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Thread started 11/07/23 5:18pm

26ten

Chaos and Disorder

I listened to C&D today and I'm always surprised at how much better it is than I'd remembered. With that said it isn't my favorite P record (I wish he hadn't put vocals over almost every moment of it so the grit of the music wasn't softened for one) but I'm going to listen many more times to make sure I know where it falls in his discography for me.

Where are you all at on this album? For anyone who really loves it what aspects do you like most about it?
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Reply #1 posted 11/07/23 6:47pm

DotsofU

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I am a huge fan of Chaos & Disorder:

Dig U Better Dead is one of those hidden gems that I wish people would discover

(But how can they when they have to weed thru ten million crap D&P outtakes.. but anyway)

Some guitar solos on the album is astonishing : Same December for example

It is definitely P in 'I don't give a shit mode' and I love it

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Reply #2 posted 11/07/23 10:50pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

i love it.

no pretensions, just a quick and fun guitar record. and a better guitar showcase than TGE too.

and he still manages to put something like last december, which has a lot going on in terms of the songwriting, on there.

i like it as he didnt overthink it compared to emancipation, even though theres quite a few sounds that they have in common.

only track i think shouldnt be there is i rock therefore i am.

dig u better dead probably could have been on come, but its such a good track, i dont mind.

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Reply #3 posted 11/08/23 6:54am

nayroo2002

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"Dig U Better Dead" is a response to people who didn't understand the name change.

Could have been a better single choice instead of "Dinner With Delores" (a 'dig' at WB), imho.

My ringtone is the intro from "Zanallee" lol

"Whatever skin we're in
we all need 2 b friends"
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Reply #4 posted 11/08/23 7:35am

RJOrion

the Chaos & Disorder CD is a fancy coaster for frosty beverages.
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Reply #5 posted 11/08/23 7:40am

JoeyCococo

Always loved a lot of this album.....he just is so raw.

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Reply #6 posted 11/08/23 7:58am

Marrk

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I like it all apart from 'I Rock, Therefore I Am'. The first four tracks I find especially good.

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Reply #7 posted 11/08/23 8:50am

SpookyPurple

I've always enjoyed this album even if there are things I wish it didn't have. Namely, all of the sound effects. Really wish the title track and Zannalee didn't have those cheesy FX. Or the record scratching. Love I Like It There, Dinner With Delores, Had U, I Will. I Rock... is terrible. If there's an extended Had U out there in the world, I'd love to hear it. Still has cheesy sheen about it all, though. That's why The Undertaker is so timeless to me - no added fluff.

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Reply #8 posted 11/08/23 8:51am

lurker316

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I actually kind of like I Rock Therefore I Am. I may be the only person in the world who feels this way.



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Reply #9 posted 11/08/23 10:54am

Se7en

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This one came out when I had a lot going on in my life . . .

Had just broken up with a long-term girlfriend and was dating quite a bit that spring/summer. My job was relocated, which introduced me to a lot of new people. And, not long after I started a new job (and new career). All with C&D as the soundtrack -- until Emancipation came out not long after!

About the album itself: I'm not crazy about the "contractual obligation" title, but it's somewhat valid. I feel that these tracks could've been better for another Crystal Ball compilation, and maybe not a proper album.

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Reply #10 posted 11/08/23 11:01am

Se7en

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26ten said:

I listened to C&D today and I'm always surprised at how much better it is than I'd remembered. With that said it isn't my favorite P record (I wish he hadn't put vocals over almost every moment of it so the grit of the music wasn't softened for one) but I'm going to listen many more times to make sure I know where it falls in his discography for me. Where are you all at on this album? For anyone who really loves it what aspects do you like most about it?


For me, this one ends the 1978-1995 streak of almost continuous genius. Some ups and downs, but more or less consistent level of output.

With Chaos & Disorder onward, it was a mixed bag. It was his first album I would not ever consider as a masterpiece. I don't think any of the albums onward were as good as what came before.

