lurker316 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

leecaldon said:

Is this fact or speculation?

You think he just compiled songs and they just happened to come out to 60 minutes exactly? C'mon. Some of those have extended endings or mid-sections that are obviously there for that reason. Clever, but kitchy.

Based on what I've read on how Prince worked in the studio, it seems much more likely to me that songs were edited down from longer running times, rather than being added to to make up the run time.

leecaldon said:

TrivialPursuit said:

You think he just compiled songs and they just happened to come out to 60 minutes exactly? C'mon. Some of those have extended endings or mid-sections that are obviously there for that reason. Clever, but kitchy.

Based on what I've read on how Prince worked in the studio, it seems much more likely to me that songs were edited down from longer running times, rather than being added to to make up the run time.

Actually both, I'd say ... It was just not 60 minutes exactly per disc, it had to be 12 songs each. So obviously he had to spend some time either trimming or adding up bits and pieces to some of the songs to make it all fit.

I'm all up for conceptual shit, but up to this day I just don't get this.

RJOrion said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

leecaldon said:

Based on what I've read on how Prince worked in the studio, it seems much more likely to me that songs were edited down from longer running times, rather than being added to to make up the run time.

Yeah, I wouldn't see that as odd given his penchant for long jams. Either way, it's was gimmicky. But man, some of that shit like "New World" or "Slave" just thudding along, I'm glad they got some edits.

psyche2 said:

leecaldon said:

Based on what I've read on how Prince worked in the studio, it seems much more likely to me that songs were edited down from longer running times, rather than being added to to make up the run time.

Actually both, I'd say ... It was just not 60 minutes exactly per disc, it had to be 12 songs each. So obviously he had to spend some time either trimming or adding up bits and pieces to some of the songs to make it all fit.

I'm all up for conceptual shit, but up to this day I just don't get this.

And some of those have an obvious extension on them. "In This Bed Scream," "White Mansion," "Damned If Do" being bigger examples.

I loved this song at first listen, and still do to this day. Whatever style you'd call that, he nailed it.

TrivialPursuit said:

psyche2 said:

Actually both, I'd say ... It was just not 60 minutes exactly per disc, it had to be 12 songs each. So obviously he had to spend some time either trimming or adding up bits and pieces to some of the songs to make it all fit.

I'm all up for conceptual shit, but up to this day I just don't get this.

And some of those have an obvious extension on them. "In This Bed Scream," "White Mansion," "Damned If Do" being bigger examples.

They still may have been edits though.

does anyone else listen to emancipation and think he often just sounds so... strained?

maybe its cos i imagine how much stress and how strange it must be to part ways with the company you were with all your adult life, then go into a whole new situation, with bigger, new stakes, but also just listening to evn songs like courtin time, it doesnt sound like a guy 'free' and happy, it sounds like someone under pressure. no wonder theres something so 'canned' sounding about this album, thats stopped me from fully loving it, its all so measured, and perfectly done, like nothing could be out of place, which makes it feel quite unspontaneous, which is not what you expect from prince. even the songs where its obv hes trying to sound 'happy' and 'joyous', idk, i dont totally buy it. the album is quite contrived in a way, designed to represent a lot of things, but not totally ringing true.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

The prob is the song is sincere but the production sounds chintzy It also sounds airless But its a cool little song I put it in the same sort of category as delirious [Edited 6/23/23 0:44am]

I agree, I also think of the Delirious when I listen to Courtin time, another that falls into the same category in my opinion is "Jack U off"

TrivialPursuit said:

"Courtin' Time" was one of the very first songs I gravitated toward on the album. Big Band is one of my favorite genres. This song ticked a few boxes.

Prince made an excuse for it when asked, but I see the drum machine as a short-coming in the song. The way we hear a superior version of "Somebody's Somebody" in the live studio mix, "Courtin' Time" deserved a live take on an album that otherwise started his acrylic production era.

All that said, it's still a fun song for me.

"Sleep Around" is a tad long, just sorta bangs along. I took it upon myself, because I can, to edit some of those Emancipation songs down to something more listenable, keeping the energy going and not letting songs get bogged down in lengthy extended sections for the sake of a 60-minute disk. Granted, nothing extensive or harsh, but some things needed some fat trimmed.

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It´s interesting how people are different. I love big bands too, and that´s why I enjoyed a lot both ´Courtin Time´ and ´Sleep Around´ (that could have been even longer).

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On the other hand, one of the reasons I am a Prince fan is because I love the way he adds some jams on a pop song. Something that Michael Jackson or George Michael never did.

Always loved it. The only downside is the Emancipation-era production, otherwise it's a standout of the album. Another one that always gets maligned is 'We Gets Up', been a fan of that since day 1, it has a off the rails Lovesexy vibe to it.

