RJOrion said:

The Beatles may have been very popular in the mainstream, but black people in the mid to late 60s werent generally The Beatles consumers or knowledgable fans of their music...im sure he may have heard some The Beatles tunes in passing, but sitting down and actively listening to their music and being familiar with their works as a band, is entirely different.

Not exactly true as MANY R&B/Soul singers covered the Beatles in the 60s (Stevie Wonder, Wilson Pickett, Aretha Frankin, Ray Charles, The Temptaions, etc.) with several having legit hit singles/albums as a result. It helps to remember that with limited TV channels + radio stations, music wasn't nearly as segregated as it is today and one was likely to be exposeed to ALL types of music, from rock & roll, to R+B, to show tunes and country.

dave1dmarx said:

RJOrion said:

dave1dmarx said:

Not exactly true as MANY R&B/Soul singers covered the Beatles in the 60s (Stevie Wonder, Wilson Pickett, Aretha Frankin, Ray Charles, The Temptaions, etc.) with several having legit hit singles/albums as a result. It helps to remember that with limited TV channels + radio stations, music wasn't nearly as segregated as it is today and one was likely to be exposeed to ALL types of music, from rock & roll, to R+B, to show tunes and country.

the people you mentioned were all older established artists cashing in on covering The Beatles because they, their labels, and their management, knew their vocal and rhythmic interpretations were more appealing to black audiences than The Beatles versions...the topic was referring to a young teenage Prince, in his formative years, not listening to The Beatles as a youth...the vast majority of black american families didnt have The Beatles albums in their homes, nor did they want them...Prince's parents as jazz musicians clearly didnt expose their children to The Beatles ...nor did my or my black and hispanic friends have The Beatlrs music in their homes...most Black Americans were exposed and encouraged to the Beatles music through white friends and acquaintances later on [Edited 6/23/23 12:56pm]

Not just Black people. My mother played George Benson's The Other side of Abbey Road a lot when I was a child - to then hear the originals is such a step down.

RJOrion said:

the people you mentioned were all older established artists cashing in on covering The Beatles because they, their labels, and their management, knew their vocal and rhythmic interpretations were more appealing to black audiences than The Beatles versions...the topic was referring to a young teenage Prince, in his formative years, not listening to The Beatles as a youth...the vast majority of black american families didnt have The Beatles albums in their homes, nor did they want them...Prince's parents as jazz musicians clearly didnt expose their children to The Beatles ...nor did my or my black and hispanic friends have The Beatlrs music in their homes...most Black Americans were exposed and encouraged to the Beatles music through white friends and acquaintances later on [Edited 6/23/23 12:56pm]

co-sign. Coming from a non-white family nobody ever ever mentioned The Beatles while I was growing up. By the time I got to middle school and high school and people started getting more interested in art and repping their favs I started noticing kids having some Beatles stuff on their binders, getting some "The Beatles" responses when you'd ask what was playing through their headphones.

The division in cultures was most observed when that Danger Mouse The Grey Album dropped while I was in high school. All the hip hop heads had zero clue about any of those samples, while others were fanning out, 'whoah they made a whole song out of that 10 second interlude?"

I wholeheartedly disagree with your "John Lennon is overrated" sentiment, though. The name is, sure. I feel like I knew the name John Lennon wayyy before The Beatles, but my first exposure to The Beatles was buying a used copy of 1 and there's barely any John Lennon on that. "Strawberry Fields Forever".. again, a title that is certainly famous and maybe overplayed as a title, but I have 100% to this date never witnessed it played in public or private unless I'm the one hitting the play button, and that's always listed as his signature track.

Even that lame ass Yesterday movie that had all this buzz around it, there's like no John Lennon songs in there. Mainstream "hits" exposure to Lennon kind of stops with "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" boy band era. It's extra silly in the context of Yesterday because the whole premise is these songs are brand new to modern tastes--no friggin' way a song like "Back in the U.S.S.R." is connecting with modern audiences like they depict in the movie, certainly not over any random Lennon album cut you throw a dart at like a "Happiness Is a Warm Gun," which is still fresh to this day.

