is it worth the aggravation...

I am also a huge Oasis/Noel Gallagher fan and I did know Noel and I think Liam too is a big Prince fan. That said, no I don't think Prince was listening to Oasis when he wrote White Mansion.

ReddishBrownOne said:

Oh yes, Prince was a massive Oasis fan. One day, he even re-recorded a legendary 'vault' track as 'Big Tall Wonderwall'. Although on a serious note - Noel Gallagher is, maybe surprisingly to some, a massive Prince fan.

I was just about to say that.

Obviously not.

No, Oasis was not any kind of inspiration. The music is nothing like Oasis. The simple rhymes indicate the character in the story living the dream life in an idyllic luxury lifestyle symbolised by the classic 'white mansion' I really don't like White Mansion and am surprised and disappointed when it gets notice, but prejudice aside, I know enough to see that this has no Oasis links whatsoever. I understand Noel admired Prince for his talent and song writing. I don't think Prince would have cared for Oasis as he would have judged them as too basic and scruffy. If he would have given Noel in particular a chance he may have liked some of his work. But I think Prince was his own man and made up his mind pretty quick if he was gonna like someone musically. I mean give or take a few moments, it feels like all of America didn't really like Oasis that much comparatively.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince always paid attention to what was popular Oasis first album sold a million in.the states The second album sold 4 million in the states Id imagine he was aware of oasis...

Which is a completely different statement to assuming Prince copyied Oasis' style in White Mansion.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Who said anything about COPYING?

Did you see the original post and the title?

Also, please don't edit what I said to make it say something else: There is huge difference between copying a song and copying a style.

again, who said COPYING?

not i.

its just a musician being inspired by another musician, thats all.

copying would mean something much more obvious.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

again, who said COPYING?

not i.

its just a musician being inspired by another musician, thats all.

copying would mean something much more obvious.

You just did with "inspired" - Inspired to do what? You imagine (unconvincingly) that he changed his music to be more like Oasis.

The reason it is unconvincing is that even you cannot stand by your claim of influenced enough to copy some aspect of Oasis' style and have pulled back to something so much less.

[Edited 7/8/23 18:29pm]

IanRG said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

again, who said COPYING?

not i.

its just a musician being inspired by another musician, thats all.

copying would mean something much more obvious.

You just did with "inspired" - Inspired to do what? You imagine (unconvincingly) that he changed his music to be more like Oasis.

The reason it is unconvincing is that even you cannot stand by your claim of influenced enough to copy some aspect of Oasis' style and have pulled back to something so much less.

[Edited 7/8/23 18:29pm]

He's not talking about lifting guitar chords from "Wonderwall" though, just stretching some vocal consonants. A subtle/light influence. A slight vocal quirk influence.

This thread seemed ridiculous to me at first, too... Just focus on the stretching of notes on the vocal delivery, not the notes themselves.

WhisperingDandelions said:

IanRG said:

You just did with "inspired" - Inspired to do what? You imagine (unconvincingly) that he changed his music to be more like Oasis.

The reason it is unconvincing is that even you cannot stand by your claim of influenced enough to copy some aspect of Oasis' style and have pulled back to something so much less.

[Edited 7/8/23 18:29pm]

He's not talking about lifting guitar chords from "Wonderwall" though, just stretching some vocal consonants. A subtle/light influence. A slight vocal quirk influence.

This thread seemed ridiculous to me at first, too... Just focus on the stretching of notes on the vocal delivery, not the notes themselves.

This I can agree with.

No one in this thread ever said Prince copied guitar cords from some overrated song. However, they are saying Prince copied stretching some vocal consonants. Now I have to imagine that Prince decided to stretch completely different chords and note sequences to subtly mimic Oasis but only so long as you only focus on that these completely different chords and notes are stretched.

