I'm thinking specifically about the middle of the 80s.

When we hear albums like The Family or Apollonia 6 or even Jill Jones a couple of years later, there's a mid-range warmth to them. They're produced, and mixed well.

Then you have something like In Romance 1600, which sounds raw, clanky, brash, like it was recorded in a tin can. Even In The Glamorous Life doesn't sound like that. But things like "Toy Box," "Romance 1600," "Merci..." and "Dear Michaelangelo" just sound like shitty demos.

I don't readily remember other times when the sound (at least in the 80s) had this tinny edge to it. Even something echoy and noisy like "Nine" from Madhouse honed it in by "Ten."

While ATWIAD was recorded well before it was released, even Parade - which had its own moment - sounds sound like that (except maybe "Life Can Be So Nice"). If anything, Parade sounds really muddle down in parts compared to anything else in that period. And Lovesexy has a reputation for being "hot" on the needles, and doesn't come across like 1600.

Is it just me, or does that album stick out like that?

TrivialPursuit said:

The way Romance 1600, for example, sounds is what draws me into him in the first place. There are lots of people that can make something lush and full sound good. But far fewer people who can make something tinny and sparse hit so hard and well. If it's not loud enough, turn it up. Everything is stark, staccato, and in its place, but it's so finely detailed and mixes so well together that what you're hit with is a tiny bullet of pure love to the heart v.s. a shotgun blast of range and warmth.

[Edited 1/31/23 10:47am]

LoveGalore said:

Yes! This sound is also on Can I Play With U? and Dream Factory sort of feels close to it. It feels almost like it was done on purpose because there are songs, like Dream Factory or Hello, from around that same period that sound really harsh on the ear, have dissonant fidelity, and often have a TON of production going on.

For me, when I hear "Hello" or "Dream Factory" it's about some guitar part or a keyboard part that's jarring. Same with something like "Shoo-Bed-Ooo" or "Until U're In My Arms Again." It's just a keyboard part or something squawky that gets me. But on 1600, the whole thing is a mess front to bad. The except being maybe "A Love Bizarre and maybe "Yellow."

("Hello" just sounds like a faster "Mountains" in many ways. That one-chord type of song.)

From listening to many interviews with Susan Rogers, it seems like Pince simply wasn't a perfectionist. He wasn't too picky about how stuff sounded.

So why are some songs recored better than others? For those songs that sound good, it could simply be that his engineer set those up perfectly to being with, so they turn out right. But the song were the recording was slightly off, he let those slide.

Susan uses examples of stuff from Sign o' the Times that sounded muddled to her, but Prince's response was "good enough... leave it."

Honestly most of his 80s production is the way you describe Romance 1600, just to slightly less of a degree. He liked that high treble with the kick drum bass highest in the mix yet the actual basslines themselves lowest. It was "unique".

[Edited 1/31/23 12:51pm]

lurker316 said:

From listening to many interviews with Susan Rogers, it seems like Pince simply wasn't a perfectionist. He wasn't too picky about how stuff sounded.

So why are some songs recored better than others? For those songs that sound good, it could simply be that his engineer set those up perfectly to being with, so they turn out right. But the song were the recording was slightly off, he let those slide.

Susan uses examples of stuff from Sign o' the Times that sounded muddled to her, but Prince's response was "good enough... leave it."

Well, to add to that, it seems Prince did have a "it's fine, leave it" attitude. He did work hard to get the sounds in his head onto tape, but did that always dictate that it was going to be produced, mixed, and mastered to the Nth degree? Nope.

TrivialPursuit said:

lurker316 said:

From listening to many interviews with Susan Rogers, it seems like Pince simply wasn't a perfectionist. He wasn't too picky about how stuff sounded.

So why are some songs recored better than others? For those songs that sound good, it could simply be that his engineer set those up perfectly to being with, so they turn out right. But the song were the recording was slightly off, he let those slide.

Susan uses examples of stuff from Sign o' the Times that sounded muddled to her, but Prince's response was "good enough... leave it."

Well, to add to that, it seems Prince did have a "it's fine, leave it" attitude. He did work hard to get the sounds in his head onto tape, but did that always dictate that it was going to be produced, mixed, and mastered to the Nth degree? Nope.

in most of the 80s anyway. Starting Lovesexy he starts to overproduce/clutter.

lurker316 said:

From listening to many interviews with Susan Rogers, it seems like Pince simply wasn't a perfectionist. He wasn't too picky about how stuff sounded.

So why are some songs recored better than others? For those songs that sound good, it could simply be that his engineer set those up perfectly to being with, so they turn out right. But the song were the recording was slightly off, he let those slide.

Susan uses examples of stuff from Sign o' the Times that sounded muddled to her, but Prince's response was "good enough... leave it."

.

- Yes. That´s probably the reason.

WhisperingDandelions said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Well, to add to that, it seems Prince did have a "it's fine, leave it" attitude. He did work hard to get the sounds in his head onto tape, but did that always dictate that it was going to be produced, mixed, and mastered to the Nth degree? Nope.

in most of the 80s anyway. Starting Lovesexy he starts to overproduce/clutter.

48 tracks is 2x too much.

Yes I agree that Prince wasn't necessarily interested in the finished production, the song/groove always shone through no matter how it waws mixed. If everything sounded as polished as For You, Diamonds & Pearls or the Symbol album, we'd all be bored out of our brains. Graffiti Bridge was an interesting one, he obviously worked harder oon the production side but it also still had some grit.

