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Thread started 10/30/23 8:27am

lustmealways

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Diamonds and Love: What Do We Know?

This topic is deserving of a more knowledgable and passionate analysis than I'm willing to give it here. Make no mistake, I'm gonna tell it to you and I'm gonna tell it to you straight.

I'll admit, I lambasted this idea. I was the first to begin a barage of org posts, weaving in and out of Bloody Mouth jokes, effectively shit talking Howe and Co. for even considering, NAY, entertaining, NAY, assembling such a monstrosity. Two albums, one of them much better than the other, two sides of the same coin... a similar cast of players, the same sound taken to two extremes. One embodying lame commercialism in a way that sometimes worked, the other a masterpiece orgy of ridiculous storyline, inventive sounds, the very best of melody and arrangement. To weave these two beasts together like some incestuous love child seemed paramount to total sacrilege.

What if I was wrong, what if we were wrong? The year is 2023, here we are. The Diamonds and Pearls Super Deluxe Edition has come and gone, I personally have little interest in revisiting it after a few listens. In part because the material just isn't incredible and also because so much of the set was either already circulating or had gotten in the past few months prior to release. Yes indeed, with a release so many fans are decreeing as inessential and embarassing, was there something hiding in plain sight this whole time? Some cacophonous masterpiece slowly pittering away in the background... 2021, 2022? Were we none the wiser?

Ladies and gentlemen, yes indeed, thanks to various reports and salacious gossip rags over the past few months we have a clearer vision of what this three headed dog was. Through this understanding, we've also garnered a profound sense of confusion. As is customary in the Prince community, there are 50 different people with 50 different levels of access and they all have 50 different ideas about what exactly was on this set and what exactly was in play during these tumultuous years. Where do we start? Like most things shrouded in confusion, our story begins with the French. A venerable people... enigmatic yet enviable.

SCHKOPI reporting, barring something lost in this cultural exchange of distinctly American information. I quote (in)directly (from Google Translate):

According to our always well-informed sources, the “Diamonds & Love” box set was to contain exactly 61 unreleased tracks from the Vault, spread over 6 CDs ; 35 for “Diamonds And Pearls” and 26 for “The Love Symbol Album”.

Wait one goddamn minute. 35 tracks from Diamonds and Pearls... by my count, we're sitting at 33 with the released D&P SDE. Also cited by Schkopi was this bizarre piece of information:

We also know that “I Hear Your Voice” , “Uh Huh” and an extended version of “Willing And Able” were sidelined for the “Diamonds And Pearls” period, in favor of “Darkside” , the only real inclusion decided by the team currently in charge.

Ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't take a mathematics expert nor rocket scientist to see that these numbers are more or less adding up to what constitutes the complete 3 vault discs of what we got on the D&P SDE. After years of mockery by myself and others, were we bemoaning the very people who were trying to give us more? The very same people who have made some very bad decisions, this is true, but for more material, was it worth being tolerated? Were things looking up here?

As we all know, history is written by the... Victors. What we're left with is a jilted bride standing at the altar, forced to read smug Charles F. Spicer Jr. Esq. tweets and eat shit as Daddy Pop (12 Inches Thick Version) plays in the background.

If you're asking yourself questions, you're not alone. What were these mysterious 26 Love Symbol era tracks left over? These ashes that we can see the charred remains of and yet we never had a chance to meet, familiarize ourselves with, lick inside and out, celebrate and enjoy. The list as follows is incomplete, they're titles we've all seen pop up over the past few weeks, I can only hope some brave soul can fill us in completely on what exactly was mocked up.

LOVE SYMBOL VAULT TRAX?:

- Face 2 Face (Possibly different versions on different configs of the box? I've never been one to hide my feelings...)
- I Wonder (POSSIBLY? Spoken on by Duane Tudahl as an August 1989 track. Circulating clips reveal what can only be described as a quirky synth hook overdubbed on top of this brilliant all-timer melody. Could this be a 1992 overdubbed version?)
- Dreams (Sparse Linn-driven ballad allegedly sampling When 2 R In Love)
- 1k Hugs and Kisses (9 minute runtime)
- Race (Tony M. Lead vocals. In the space I mark rapper, indeed)
- Rave Church Style (re-recorded Rave)
- The Max (Possibly several remixes workshopped for possible inclusion on this box? Speaking of this, anyone else think it's weird that as of earlier this year the estate were running that teaser of All A Share with The Max samples mixed in and yet... only D&P)
- Come (Alternate/early version... "this is the dawning of a new sexual revolution" - HOLY SHIT)
- House In Order (Prince vox...)