Have you noticed that every Prince song since Wonderwall used the same western octave structures as Wonderwall? And we have accept that this is just coincidence!

i did not say prince lifted great chunks of champagne supernova or roll with it or anything like that. or that he affected a mancunian accent in white mansion (lol). i just said that it sounded like prince might have been listening to some oasis around the time he wrote white mansion cos of some small similarity between a certain aspect of liam's singing and the way prince sings on this song, which to my mind, he has not used on other songs. i know subtlety of language is not your strongpoint, but this is not COPYING, it is not MIMICRY, it is what happens with a lot of music, where an artist incorporates something from one artist and makes it part of their work. it is not controversial to suggest this might have happened.

if you dont hear it, that is fine, it was an observation, a suggestion, a wondering. its what people who actively listen to music do.

its a subtle thing, not apparent, so hey, its fine if you dont hear that, or consider that a possibility (god knows there are a lot of prince fans hate the idea that prince might have heard something in someone elses song that he absorbed), BUT the slightly simplistic rhyming/melody in the song IS unique in terms of princes music. LOL @ the idea that to take influence from someone, you must be utterly faithful to not just how a note is sung, but the actual note itself. as if music is mathematics, and has to take a logical path.

[Edited 7/9/23 13:33pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Am3121 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i did not say prince lifted great chunks of champagne supernova or roll with it or anything like that. or that he affected a mancunian accent in white mansion (lol). i just said that it sounded like prince might have been listening to some oasis around the time he wrote white mansion cos of some small similarity between a certain aspect of liam's singing and the way prince sings on this song, which to my mind, he has not used on other songs. i know subtlety of language is not your strongpoint, but this is not COPYING, it is not MIMICRY, it is what happens with a lot of music, where an artist incorporates something from one artist and makes it part of their work. it is not controversial to suggest this might have happened.

if you dont hear it, that is fine, it was an observation, a suggestion, a wondering. its what people who actively listen to music do.

its a subtle thing, not apparent, so hey, its fine if you dont hear that, or consider that a possibility (god knows there are a lot of prince fans hate the idea that prince might have heard something in someone elses song that he absorbed), BUT the slightly simplistic rhyming/melody in the song IS unique in terms of princes music. LOL @ the idea that to take influence from someone, you must be utterly faithful to not just how a note is sung, but the actual note itself. as if music is mathematics, and has to take a logical path.

[Edited 7/9/23 13:33pm]

I understand what you mean.Some folks here like to break balls Not copying but you can say Prince was inspired by a song he heard and you can tell by listening to it For instance prince himself said he had seen George Clinton in concert so afterward he went and recorded "erotic city"

It is not about breaking balls - the link is just simply "not apparent". funkybabyandthebabysitters often posts things like this. When inevitably people don't agree with the point he is arguing, the argument switches to retreats. The irony here is I actually said "subtle mimicry" and the counterargument was "it is not MIMICRY" ... "it is a a subtle thing". And what is that thing? "an artist incorporates something from one artist and makes it part of their work". This incorporated thing is a subtle mimicry that forms part of the artist's work - and that part can be small, ie subtle. There is no lack of understanding of the subtlety in language on my part - I don't have edit out words like "subtle" from "subtle mimicry" to pretend the other person yelled MIMICRY just to try to break that other person's balls. No one was ever confused enough to think the OP was saying "Prince lifted great chunks of" crap parts of songs from Oasis.

The difference between something others cannot hear in an argument that is now reduced down to a not apparent or an almost imperceptible possible adoption of a small part of another person's style and when Prince was actually influenced by others is shown in your response - "Prince said himself". There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it. The song is not the first time Prince has done a slightly simplistic rhyme or melody - It is not unique. Think about it: the argument the OP is failing to make is that the "something" is not apparent and has virtually no impact on the song to the point that most won't even hear it but this incorporated something makes the song stand out as unique.