WhisperingDandelions said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Well, to add to that, it seems Prince did have a "it's fine, leave it" attitude. He did work hard to get the sounds in his head onto tape, but did that always dictate that it was going to be produced, mixed, and mastered to the Nth degree? Nope.

in most of the 80s anyway. Starting Lovesexy he starts to overproduce/clutter.

I don't think Lovesexy was overproduced. It certainly had more production than some of his previous albums, but I don't think it crossed the line into overproduction. It was more sophisticated.

lurker316 said:

From listening to many interviews with Susan Rogers, it seems like Pince simply wasn't a perfectionist. He wasn't too picky about how stuff sounded.

So why are some songs recored better than others? For those songs that sound good, it could simply be that his engineer set those up perfectly to being with, so they turn out right. But the song were the recording was slightly off, he let those slide.

Susan uses examples of stuff from Sign o' the Times that sounded muddled to her, but Prince's response was "good enough... leave it."

Dorothy Parker is a case in point. New console that Prince wouldn't let them finish setting up because he was so eager to record. Susan Rogers could hear immediately that something was off and was sweating bullets, but when Prince heard the finished mix, he said, "This console's nice. It's kind of dull, isn't it?" and it stayed that way.

fishwillbite said:

Yes I agree that Prince wasn't necessarily interested in the finished production, the song/groove always shone through no matter how it waws mixed. If everything sounded as polished as For You, Diamonds & Pearls or the Symbol album, we'd all be bored out of our brains. Graffiti Bridge was an interesting one, he obviously worked harder oon the production side but it also still had some grit.

lurker316 said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

in most of the 80s anyway. Starting Lovesexy he starts to overproduce/clutter.

I don't think Lovesexy was overproduced. It certainly had more production than some of his previous albums, but I don't think it crossed the line into overproduction. It was more sophisticated.

Lovesexy--Smooth as silk, baby!

No

Genesia said:

lurker316 said:

From listening to many interviews with Susan Rogers, it seems like Pince simply wasn't a perfectionist. He wasn't too picky about how stuff sounded.

So why are some songs recored better than others? For those songs that sound good, it could simply be that his engineer set those up perfectly to being with, so they turn out right. But the song were the recording was slightly off, he let those slide.

Susan uses examples of stuff from Sign o' the Times that sounded muddled to her, but Prince's response was "good enough... leave it."

Dorothy Parker is a case in point. New console that Prince wouldn't let them finish setting up because he was so eager to record. Susan Rogers could hear immediately that something was off and was sweating bullets, but when Prince heard the finished mix, he said, "This console's nice. It's kind of dull, isn't it?" and it stayed that way.

He heard the imperfections in the recording there, made his assessment of it, and approved of this accidental development in production. And it is one of his classics. I believe that Prince had a wonderful ear.

Germanegro said:

Genesia said:

Dorothy Parker is a case in point. New console that Prince wouldn't let them finish setting up because he was so eager to record. Susan Rogers could hear immediately that something was off and was sweating bullets, but when Prince heard the finished mix, he said, "This console's nice. It's kind of dull, isn't it?" and it stayed that way.

He heard the imperfections in the recording there, made his assessment of it, and approved of this accidental development in production. And it is one of his classics. I believe that Prince had a wonderful ear.

And a Wonderful Ass. (Sorry.)

Lovesexy is my favorite album of all time and the fact that there's 50 things going on at every second of every song and still it's a cohesive and proclamatory masterpiece is what makes it my fave.

lustmealways said:

lustmealways said:

Lovesexy is my favorite album of all time and the fact that there's 50 things going on at every second of every song and still it's a cohesive and proclamatory masterpiece is what makes it my fave.

It's my favorite album as well. I wholeheartedly agree.

I believe they recorded Romance 1600 while on the PR Tour at different places along the way.

That's probably why it sounds different.

GaryMF said:

I believe they recorded Romance 1600 while on the PR Tour at different places along the way.

That's probably why it sounds different.

Well, ATWIAD was recorded during that period, too (at last a big part of it) and it doesn't sound like that.

Here's some 411 about the Romance 1600 recording, which def covers the time you mentioned:

The album, originally to be titled Toy Box, was recorded in three sets of sessions during days off from the Purple Rain Tour. Dear Michaelangelo, Bedtime Story, Toy Box, Sister Fate and A Love Bizarre were recorded in early January 1985. Romance 1600 and Yellow were recorded in early February 1985.

A first compiling of the album was done at Sunset Sound - Studio 3 in Hollywood, California on 5 February 1985. At this point the album did not yet contain Yellow, which was recorded on 8 February 1985.

Just as examples: "The Ladder" was recorded during a soundcheck. The second half of "Temptation" was recorded in a mobile truck. They don't have the same production as Sheila's record. At least to me. ATWIAD feels more ethereal to me, opposed to Sheila's album that sounds like someone recorded it on a boom box standing just outside a parking garage. ha

TrivialPursuit said:

Basic tracks were recorded on 5 February 1985 at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California (the day after a concert in Memphis, TN, USA, and three days before recording Yellow).

The Prince vault comment seems odd. How would they get to Sunset the day after being in TN?

EDIT: apparently they had some days off to fly back to CA I guess.

.

.

I feel like I've read Sheila say they did the R1600 songs at various studios along the way of the tour .Maybe they took those tracks and "compiled them" at Sunset but I think they were laid down in random places around the country. I could be wrong.

EDIT: Yet, PVault also lists this as the studioes for the album:

Studio(s): Master Sound Studios, Atlanta, GA, USA; Cheshire Sound Studios, Atlanta, GA, USA; Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA; Le Mobile Studios (truck) @ The Summit, Houston, TX, USA; 5th Floor Recording Studio, Cincinnati, OH, USA

[Edited 2/8/23 13:37pm]