Also of note is the purported inclusion of the bombastic 1993 Rex aftershow. This of course all went down the drain.

Which leaves us with more burning questions. We're left with 9 tracks here, several of which I'm not even confident enough to really say they were on a hypothetical "Diamonds and Love" - if there were confirmed to be 26 tracks from Symbol total on the vault discs, what were these other 17? One could do more research and find titles that probably were among the missing 17, but we won't know for sure until we see a tracklist.

Crawling from the wreckage, we're left pondering what if. Shrouded in the air of confusion with just what exactly the plan was with Diamonds and Love. I hope that in time, hopefully very soon, more can be revealed to make it clear what exactly went down between the new estate takeover and the release of D&P SDE.

[Edited 10/30/23 8:45am]

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Reply #1 posted 10/30/23 8:41am

billymeade

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I'll Do Anything tracks?

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Reply #2 posted 10/30/23 10:07am

Landonfunkmonk
ey

I hope they decide to go with The Love Symbol set in the early part of next year. It could be a smaller set, like 1999 with just the two vault discs.

I doubt they will though.
Something BIG Is Coming.
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Reply #3 posted 10/30/23 10:10am

bozojones

I mean, for whatever faults Michael Howe had, it was always clear that he was at least trying to put together something worthwhile for the fans, and mostly succeeded in that regard. I never understood anyone who acted like he was as bad as Spicer and Londell, who couldn't even manage to put a fucking two-track Celebration single out without issues.

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Reply #4 posted 10/30/23 10:35am

psyche2

I feel, and share, the frustration.


One can only hope all that material (and more) is remastered and waiting for a fully devoted box set of the Love Symbol album sometime.


I don't want to moan but I personally think we've been deprived of the best material from that tentative box set.

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Reply #5 posted 10/30/23 11:06am

MIRvmn1

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At first I was sceptical to a combined SDE of D&P/ prince cuz I think every album should have their own set. But I start to think that it's not such a bad idea in some cases. If it means that we're getting more unreleased material, then I will definitely will support it. Especially since we don't know how long we have to wait until the next releases. I hope there will be prince Deluxe (like PR deluxe) and maybe that's the plan since they said it will be big year.
U are now an official member of the New Power Generation
Welcome 2 The Dawn
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Reply #6 posted 10/30/23 11:52am

theblueangel

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I never understood why anyone didn't like this idea. I would KILL for this set right now, and I actually like quite a bit of D&P SDE.... but to think of how many amazing vault tracks we're missing due to this being changed to just D&P, and on top of that, will they ever get released. Likely not anytime soon, with clown show Londell and Spicer.

It's a damn shame.

No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.

Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected.

Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine.
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Reply #7 posted 10/30/23 1:02pm

dodger07

I get why people would be opposed to combining albums for SDE’s but in this case I think it would’ve worked.
.
But saying that if we get a full Symbol SDE, which is rumoured to be happening, I’ll be buzzing. When it’ll be who knows. Will they squeeze it in before PR and make next year ‘a big year’
.
Other possible vault tracks could include:
.
MNIP (unreleased remix)
Sexy MF (unreleased remix)
Son Of Sexy MF (played at Celebration)
Love 2 The 9’s (early version played at Celebration)
However Much U Want
The Continental (remix)
The Sacrifice Of Victor (slightly longer version)
The lost/unreleased segues
The Flow (alternate version)
.
If they use tracks from the era he wrote for others, like they did for SOTT and D&P SDE’s, we could get likes of With This Tear. I’d love that particular song personally.
.
Would it branch out to Goldnigga with early version of Johnny…
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Reply #8 posted 10/30/23 1:54pm

strongoxman1

Player
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Reply #9 posted 10/30/23 2:13pm

rap

bozojones said:

I mean, for whatever faults Michael Howe had, it was always clear that he was at least trying to put together something worthwhile for the fans, and mostly succeeded in that regard. I never understood anyone who acted like he was as bad as Spicer and Londell, who couldn't even manage to put a fucking two-track Celebration single out without issues.

yeahthat yeahthat

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Reply #10 posted 10/30/23 2:19pm

lustmealways

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We saw pictures of the Symbol remastered LP's pressed and ready to go. It's crazy to me all that would go to waste.