[Edited 7/9/23 16:57pm]

IanRG said:

Am3121 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: I understand what you mean.Some folks here like to break balls Not copying but you can say Prince was inspired by a song he heard and you can tell by listening to it For instance prince himself said he had seen George Clinton in concert so afterward he went and recorded "erotic city"

It is not about breaking balls - the link is just simply "not apparent". funkybabyandthebabysitters often posts things like this. When inevitably people don't agree with the point he is arguing, the argument switches to retreats. The irony here is I actually said "subtle mimicry" and the counterargument was "it is not MIMICRY" ... "it is a a subtle thing". And what is that thing? "an artist incorporates something from one artist and makes it part of their work". This incorporated thing is a subtle mimicry that forms part of the artist's work - and that part can be small, ie subtle. There is no lack of understanding of the subtlety in language on my part - I don't have edit out words like "subtle" from "subtle mimicry" to pretend the other person yelled MIMICRY just to try to break that other person's balls. No one was ever confused enough to think the OP was saying "Prince lifted great chunks of" crap parts of songs from Oasis.

The difference between something others cannot hear in an argument that is now reduced down to a not apparent or an almost imperceptible possible adoption of a small part of another person's style and when Prince was actually influenced by others is shown in your response - "Prince said himself". There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it. The song is not the first time Prince has done a slightly simplistic rhyme or melody - It is not unique. Think about it: the argument the OP is failing to make is that the "something" is not apparent and has virtually no impact on the song to the point that most won't even hear it but this incorporated something makes the song stand out as unique.

[Edited 7/9/23 16:57pm]

you are officially the most pedantic, literal-minded, tin-eared person ever to post on this board.

i salute you.

[Edited 7/11/23 12:16pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

IanRG said:

It is not about breaking balls - the link is just simply "not apparent". funkybabyandthebabysitters often posts things like this. When inevitably people don't agree with the point he is arguing, the argument switches to retreats. The irony here is I actually said "subtle mimicry" and the counterargument was "it is not MIMICRY" ... "it is a a subtle thing". And what is that thing? "an artist incorporates something from one artist and makes it part of their work". This incorporated thing is a subtle mimicry that forms part of the artist's work - and that part can be small, ie subtle. There is no lack of understanding of the subtlety in language on my part - I don't have edit out words like "subtle" from "subtle mimicry" to pretend the other person yelled MIMICRY just to try to break that other person's balls. No one was ever confused enough to think the OP was saying "Prince lifted great chunks of" crap parts of songs from Oasis.

The difference between something others cannot hear in an argument that is now reduced down to a not apparent or an almost imperceptible possible adoption of a small part of another person's style and when Prince was actually influenced by others is shown in your response - "Prince said himself". There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it. The song is not the first time Prince has done a slightly simplistic rhyme or melody - It is not unique. Think about it: the argument the OP is failing to make is that the "something" is not apparent and has virtually no impact on the song to the point that most won't even hear it but this incorporated something makes the song stand out as unique.

[Edited 7/9/23 16:57pm]

you are officially the most pedantic, literal-minded, tin-eared person ever to post on this board.

i salute you.

[Edited 7/11/23 12:16pm]

Please note it is you who has made this a personal attack once again as soon as you realised that you are not getting people agreeing with your silly claim (and the proof of this is you have RJOrion once again piggybacking on your attack).

Also no one, not even RJOrion, has come out and agreed with you- His answer before he got to join with you in your personal attacks was "No".

As ever, I will address the topic instead: There is no indication or support that Prince was inspired to copy or mimic or rip off Oasis's inability to sing properly. To people without tin ears the singing style in the White mansion is not even similar.

For the actual pedants - When I say copy, mimic or rip off, I don't mean great chunks, accents, guitar riffs, or anything else you want to use to change what I said to somehow make your claim seem valid to you - There is nothing in the definition of these words that means the influence or inspiration of one artist on another cannot by subtle, barely perceptible, or just a brief nod to the first artist. Unfortunately for you, the Oasis connection is simply not apparent in White Mansion, no matter how much this upsets you. To me every artist with no influence from those former flash in the pan new Beatles wannabes has the inside running and will look like a blur as they move rapidly past the messes formerly known as Oasis.