Chaos & Disorder (for me) falls somewhere near the bottom of his overall output, but it's above NPS, the NPGMC stuff, Planet Earth and HNR Phase 1 for example. He has so much output, something invariably has to be near the bottom.

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Reply #11 posted 11/08/23 11:07am

26ten

Se7en said:



26ten said:


I listened to C&D today and I'm always surprised at how much better it is than I'd remembered. With that said it isn't my favorite P record (I wish he hadn't put vocals over almost every moment of it so the grit of the music wasn't softened for one) but I'm going to listen many more times to make sure I know where it falls in his discography for me. Where are you all at on this album? For anyone who really loves it what aspects do you like most about it?


For me, this one ends the 1978-1995 streak of almost continuous genius. Some ups and downs, but more or less consistent level of output.

With Chaos & Disorder onward, it was a mixed bag. It was his first album I would not ever consider as a masterpiece. I don't think any of the albums onward were as good as what came before.

Chaos & Disorder (for me) falls somewhere near the bottom of his overall output, but it's above NPS, the NPGMC stuff, Planet Earth and HNR Phase 1 for example. He has so much output, something invariably has to be near the bottom.



I can absolutely get that, especially with C+D.
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Reply #12 posted 11/08/23 11:44am

SpookyPurple

Listening to this again, I wish he would've gone back to the production sound of Love Symbol. Same for TGE.

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Reply #13 posted 11/08/23 12:18pm

26ten

SpookyPurple said:

Listening to this again, I wish he would've gone back to the production sound of Love Symbol. Same for TGE.



Strong agree on that too. The production style on TGE especially hurts it. When I first got it it was a massive block to liking it. I feel for a lot of Prince music the issues people have are actually the production styles because they get so much more standardized from TGE and onward sonically and it makes albums that no longer sound like their own contained universes like in the 80s. I honestly feel his writing was pretty incredible every time but the overall *sounds* used obscure it.

For a guy who could make some really unusual synthetic choices sound absolutely badass eventually he just didn't seem to focus on that later in the same way. I feel like he would never have "dropped off" commercially/critically in the public mind had he done that.

I still really like albums from those eras but it definitely was not an immediate love like his "classic run".
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Reply #14 posted 11/08/23 12:39pm

SoulAlive

It's an album that I never really revisit,but I do like the song "Dinner With Delores".It's a charming little song with some great lyrics.

damn Delores,pick another subject,please

introduce the carpet to something other than your knees

lol

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Reply #15 posted 11/08/23 12:57pm

claudemorton

I've always liked it, live some of those tracks are awesome. One of my favorite parts is the title song, and all the fun little samples and use of lyrics that I dug. The first three tracks and the last four tracks are great, Zannalee is also a lot of fun, especially live. The Same December, Right the Wrong, and I Rock, Therefore I Am, I could never hear again and be 100% okay with that.

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Reply #16 posted 11/08/23 1:15pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

SpookyPurple said:

I've always enjoyed this album even if there are things I wish it didn't have. Namely, all of the sound effects. Really wish the title track and Zannalee didn't have those cheesy FX. Or the record scratching. Love I Like It There, Dinner With Delores, Had U, I Will. I Rock... is terrible. If there's an extended Had U out there in the world, I'd love to hear it. Still has cheesy sheen about it all, though. That's why The Undertaker is so timeless to me - no added fluff.



There is a sheen but that's just the npg sound isn't it? Think if it like less minimal, more full bodied. Minimal prince basically died in 89 more or less. This album is less ambitious than gold or emancipation but I think that's in its favour. And the production and execution is simpler and lower stakes but that's why I think it's better and more fun than those. It's prince letting loose, not trying so hard.
[Edited 11/8/23 13:22pm]
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Reply #17 posted 11/08/23 4:45pm

thisisreece

It’s not a great album, but I enjoy it. I think the production really hampers it. It’s meant to be a rough and have a no fucks given attitude but it’s packed with million sound effects and overdubs. I think if it had been recorded live with New Power Trio with a similar production to The Undertaker (and maybe swapped out I Rock, Therefore I Am for Calhoun Square or What’s My Name or some such song) we would all be talking about what a minor classic it is.