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Reply #11 posted 10/30/23 3:00pm

bluegangsta

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I Wonder, The Max and Come are not part of the tracklist.

[Edited 10/30/23 15:17pm]

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #12 posted 10/30/23 3:35pm

FrankieCoco1

bluegangsta said:

I Wonder, The Max and Come are not part of the tracklist.

[Edited 10/30/23 15:17pm]



Duane Tudahl mentions in a comment on his Facebook group about the SDE that "I Wonder,"…will likely be set aside for a release that covers that period (August of 1989)”.

Roll on the Batman SDE, or if there’s a change in direction for SDE, a 1989 one!
There may or may not be something coming!
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Reply #13 posted 10/30/23 3:45pm

kindofblue

Wouldn't most of the Carmen Electra tracks belong to a Symbol era box set? I really have a soft spot for songs like Step To The Mic, Everybody Get On Up and Just A Little Loving with the full live band sound. It would really be nice to get Prince's own versions!

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Reply #14 posted 10/30/23 3:48pm

lustmealways

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bluegangsta said:

I Wonder, The Max and Come are not part of the tracklist.

[Edited 10/30/23 15:17pm]

This makes more sense, thank you.

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Reply #15 posted 10/30/23 4:42pm

FrankieCoco1

.
[Edited 10/30/23 16:43pm]
There may or may not be something coming!
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Reply #16 posted 10/31/23 3:32am

dodger07

kindofblue said:

Wouldn't most of the Carmen Electra tracks belong to a Symbol era box set? I really have a soft spot for songs like Step To The Mic, Everybody Get On Up and Just A Little Loving with the full live band sound. It would really be nice to get Prince's own versions!

Agree. Symbol - Goldnigga - Carmen were a bit of a trilogy.

I'd like P's version of Everybody Get On Up. Good chance it exists after him playing it on Act I tour

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Reply #17 posted 10/31/23 5:13am

Mindbells9

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bluegangsta said:

I Wonder, The Max and Come are not part of the tracklist.

[Edited 10/30/23 15:17pm]



That's strange that The Max isn't part of the track list. I've heard the auctioneer's remix he played a few ago and a snippet of another remix that sounds like the outro that was performed on Arsenio in 1993.
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Reply #18 posted 10/31/23 5:19am

happyshopper

From what I heard they need more vault tracks to complete the Symbol SDE, to have 3 disks like the others.
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Reply #19 posted 10/31/23 7:59am

Ndorphinmachin
a

What album do you most want? The next one. You/we have the D&P SDE, and now attention turns to what's next.

Each album deserves its own place. Bundling albums together is tantamount to saying these aren't really worth it so... Here's 2 for 1.

When they finally get round to releasing the prince SDE, will you look back and say "This is cool but I really wish they'd bundled it with D&P"?
[Edited 10/31/23 8:02am]
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Reply #20 posted 10/31/23 8:14am

Ramzoo

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happyshopper said:

From what I heard they need more vault tracks to complete the Symbol SDE, to have 3 disks like the others.

"1999" had 2....

"Money won't buy U happiness but it'll pay 4 the search."
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Reply #21 posted 10/31/23 8:18am

Ramzoo

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MIRvmn1 said:

At first I was sceptical to a combined SDE of D&P/ prince cuz I think every album should have their own set. But I start to think that it's not such a bad idea in some cases. If it means that we're getting more unreleased material, then I will definitely will support it. Especially since we don't know how long we have to wait until the next releases. I hope there will be prince Deluxe (like PR deluxe) and maybe that's the plan since they said it will be big year.