[Edited 7/11/23 21:46pm]

so you might dislike the idea, but there are many bands (eg arctic monkeys, but do they literally sound like oasis? well no) and singers inspired by oasis. i imagine you wouldnt hear this though because you seem to require stated evidence from the artist clearly stating 'yes i did in fact listen to ___ and that is reflected in my song ____' which rarely actually happens.

prince could play a hendrix-referencing solo but you would be there saying 'but i did not read an interview where prince admitted this was the case, therefore i refuse to consider this as a possibility... besides, he himself always said he was more into santana'

i could tell you that the song art official cage was surely influenced by daft punks random access memories in some form but you would no doubt be there to tell me that 'no, prince was making music in the 70s, at the height of disco, he did not need to hear daft punk referencing that period to make music in the 2010s that bore some traces of that era'

i dont think prince ever said that dangelo's voodoo was ever an influence on the rainbow children for example, but to me, its pretty obvious he took some cues from that album, despite TRC not actually sounding at all like voodoo.

you are someone who wants it all laid out for you in black and white. you want it clear as day, like a puffy daddy sample circa the late 90s, as anything other than the most literal signposting, you dont seem able to compute.

[Edited 7/13/23 14:47pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

there are many bands and singers inspired by oasis. but you wouldnt hear them because you require stated evidence from the artist clearly stating 'yes i did in fact listen to ___ and that is reflected in my song ____' which rarely actually happens.

prince could play a solo clearly hendrix-referencing but you would be there saying 'but i did not read an interview where prince admitted this was the case, therefore i refuse to consider this as a possibility... besides, he himself always said he was more into santana' (never mind the fact that prince had many legitimate reasons to distance himself from hendrix comparisons, whether or not his guitar playing DID owe some debt to him)

i could tell you that the song art official cage was surely influenced by daft punks random access memories in some form but you would no doubt be there to tell me that 'no, prince was making music in the 70s, he did not need to hear daft punk referencing that period to make music in the 2010s that bore some traces of that period'

i dont think prince ever said that dangelo's voodoo was ever an influence on the rainbow children for example, but to me, its pretty obvious he took some cues from that album, despite TRC not actually sounding at all like voodoo.

you are someone who wants it all laid out for you in black and white. you want it clear as day, like a puffy daddy sample circa the late 90s, as anything other than the most literal signposting, you dont seem able to compute.

The thread is over and once again, your point is not made. You are now just making up assumptions and leaps to cover your ass. These are lies and fabrications that do not reflect what I think or what I have said.

Obviously Prince was influenced by Jimi, Santana and artists that started performing after Prince started. Just as obviously, Oasis was NEVER one of these influences. All you are doing is getting confused with a reply I made to someone else. It was their example of influence that relied on Prince saying he was influenced by George Clinton - All I pointed out was that no one (other than you decades later) has ever said Prince was influenced by Oasis. What I said was:

"There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it."

Against this many, many people have said Prince was influenced by George, Jimi, Santana, and many others and I agree even if Prince did not say it. You really need to be able to understand more than one sentence at a time. You lack of use of capitals at the beginnings of sentences now makes perfect sense.

That there were briefly a bunch of UK Oasis wannabes when they were big there is irrelevant to the conversation. Prince was not some 1990 British school boy who could not look past the image to the lack of musical depth beyond.

listen to the way each line in the verse ends melodically, the added emphasis on each last word of each line, the length of the last note in each line of the verses, as well as a kind of whininess in the melody as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HqpFoHv6qg

now, consider how something similiar happens in white mansion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us55oK1YgS8

if you dont hear it, thats fine, i like to join the dots when it comes to music, i get the sense you cant do that without obvious connections being made for you.