McCartney is the overrated one with his sing-songy bicycle-built-for-two how-much-is-that-doggy-in-the-window 1930s throwback kitsch. And then the moments when he "rawks" out like "Helter Skelter"--pure cringe. His rawk yells are like someone taking a dump. I've seen Beatles nerds break it down like showing with charts how McCartney songs use all these different keys and modes and timings and he plays every instrument and all Lennon songs are like the same key and same format--wgaf. One is corny, the other still has some edge. George songs great on the albums but All Things Must Pass probably the most overrated Beatles solo record of all, tons of filler on that.

McCartney never wrote a song even 1/12th as progressive/mellifluous as "#9 Dream". Along with tracks by Lee Hazlewood it literally predates and anticipates shoegaze by a good 3 decades.

[Edited 6/24/23 2:40am]

I think the subtle difference should be 'listened' to the Beatles, and 'heard' them. He had clearly heard them before. But perhaps never actually listened.

leecaldon said:

lol....nonsense.

leecaldon said:

I think the subtle difference should be 'listened' to the Beatles, and 'heard' them. He had clearly heard them before. But perhaps never actually listened.

This is a great way to put it. He would have had to have been shut off from the world to not have heard The Beatles as a kid.

For all we know, his kindergarten class had Beatles singalongs. We'll never know.

But to "listen" as an adult, with an adult's appreciation for the music/craft, that's different.

Se7en said:

leecaldon said:

I think the subtle difference should be 'listened' to the Beatles, and 'heard' them. He had clearly heard them before. But perhaps never actually listened.

This is a great way to put it. He would have had to have been shut off from the world to not have heard The Beatles as a kid.

For all we know, his kindergarten class had Beatles singalongs. We'll never know.

But to "listen" as an adult, with an adult's appreciation for the music/craft, that's different.

Newsflash...........musicians are always "listening"..........

Gooddoctor23 said:

Se7en said:

This is a great way to put it. He would have had to have been shut off from the world to not have heard The Beatles as a kid.

For all we know, his kindergarten class had Beatles singalongs. We'll never know.

But to "listen" as an adult, with an adult's appreciation for the music/craft, that's different.

Newsflash...........musicians are always "listening"..........

But until something stands out and takes their attention, they are dismissing. If you read the quote from Bobby Z then this what he was saying: to paraphrase it was only after Good Morning, Good Mornig grabbed Prince's attention that he stopped and actually listened to whole album. Bobby Z is then quoted as saying "But that moment, I think he realised that The Beatles were more than he thought,” he continued. “He just kind of swallowed them up.”

PJMcGee said:

It's a good thing Prince had Eric, Lisa and Wendy in his life. You'd think he didn't know how to use silverware or tie his shoes until they came along.

Nah, seriously, it's quite possible he was never open to listen to the Beatles and various jazz artists until later in life. Speaking from my own experience, the Beatles weren't even on the radar until my mid to late 20's. Sure I had heard of them but aside from crap like "I Want to Hold Your Hand" I couldn't name you a tune.

Prince was older than me though and the Beatles more relevant when he was coming up so I have to imagine he had more exposure to them than me... that and he was a musician that grew up in a family of musicians.

laytonian said:

PJMcGee said:

Jimmy Jam talked about Prince playing a Chicago guitar solo perfectly. That was a song from 1970, I believe. If Prince was familiar with that, I don't see why The Beatles wouldn't be on his radar.

As I said above. They would be on his radar but not album cuts. Saying bandmates were there the first time he heard The Beatles is BS

It is just an attention grabbing headline because it is NOT what the journo quotes Bobby Z as saying. There is a huge difference between really listening and hearing.

Also Prince hearing a musical act for the first time is completely different from that act being on his radar.