antonb said:

My main criticism, is you don’t need the same show on audio and blue ray. Release the full blown show on audio from the tour. Seems a waste to me. You can rip the audio from the blueray at if you want it

True, it could've been another disc filled with outtakes or rehearsals.

RJOrion said:

RJOrion said:

"Open Book" is a MASTERPIECE

Yeah, both Open Book and Get Blue have always been two of my favourite Prince bootleg songs. So nice to hear them with decent audio now.

Ndorphinmachina said:

Whiskas31 said:

I knew Prince was trying to play catch up with New Jack Swing sounds of the 90's, but listening to the vault tracks it seems he had completely lost confidence in his own abilities.

Songs like 'Don't Say You Love Me' and 'Spirit' are just complete generic rip offs of better NJS songs, while some real gems like 'Open Book', 'Pain', 'Something Funky This Way Comes' and 'Get Blue' to name a few were completely passed over to cater for NJS lite stuff such as Jughead and Daddy Pop.

I think this is the only time in Prince's career where he was trying to copy rather than innovate, and some of the more soulful and funky vault stuff would have complemented the better D&P tracks (i.e. the funk soul and blues ones) than the ones trying to follow modern trends. Kind of glad they got this era out the way, as hopefully we can finally get a Parade Deluxe edition.

I'm curious if you feel the same way about Purple Rain? Do you feel he was he ripping off other rock bands/artists? Copying them rather than innovating? I love PR but is it a particularly innovative album? Or ripping off house DJs when he added house music into his styles? Surely every (pop) musician is influenced by what came before them and what's going on at the time. It might be odd if BB King decided to ditch the blues for dubstep. But Prince never subscribed to one style or genre. What is it that defines which styles/genres he could/should play and which he shouldn't?

You make a very good point. I think around the Purple Rain era, Prince was confidently running along side many genres, putting his own spin on them and in some cases, such as When Doves Cry, he was innovating. Some of the production techniques he used on Controversy, 1999 and Purple Rain essentially created the Minneapolis Sound, which was copied by many other artists throughout the 80's and are still used today. You might think that Purple Rain isn't innovative, but that's only because those techniques are commonplace these days.

When it came to the D&P era, he was on the backfoot. NJS was the new big dominant R&B sound. After the relative commercial and critical failure of Graffiti Bridge, Prince wasn't at the forefront anymore. He went the rap route, which is a genre he originally disliked, and pretty much copied the NJS sound without adding to it or innovating on it. That whole awful plastic "Gangsta" persona he created for D&P's was cringeworth at best, as were the songs associated with that persona.

The outtakes pretty much highlight that the NJS and rap inspired songs were the weakest. They were clearly done as a means of Prince staying relevant, when before he was at the forefront. I hope that explains my original point a bit better.

A silly quesion: anybody knows if there is an original "Do Your Dance" version? In SDE there is the KC's Remix we all know, but I never heard of the original mix.

Whiskas31 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Whiskas31 said:

You make a very good point. I think around the Purple Rain era, Prince was confidently running along side many genres, putting his own spin on them and in some cases, such as When Doves Cry, he was innovating. Some of the production techniques he used on Controversy, 1999 and Purple Rain essentially created the Minneapolis Sound, which was copied by many other artists throughout the 80's and are still used today. You might think that Purple Rain isn't innovative, but that's only because those techniques are commonplace these days.

When it came to the D&P era, he was on the backfoot. NJS was the new big dominant R&B sound. After the relative commercial and critical failure of Graffiti Bridge, Prince wasn't at the forefront anymore. He went the rap route, which is a genre he originally disliked, and pretty much copied the NJS sound without adding to it or innovating on it. That whole awful plastic "Gangsta" persona he created for D&P's was cringeworth at best, as were the songs associated with that persona.

The outtakes pretty much highlight that the NJS and rap inspired songs were the weakest. They were clearly done as a means of Prince staying relevant, when before he was at the forefront. I hope that explains my original point a bit better.

Agree. Also the difference is that in these vault songs, he is trying to almost essay these styles, to become anonymous, like a backroom writer producer. Which is fine as he was giving these songs to others. But lustening to him sing it, it looks like he wasnt doing his own take on them, he was trying to sound the same as everyone else. Which is impressive in a sense, that he could apply himself like that. But from princes own records, i expect him putting his own spin on things, not trying to fit in (or not quite doing either as that also happened quite a bit).