IanRG said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

there are many bands and singers inspired by oasis. but you wouldnt hear them because you require stated evidence from the artist clearly stating 'yes i did in fact listen to ___ and that is reflected in my song ____' which rarely actually happens.

prince could play a solo clearly hendrix-referencing but you would be there saying 'but i did not read an interview where prince admitted this was the case, therefore i refuse to consider this as a possibility... besides, he himself always said he was more into santana' (never mind the fact that prince had many legitimate reasons to distance himself from hendrix comparisons, whether or not his guitar playing DID owe some debt to him)

i could tell you that the song art official cage was surely influenced by daft punks random access memories in some form but you would no doubt be there to tell me that 'no, prince was making music in the 70s, he did not need to hear daft punk referencing that period to make music in the 2010s that bore some traces of that period'

i dont think prince ever said that dangelo's voodoo was ever an influence on the rainbow children for example, but to me, its pretty obvious he took some cues from that album, despite TRC not actually sounding at all like voodoo.

you are someone who wants it all laid out for you in black and white. you want it clear as day, like a puffy daddy sample circa the late 90s, as anything other than the most literal signposting, you dont seem able to compute.

The thread is over and once again, your point is not made. You are now just making up assumptions and leaps to cover your ass. These are lies and fabrications that do not reflect what I think or what I have said.

Obviously Prince was influenced by Jimi, Santana and artists that started performing after Prince started. Just as obviously, Oasis was NEVER one of these influences. All you are doing is getting confused with a reply I made to someone else. It was their example of influence that relied on Prince saying he was influenced by George Clinton - All I pointed out was that no one (other than you decades later) has ever said Prince was influenced by Oasis. What I said was:

"There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it."

Against this many, many people have said Prince was influenced by George, Jimi, Santana, and many others and I agree even if Prince did not say it. You really need to be able to understand more than one sentence at a time. You lack of use of capitals at the beginnings of sentences now makes perfect sense.

That there were briefly a bunch of UK Oasis wannabes when they were big there is irrelevant to the conversation. Prince was not some 1990 British school boy who could not look past the image to the lack of musical depth beyond.

i really dont care if anyone else has seen it or not.

thats the beauty of the internet.

you can have an opinion of your own not formed by consensus.

try it sometime.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

IanRG said:

The thread is over and once again, your point is not made. You are now just making up assumptions and leaps to cover your ass. These are lies and fabrications that do not reflect what I think or what I have said.

Obviously Prince was influenced by Jimi, Santana and artists that started performing after Prince started. Just as obviously, Oasis was NEVER one of these influences. All you are doing is getting confused with a reply I made to someone else. It was their example of influence that relied on Prince saying he was influenced by George Clinton - All I pointed out was that no one (other than you decades later) has ever said Prince was influenced by Oasis. What I said was:

"There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it."

Against this many, many people have said Prince was influenced by George, Jimi, Santana, and many others and I agree even if Prince did not say it. You really need to be able to understand more than one sentence at a time. You lack of use of capitals at the beginnings of sentences now makes perfect sense.

That there were briefly a bunch of UK Oasis wannabes when they were big there is irrelevant to the conversation. Prince was not some 1990 British school boy who could not look past the image to the lack of musical depth beyond.

i really dont care if anyone else has seen it or not.

thats the beauty of the internet.

you can have an opinion of your own not formed by consensus.

try it sometime.

Another assumption about me instead of an admission that you made shit up that I did not say. My views are not formed by consensus but by analysis of facts and opinions. You really need to learn to engage with people that disagree with you without always making it personal.

Look, you had an idea and ran it up the flagpole to see if anyone shot it down. Everybody either shot it down or ignored it as not worth the effort. But don't look back in anger, you gave it a go.

warning! no capital letters will be used in this post!

"There is no such comment by Prince about Oasis. No one else has seen this link and the imagined link is never repeated in the ears of those who think they hear it."

who cares whether prince made a comment on it or not. i certainly dont. there are many things he never commented on. doesnt mean they dont hold water. once you accept this fact, your life as a prince fan will be improved

honestly, all i read when i see your posts is (warning! personal attacks forthcoming!) a lot of excessive anal retentiveness, petty grievances, and general butt hurtedness.

i suggest you promptly purchase some hemorrhoid cream.