Can't we say that "SOTT" SDE was a kind of combined "Parade"/"SOTT" ?

"Money won't buy U happiness but it'll pay 4 the search."
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Reply #22 posted 10/31/23 8:41am

happyshopper

Ramzoo said:



happyshopper said:


From what I heard they need more vault tracks to complete the Symbol SDE, to have 3 disks like the others.

"1999" had 2....



True. I guess it depends on what exists, or what they can find, and what they think fits.
The rumours of them wanting to make it 3 disks may not be correct.
.
Any speculation on the live shows for the Symbol SDE?
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Reply #23 posted 10/31/23 8:45am

Marco81

happyshopper said:

Ramzoo said:

"1999" had 2....

True. I guess it depends on what exists, or what they can find, and what they think fits. The rumours of them wanting to make it 3 disks may not be correct. . Any speculation on the live shows for the Symbol SDE?

Hopefully they do the same and release the Act I tour preview at Glam Slam MPLS from February 1993: https://princevault.com/i...ruary_1993

By reading The Vault, it seems like this was also recorded with multiple cameras...

[Edited 10/31/23 8:51am]

[Edited 10/31/23 8:52am]

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Reply #24 posted 10/31/23 8:51am

Ramzoo

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Marco81 said:

happyshopper said:

Ramzoo said: True. I guess it depends on what exists, or what they can find, and what they think fits. The rumours of them wanting to make it 3 disks may not be correct. . Any speculation on the live shows for the Symbol SDE?

Hopefully they do the same and release the Glam Slam show from February 1993: https://princevault.com/i...ruary_1993

Sckopi site mentioned The Rex:

https://princevault.com/index.php?title=01_September_1993-am

"Money won't buy U happiness but it'll pay 4 the search."
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Reply #25 posted 10/31/23 10:00am

Vannormal

Maybe they cut this Diamonds & Loce idea into two SDE sets.

I hope not it's not hte next SDE release.

I hope for a full, big and complete FINAL Purple Rain SDE package,

or maybe even a Parade SDE...

-

Yesterday I've heard a (new leaked?) snippet of 'I Wonder' yesterday with much more synths and guitar...

Same for an unheard leak of a 'Come' version tha has far more wild funky drums and starts with 'This Is the Dawning Of A New Sexual Revolution',

Plus a (leaked?) house version of 'The Max', (with too much talk over it by some guy),

and a poppy promissing snippet of 'A 1,000 Hugs And Kisses'...

All in super bad quality of course. Damn!

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #26 posted 10/31/23 10:49am

Se7en

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I'm not really into combining these two albums, although they are "sister" albums IMO.

I'd be much more open to a Black Album/Lovesexy combo.

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Reply #27 posted 10/31/23 11:47am

happyshopper

Ramzoo said:



Marco81 said:




happyshopper said:


Ramzoo said: True. I guess it depends on what exists, or what they can find, and what they think fits. The rumours of them wanting to make it 3 disks may not be correct. . Any speculation on the live shows for the Symbol SDE?

Hopefully they do the same and release the Glam Slam show from February 1993: https://princevault.com/i...ruary_1993



Sckopi site mentioned The Rex:



https://princevault.com/index.php?title=01_September_1993-am



There’s also the VHS releases that could be given an HD remaster. Bagleys Warehouse (The Sacrifice of Victor) and The Undertaker?
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Reply #28 posted 10/31/23 12:31pm

thesexofit

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Se7en said:

I'm not really into combining these two albums, although they are "sister" albums IMO.

I'd be much more open to a Black Album/Lovesexy combo.

I think Symbol is much more overproduced in general and without Rosie, it does feel different.

To Prince's credit, he didn't try a D+P Part 2. Its a much more agressive album aswell.

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Reply #29 posted 10/31/23 1:41pm

bluegangsta

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happyshopper said:

From what I heard they need more vault tracks to complete the Symbol SDE, to have 3 disks like the others.

There's 25 songs, roughly 1 hour and 52 minutes. And the quality of the tracks are significantly better, compared to the D&P outakes.

[Edited 10/31/23 15:54pm]

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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