But like you already mentioned, the tracks he gave to others are demo's, so obviously he ain't gonna put everything into it like a track for himself. A few sound more "full" than others ("Open book" for example), whilst some are just kinda barren by his standards ("Get blue").

I understand if you had never heard the Martika or EL Debarge track etc...how underwhelming they sound. I already owned the finished tracks by said artists and actually prefer the finished product on a few of them, but thats all they are...demo's for other artists. Never meant for his album.

I must admit I preferred his songs for others back in this era then alot more than his own work. Much lighter and poppy and more fun, but then I love the NJS era in general so Iam biased LOL.

[Edited 11/1/23 9:34am]

Whiskas31 said:

Hi all, this is my 1st post on the forum. Longtime Prince fan who lost touch a bit with new Prince music but have had a resurgence of interest the past couple years and didn’t realize how much I was missing!

Anyway, I’ve finally had a chance to listen to the new content on this D&P Super Deluxe set and here are my thoughts on the vault songs.

These three I already had in my collection but glad to get quality upgrades (like all 3)…...

Pain

Open Book

The Voice

These I have added to my regular playlist….

Trouble - nice song. Would have lend itself well to a live version.

Alice Through the Looking Glass

Hey U - classic catchy Prince rif. I would like even better if the phrase “Hey U” wasn’t repeated so often.

I Pledge Allegiance to Your Love - to me this is the cream of the crop! Beautiful blues/soul tune. It’s definitely a “how did this not make it on an album?” song. A+

and this batch I kind of like but are on the fence whether or not I will add them to my regular playlist……

JoeyCococo said:

JoeyCococo said:

It is hard an unfair to compare D&P vault songs to SOTT’s but, there are some real gems. Who else could have shelved these: Pain, Tender Heart, Open Book, Get Blue, Letter 4 Miles, Standing At the Altar, Pledge Allegience, Yhe Voice, Blood On The Sheets, Last Dance, Martikas Kitchen, and better versions of songs we have Insatiable and interesting takes on songs we know, Horny Pony. Hey You and Trouble are growing on me. I mention them because I had dismissed them before. I think that 90s very distinctive New Hack Swing sound is what bothers me but why should it..it was the sound of that time. Don’t Say You Love me is a perfect example….and it is actually good:)

Standing at the Altar is such a great song, although I think the vault demo sounds a little too sparse. The Margie Cox version on 1-800 New Funk is more complete, and the one I'll always return to.

[Edited 11/2/23 6:06am]

I keep noticing new things every time I listen to the vault tracks...

.

Alice Through The Looking Glass: Prince's "Doop da doo doop" singing from about 20 seconds onwards is a guide for a horn section... and not meant to be there (I'm 99% sure). There's horn parts in Sheila E's live version. Not quite the same, but obviously what was intended to go there.

I wonder if they were ever recorded, or the Estate just didn't notice, or couldn't find the recordings?

[Edited 11/2/23 7:48am]

Listened to all of the vault tracks last night. Aside from the tracks I'd had and liked from old bootlegs and a couple of others like Standing At The Altar and Hey U, I don't think there's much I'll be going back to. Not that they're bad tracks, just super generic and - as others have pointed out - very much of that time period - which is not my fav, personally. Prince definitely wasn't blazing any new trails though I think Cream and Gett Off are absolute classics and I'll always have a soft spot for D&P the song. I want more eccentric Prince as Funky mentioned previously. I'm in the camp of people who still wonder why the Estate chose to make a SDE of this album but I'm glad there are others who are loving it.

thesexofit said:

But like you already mentioned, the tracks he gave to others are demo's, so obviously he ain't gonna put everything into it like a track for himself. A few sound more "full" than others ("Open book" for example), whilst some are just kinda barren by his standards ("Get blue").

I understand if you had never heard the Martika or EL Debarge track etc...how underwhelming they sound. I already owned the finished tracks by said artists and actually prefer the finished product on a few of them, but thats all they are...demo's for other artists. Never meant for his album.

I must admit I preferred his songs for others back in this era then alot more than his own work. Much lighter and poppy and more fun, but then I love the NJS era in general so Iam biased LOL.

Yeah, this doesn't get emphasized enough on discussions:

The "Originals" are always rough demos with rough vocal takes, and the released versions he "gave away" decades ago are the "finished" versions with "finished" elements of Prince's entire production process.