As it stands, I think Dinner with Delores and I Will are the standouts, the latter being utterly gorgeous. The rocks songs have too much extra baggage to really work, though they’re all great live.
[Edited 11/8/23 16:45pm]
Hundalasiliah!
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Reply #18 posted 11/08/23 5:17pm

26ten

thisisreece said:

It’s not a great album, but I enjoy it. I think the production really hampers it. It’s meant to be a rough and have a no fucks given attitude but it’s packed with million sound effects and overdubs. I think if it had been recorded live with New Power Trio with a similar production to The Undertaker (and maybe swapped out I Rock, Therefore I Am for Calhoun Square or What’s My Name or some such song) we would all be talking about what a minor classic it is.

As it stands, I think Dinner with Delores and I Will are the standouts, the latter being utterly gorgeous. The rocks songs have too much extra baggage to really work, though they’re all great live.
[Edited 11/8/23 16:45pm]


Yeah - he had a thing about drowning his tracks in a million layers in a way that really distracted from and hurt the quality in many cases. It's a total 180 from the minimalist styles of the 80s, which worked astoundingly well. I wonder why he changed his approach so radically and consistently. For Love Symbol it totally works, and IMO on Emancipation too, but it's so strange that he didn't go minimalist later on sometimes when it seemed to be such an effective way to get his vision to his audience.
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Reply #19 posted 11/08/23 5:34pm

SpookyPurple

26ten said:

thisisreece said:
It’s not a great album, but I enjoy it. I think the production really hampers it. It’s meant to be a rough and have a no fucks given attitude but it’s packed with million sound effects and overdubs. I think if it had been recorded live with New Power Trio with a similar production to The Undertaker (and maybe swapped out I Rock, Therefore I Am for Calhoun Square or What’s My Name or some such song) we would all be talking about what a minor classic it is. As it stands, I think Dinner with Delores and I Will are the standouts, the latter being utterly gorgeous. The rocks songs have too much extra baggage to really work, though they’re all great live. [Edited 11/8/23 16:45pm]
Yeah - he had a thing about drowning his tracks in a million layers in a way that really distracted from and hurt the quality in many cases. It's a total 180 from the minimalist styles of the 80s, which worked astoundingly well. I wonder why he changed his approach so radically and consistently. For Love Symbol it totally works, and IMO on Emancipation too, but it's so strange that he didn't go minimalist later on sometimes when it seemed to be such an effective way to get his vision to his audience.

Calhoun Square is a great example of what some of these tracks could've sounded like. To me, Love Symbol and Emancipation sound totally different because Love Symbol is for the most part real instruments while Emancipation is P doing his one-man-band thing but with cheap sounding production. Songs can be layered and lush and still sound great. P's just didn't past Love Symbol imo.

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Reply #20 posted 11/08/23 5:48pm

SpookyPurple

26ten said:

SpookyPurple said:

Listening to this again, I wish he would've gone back to the production sound of Love Symbol. Same for TGE.

Strong agree on that too. The production style on TGE especially hurts it. When I first got it it was a massive block to liking it. I feel for a lot of Prince music the issues people have are actually the production styles because they get so much more standardized from TGE and onward sonically and it makes albums that no longer sound like their own contained universes like in the 80s. I honestly feel his writing was pretty incredible every time but the overall *sounds* used obscure it. For a guy who could make some really unusual synthetic choices sound absolutely badass eventually he just didn't seem to focus on that later in the same way. I feel like he would never have "dropped off" commercially/critically in the public mind had he done that. I still really like albums from those eras but it definitely was not an immediate love like his "classic run".