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There aren't many songs on Emancipation that wouldn't be improved by not having that sterile production. The upbeat numbers need a bit of grit and grime, the humanity of the slower numbers often gets lost because of the sheen that flattens everything on the album aurally. The only songs that work as is are the polished commercial R&B ballads/grooves like 'Somebody's Somebody'.

WhisperingDandelions said:

Am3121 said:

leecaldon said: Speculation but if just seems obvious to me He wanted to do a 3 disc set with each cd having a exact 1 hour run time

Based on his career it seems more likely every song has a "full" 20 minute version somewhere in Vault Mountain and he decided to edit aiming for 60 minute runtime for once.

His tendency seemed to be to trunicate his jams for the album sequence vs. expand tracks for no reason.

[Edited 6/23/23 5:27am]

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Analog multitrack reels have a running time of 16 minutes at 30ips (and there were only a few occasions when he ran the tape at 15ips speed to double the recording length, when tracking 'America', for example) so generally he was limited to 16 minutes when he recorded to analog.
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(15ips recordings have slightly better bass response but less clear highs, so generally 30ips is better quality of course and it also allowed for more precise razor blade editing.)
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Some of his recordings were digital though ('Kamasutra', for example, was tracked on the DASH machine, an open reel digital Studer D820), 'Emancipation' was probably tracked on ProTools, but in his later years he returned to analog.

Kares said:

Analog multitrack reels have a running time of 16 minutes at 30ips (and there were only a few occasions when he ran the tape at 15ips speed to double the recording length, when tracking 'America', for example) so generally he was limited to 16 minutes when he recorded to analog.

.
(15ips recordings have slightly better bass response but less clear highs, so generally 30ips is better quality of course and it also allowed for more precise razor blade editing.)
.
Some of his recordings were digital though ('Kamasutra', for example, was tracked on the DASH machine, an open reel digital Studer D820), 'Emancipation' was probably tracked on ProTools, but in his later years he returned to analog.

Didn't one of his early 90s albums have something on it somewhere about all digital recording, digital mastering, digital mixing something or other emphasized? or part of the press releases anyway? Wasn't that like an early CD era thing? Maybe it was a different artist...

every time i try to make emancipation a tight single album, i kinda like it, but something never feels right. thats prob because i spent a lot of time listening to it as a whole when i was younger, but i think its also that apart from the remakes, there arent any/many 'big' songs on this thing, its an album thats mostly in the 'deep cut' mode, so it makes sense as a huge album, not really a trim, taut one. the only tracks i would definitely get rid of would be get yo groove on, mr happy, sex in the summer, face down, style, da da da. and maybe we gets up.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

every time i try to make emancipation a tight single album, i kinda like it, but something never feels right. thats prob because i spent a lot of time listening to it as a whole when i was younger, but i think its also that apart from the remakes, there arent any/many 'big' songs on this thing, its an album thats mostly in the 'deep cut' mode, so it makes sense as a huge album, not really a trim, taut one. the only tracks i would definitely get rid of would be get yo groove on, mr happy, sex in the summer, face down, style, da da da. and maybe we gets up.

That would be an interesting thread idea

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To go from that 91-95 NPG live band sound to the plastic-y production on Emancipation was jarring.

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Saying that Courtin Time is an exception with the horns and 'big band' style he went for. And Pvault/Mayte claim it was recorded in 92.

i think there have been some threads about trying to reduce the album down already...

the production is still a bit plasticky, but i liked prince going back to doing albums himself...

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i think there have been some threads about trying to reduce the album down already...

the production is still a bit plasticky, but i liked prince going back to doing albums himself...

I think there have probably been more threads on that than on any other topic Which justifies its 3 hr existence. I used to like configuring shorter versions of it on MiniDisc back in the day. Ask a hundred fans their single or double album versions and you'll get a hundred versions with every song used. So I wouldn't have it any other way. In fact, I'd have loved it to be the 50 track album originally planned.

leecaldon said:

KAJ Productions, y'all!

Am3121 said:

leecaldon said:

Is this fact or speculation?

Speculation but if just seems obvious to me He wanted to do a 3 disc set with each cd having a exact 1 hour run time

...or he edited most of the songs to fit the idea of a three disc/1 hour each ... who will tell...

I made my 9-track 'Ericpation' version with only

Prince and Eric Leeds tracks.

Just love whatever Eric does.

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It's not the best of a compiled edited album, but i did it for fun, just try it:

1 Jam Of The Year

2 Get Yo Groove On

3 We Gets Up

4 I Can't Make U Love Me

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1 Sex In The Summer

2 Soul Sanctuary

3 Emale

4 Dreamin' About U

5 Style

[Edited 8/2/23 7:28am]