A good example is a track missing from this set: "I Hear Your Voice". A bootleg of Prince's demo exists and it's solid, but the final Patti LaBelle version has those cool guitar licks during the hook that take it to the next level.

It's somewhat of a Catch 22, because a large segment of his fanbase refuses to bother with material he doesn't actually sing on himself, but like you point in, in most cases the versions with him singing are fragmented and spare while the versions without him singing are obviously more in-line with his standards.

I also agree with you the stuff he gave away I prefer to D&P. And I'm torn between being happy fans have finally discovered and appreciate the songs more than they were prior to a week ago--yet severly disappointed that a good portion of fans intentionally ignore the finished versions put out by other artists that have been out for decades.

Like is Prince as a singer the only relevant thing to some? He was a pretty damn solid songwriter, too....

WhisperingDandelions said:

I also agree with you the stuff he gave away I prefer to D&P. And I'm torn between being happy fans have finally discovered and appreciate the songs more than they were prior to a week ago--yet severly disappointed that a good portion of fans intentionally ignore the finished versions put out by other artists that have been out for decades.

Like is Prince as a singer the only relevant thing to some? He was a pretty damn solid songwriter, too....

Good points all. But I think I appreciate the "early drafts" from D&P a little more simply because a lot of the "finished" material of that era was, in my opinion, a bit overbaked -- too much production, too many bells and whistles. By contrast, some of these demos -- which indeed may be lacking in intended, additional elements (the horns on "Alice," for example) -- feel refreshingly spare and uncluttered. "Get Blue" is another that I like for its simplicity.

I don't understand why "5 Women" is not on this set.

They should'v left of "Martika's Kitchen" or "Thunder Ballet".

Farfunknugin said:

Blood on the sheets is P on lead guitar right? Prince vault lists Levi.

It doesn't say lead guitar, it says guitar, and Prince on all instruments except where noted.

Although I doubt Levi is even on this song...?

Sounds all guitar like Prince to me (but i could be wrong, I wasn't there).

[Edited 11/2/23 23:18pm]

Vannormal said:

Farfunknugin said:

Blood on the sheets is P on lead guitar right? Prince vault lists Levi.

It doesn't say lead guitar, it says guitar, and Prince on all instruments except where noted.

Although I doubt Levi is even on this song...?

Sounds all guitar like Prince to me (but i could be wrong, I wasn't there).

[Edited 11/2/23 23:18pm]

I dont know, the intro rhythm doesn't really sound like anything Prince would play. he solo is obviously Prince

Vannormal said:

I don't understand why "5 Women" is not on this set.

They should'v left of "Martika's Kitchen" or "Thunder Ballet".

I guess because it was released already? Just like "Love..Thy Will Be Done", which is one of the
very best tracks written during this era.

But at least we get to include them in our own playlists since we have them in good quality on
other official releases.

Vannormal said:

I don't understand why "5 Women" is not on this set.

They should'v left of "Martika's Kitchen" or "Thunder Ballet".

probbly same reason as Old Friends 4 Sale and She Spoke 2 me are not on it, I would think The Vault OF4S will be just remastered evntually without extras.
(I love Martika's Kitchen by the way and i'm glad to have it released officially)

Vannormal said:

I don't understand why "5 Women" is not on this set.

They should'v left of "Martika's Kitchen" or "Thunder Ballet".

The real T is that they could've put another 4-5 songs on any of the disks. Two of the three vault disks are under an hour, the other is just slightly over.

And "5 Women" is already out. Why re-add it here?

[Edited 11/3/23 10:37am]

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

I don't understand why "5 Women" is not on this set.

They should'v left of "Martika's Kitchen" or "Thunder Ballet".

The real T is that they could've put another 4-5 songs on any of the disks. Two of the three vault disks are under an hour, the other is just slightly over.

And "5 Women" is already out. Why re-add it here?

another version maybe ... or a live version

Vannormal said:

TrivialPursuit said:

The real T is that they could've put another 4-5 songs on any of the disks. Two of the three vault disks are under an hour, the other is just slightly over.

And "5 Women" is already out. Why re-add it here?

another version maybe ... or a live version

.

Mah. There was no Dream Factory or Camille's released songs on Sign 'O' The Times SDE

an alternative version of dream factory should have been on there though.

i mean, if the argument is that already released material wont be on the SDEs, then why include all the single edits, remixes etc? those have already been on the single releases. the fact is that the SDEs purport to be comprehensive, but arent.