It's an interesting topic to discuss why P "dropped off" commercially/critically in the public mind in the 90s. Some of that is just the passage of time and changing musical tastes/styles. It's incredibly hard for an artist to somehow continue to "ride the wave" so to speak. I feel like of all the 80s pop superstars only Madonna was able to maintain pop culture relevancy and popularity through the 90s. Not exactly sure why. Part of it I think is because she didn't oversaturate the market with music - while P certainly did. And part of it I think is because she was willing to work with the hit songwriters and producers of the time (Babyface for Bedtime Stories; Orbit I think it was for Ray of Light) in order to stay current and relevant. P, unfortunately, stayed in his echo chamber.

Sometimes the reasons are mysterious. Why Green Day has somehow remained incredibly popular while other bands of their era haven't, I have no clue!

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Reply #21 posted 11/09/23 1:07am

TrivialPursuit

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It's definitely a favorite for me. I did take the rap out of "I Rock, Therefore I Am," and it's a much better song.

I don't know why folks get down on stuff like "Right The Wrong" or "The Same December." The whole disk slaps.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #22 posted 11/09/23 7:17am

dodger07

Always loved it. The end of my golden era before Emancipation.

It's like a raw-ish counterpart to the heavily produced TGE/Exodus.

Never used to like Dig U Better Dead as it seems so out of place but it's grown on me recently.

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Reply #23 posted 11/09/23 7:20pm

Elephants

Is it just me, but is that a severed penis on the insert?

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Reply #24 posted 11/10/23 7:57am

SPYZFAN1

One of my favorite guitar rock records by him. He said he wanted to match the "quick energy" that Van Halen had when they recorded their first album. A good final "middle finger" album to WB.

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Reply #25 posted 11/10/23 9:05am

Poplife88

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I remember when this came out. I went to my local wrecka stow to pick it up...the same place I'd been going to years. The staff were always pumped about a new Prince album and would be blasting it from the speakers and talking about it...they couldn't care less about this one. When I bought it the guy told me I'd be disappointed... neutral It was a depressing moment. I played on the way home and LOVED it. I went back a week or so later and told the dude he was wrong and he was like, uh, ok, and looked at me like I was crazy. lol

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Reply #26 posted 11/10/23 3:02pm

Mackopolis44

I adore this album. It's raw, real and I don't care that it may or may not be a contract fulfilling album.

I have always loved it and felt an affinity with it after hearing some of the tracks live during the Ultimate Live Experience tour in Sheffield. I swear I remember the performance of The Same December although this may be wishful revisionist thinking 😂🤣😂😎✌️🎸
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Reply #27 posted 11/10/23 4:39pm

TrivialPursuit

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Elephants said:

Is it just me, but is that a severed penis on the insert?


It's you. It's way too weird and large to be a penis. Whatever it is - it's alarming.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #28 posted 11/10/23 5:14pm

GustavoRibas

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26ten said:

I listened to C&D today and I'm always surprised at how much better it is than I'd remembered. With that said it isn't my favorite P record (I wish he hadn't put vocals over almost every moment of it so the grit of the music wasn't softened for one) but I'm going to listen many more times to make sure I know where it falls in his discography for me. Where are you all at on this album? For anyone who really loves it what aspects do you like most about it?

.

.

- Always loved it. Only think that ´Dig U better dead´ and ´I rock therefore I am´ are kind of out of place in a rock album, but it´s Prince being versatile. As a rock album, I like it a lot more than Plectrum Electrum

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Reply #29 posted 11/11/23 4:13am

FunkJam

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Like it much better than I did originally. Everything is listenable, and there are some gems.

Dinner With Delores is very nice. Very smooth.
Zannalee is one of his most fun songs, and one of his better ones. Sick guitar tone.
And this will sound crazy to most of you, but I think Right the Wrong is probably top 5 Prince. Favourite horn arrangement of all time.

"Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system" - Bruce Lee
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