I hope they will remix it one day so it sounds like it should at home.

I think that's 1999 Deluxe concert from Detroit. https://superdeluxeeditio...-material/

Indeed, and I think David Z did a great job with that one show. I may be wrong, but IIRC, the 1999 video and the SOTT audio shows (if not the video SOTT show, too), were not mixed because (at least in the case of SOTT audio), no multitrack existed and all they found was the rough mix made on the day of the show itself. I believe Scott Baldwin once explained in a podcast that many shows only existed as they were mixed on the spot and that only specific shows were multitracked. Nothing the Estate can do about that, though I suspect some improvement could have been possible when it comes to 1999 video's sound (it sounds like the audio comes straight from videocassette, not an audio archive), but I may be wrong about that.

donovd said:

JorisE73 said:

David Z. mentioned that he mixed the SOTT concert for the SDE exactly as how it sounded at the venue. As if we live in that venue
I hope they will remix it one day so it sounds like it should at home.

I think that's 1999 Deluxe concert from Detroit. https://superdeluxeeditio...-material/

Ah ok, then he did a good job. I thought he did teh SOTT audio show

databank said:

donovd said:

JorisE73 said: I think that's 1999 Deluxe concert from Detroit. https://superdeluxeeditio...-material/

Indeed, and I think David Z did a great job with that one show. I may be wrong, but IIRC, the 1999 video and the SOTT audio shows (if not the video SOTT show, too), were not mixed because (at least in the case of SOTT audio), no multitrack existed and all they found was the rough mix made on the day of the show itself. I believe Scott Baldwin once explained in a podcast that many shows only existed as they were mixed on the spot and that only specific shows were multitracked. Nothing the Estate can do about that, though I suspect some improvement could have been possible when it comes to 1999 video's sound (it sounds like the audio comes straight from videocassette, not an audio archive), but I may be wrong about that.

The fact that most shows were only recorded on DAT (IIRC), at least in the early 2000s, was mentioned in the Peach and Black podcast. Scottie was also interviewed for the Prince Podcast, but I haven't listened to that interview (yet).

"Nothing the Estate can do about that". I'm pretty sure source/stem (AI) separaration software will become way better in the future. They're already being used nowadays, but I guess they will become a serious alternative to multitracks for remixing (i.e. creating new mixes ) existing stereo mixes.

olb99 said:

databank said:

Indeed, and I think David Z did a great job with that one show. I may be wrong, but IIRC, the 1999 video and the SOTT audio shows (if not the video SOTT show, too), were not mixed because (at least in the case of SOTT audio), no multitrack existed and all they found was the rough mix made on the day of the show itself. I believe Scott Baldwin once explained in a podcast that many shows only existed as they were mixed on the spot and that only specific shows were multitracked. Nothing the Estate can do about that, though I suspect some improvement could have been possible when it comes to 1999 video's sound (it sounds like the audio comes straight from videocassette, not an audio archive), but I may be wrong about that.

The fact that most shows were only recorded on DAT (IIRC), at least in the early 2000s, was mentioned in the Peach and Black podcast. Scottie was also interviewed for the Prince Podcast, but I haven't listened to that interview (yet).

"Nothing the Estate can do about that". I'm pretty sure source/stem (AI) separaration software will become way better in the future. They're already being used nowadays, but I guess they will become a serious alternative to multitracks for remixing (i.e. creating new mixes ) existing stereo mixes.

This is a bit like those video screen 'recordings' for his concerts.
I asked in 90 at the Nude tour show what happened after the show to the footage of the performance and they said that that footage are 'one-off' shots that they do record (for Prince) but can't be edited because what you see on those big screen during a show are live edited and can't be reedited because the film they used gets reused the day after for another show and all that is left is whatever edit they showed on the screen that night and that footage went straight to Prince's people.

JorisE73 said:

olb99 said:

The fact that most shows were only recorded on DAT (IIRC), at least in the early 2000s, was mentioned in the Peach and Black podcast. Scottie was also interviewed for the Prince Podcast, but I haven't listened to that interview (yet).

"Nothing the Estate can do about that". I'm pretty sure source/stem (AI) separaration software will become way better in the future. They're already being used nowadays, but I guess they will become a serious alternative to multitracks for remixing (i.e. creating new mixes ) existing stereo mixes.

This is a bit like those video screen 'recordings' for his concerts.
I asked in 90 at the Nude tour show what happened after the show to the footage of the performance and they said that that footage are 'one-off' shots that they do record (for Prince) but can't be edited because what you see on those big screen during a show are live edited and can't be reedited because the film they used gets reused the day after for another show and all that is left is whatever edit they showed on the screen that night and that footage went straight to Prince's people.

Yeah, there are probably very few cases where individual camera recordings are available. Montreux 2013 is one such case.

[Edited 7/13/24 5:22am]

olb99 said:

JorisE73 said:

This is a bit like those video screen 'recordings' for his concerts.
I asked in 90 at the Nude tour show what happened after the show to the footage of the performance and they said that that footage are 'one-off' shots that they do record (for Prince) but can't be edited because what you see on those big screen during a show are live edited and can't be reedited because the film they used gets reused the day after for another show and all that is left is whatever edit they showed on the screen that night and that footage went straight to Prince's people.

Yeah, there are probably very few cases where individual camera recordings are available. Montreux 2013 is one such case.

[Edited 7/13/24 5:22am]

And Yokohama 86 it seems, because the Estate has a different edit to the one some private collector showed the night after

JorisE73 said:

databank said:

Based on the 1999 and SOTT SDEs, it appears that, for the earliest tours at least, the sound quality of most existing soundboard recordings leaves a lot to be desired (muddy sound on the 1999 video concert, barely audible audience on the SOTT audio one), so anyway there's little chances the Estate can bet on using many of those for fancy releases, leaving them the option to find a reasonably priced solution to release them for the hardcore fans (an online shop or a subscrition service) or sit on them forever (which they may very well do). Same goes with rehearsals, soundchecks, practice sessions and many alternate mixes of demos, BTW.

.

As for time, I guess it's a matter of "better have it at hand and not listen to it all than not to have it when one would like to listen to some of it". I either wouldn't spend whole days listening to all shows of the same tour one after the other, but if I had them, I guess I'd eventually find time to listen to everything at the rate of a couple or so a week.

David Z. mentioned that he mixed the SOTT concert for the SDE exactly as how it sounded at the venue. As if we live in that venue
I hope they will remix it one day so it sounds like it should at home.

I guess I'm on the minority here, but I *LOVE* the sound of the SOTT Utrecht show. Give me a dry soundboard recording anytime, we've been having lousy audience recordings all the way.

psyche2 said:

Rimshottbob said:

Anyway, I'm SO glad Dylan's camp have been great at releasing archive material. It would be AMAZING if Prince's camp could finally cotton on to the fact that THIS is how maintain an artist's legacy, and keep money rolling in.

.

We should have gotten all of this from Prince, but he was too busy with his "I'm only looking forward" BS while performing entire tours that didn't feature a single song he'd recorded in the past ten years.

.

He always made this big deal out of "I don't care", but then why not give it to an outsider to curate and convert into money? Instead he stuffed it into a broken vault and then it all became near worthless when the music industry collapsed.

.

So much wasted time. So much money that he didn't earn and instead went to bootleggers who did provide fans with what they wanted. Meanwhile Dylan already was using his archive as far back as 1985(!) to compile a box set, whereas Prince was sabotaging Warners' efforts to compile a greatest hits in the late 1980s.

.

Eight years after Prince's death and there's at least one CD's worth of tracks that have only been released on vinyl and several CDs worth of released tracks that have not yet been released in remastered quality. Let alone all the released tracks from protégé acts which are hard to obtain and haven't been re-released in remastered quality. We're 6.5 months into this year and so far the estate has managed to release three archival tracks in the most incompetent way possible. THREE. TRACKS.