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Thread started 09/23/22 8:32pm

paisleyparkgir
l

Gilbert Davidson says Prince was not on drugs when he cancelled the black album.

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Reply #1 posted 09/23/22 10:02pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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Some people can be (seem) very composed on drugs. I'm sure his take is valid, but weren't "inner circle"-types equally resolute in rejection of painkiller allegations at first?

Now his interpretation as to why it was cancelled (regardless of ecstacy vs. no ecstacy, people on drugs still have specific rationale / reasoning for things, the ecstacy story was never the explanation of "why") makes sense.

At that period in his career he was kind of in a mode of "statement" albums, albums with bigger concepts and meaning, His Head of Security Mr. Davidson describes him as being in an odd mood in weeks prior and that night he cancelled The Black Album (again, ectstacy or no ecstacy, completely irrelevant, that moment itself being the catalyst) and shifted to Lovesexy era giving him a renewed energy makes total sense, especially as he was following up a critically lauded bigger statement album of SOTT.


The host does contradict this entire clip at the end summarizing The Black Album was cancelled for being "too dark" (which came from the ecstacy story, no?) after Prince's Head of Security just gave him an eloquent explanation without using the "too dark" sentiment any where in his response. No, not "too dark", "not enough purpose," like Mr. Davidson just. said.

Also it is total Prince to stress on "bigger purpose" for one album/era, then next album? Bam. Batman. You want purpose? How about some repurposed Anna Fantastic song--sorry, "Vicky Vale" songs? Black Album concept/purpose is like Songs in the Key of Life compared to that one.

[Edited 9/23/22 22:22pm]

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Reply #2 posted 09/24/22 6:28am

lurker316

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Hasn't the story always been that Prince tried ecstacy once, had a bad trip, and that lead him to cancel the Black Album?

Trying a drug one time, at some point in the past, doesn't mean a person is "on drugs".

If you try pot once, then a few weeks later quit your job, would it makes sense to say you were on drugs when you quit your job?



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Reply #3 posted 09/24/22 7:39am

nayroo2002

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"Gilbert, Gilbert get the keys, u gonna have 2 drive, i can't, oh lord..."

Part 3 of IWUH makes alot more sense, now!

"Whatever skin Ur in
we all need 2 b friends"
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Reply #4 posted 09/24/22 1:13pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

still a poor decision.

not just for the sheer waste it created (how many tonnes of vinyl were incinerated?).

but because most artists release an easier, 'smaller', less statement-y album after a big blow out like SOTT was.

thats totally normal.

an artist cant release a 'statement' every year.

and in fact, the idea of this being a club album, a black/rnb/funk album actually is statement enough if you ask me.

i think there were other reasons for pulling it like: being worried about seeming out of touch due to the lyrics on dead on it; this music, while great, was just NOT like what was ruling in R&B at the time so the supposed aim of it restoring his place in R&B would have seemed unlikely, etc.

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Reply #5 posted 09/24/22 2:29pm

rap

I don't like the part where Mr. Christopher says, "... Prince did not take recreational drugs we know that um it's important that we not tarnish his legacy ...", as if that's gospel. I am more than capable of independent thought. Thank you very much. Prince tarnished his own legacy.

Is that guy really a journalist?

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Reply #6 posted 09/24/22 2:33pm

paisleyparkgir
l

rap said:

I don't like the part where Mr. Christopher says, "... Prince did not take recreational drugs we know that um it's important that we not tarnish his legacy ...", as if that's gospel. I am more than capable of independent thought. Thank you very much. Prince tarnished his own legacy.

Is that guy really a journalist?

How is his legacy tarnished ?

His legacy was always about the music.

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Reply #7 posted 09/24/22 3:17pm

rap

paisleyparkgirl said:

rap said:

I don't like the part where Mr. Christopher says, "... Prince did not take recreational drugs we know that um it's important that we not tarnish his legacy ...", as if that's gospel. I am more than capable of independent thought. Thank you very much. Prince tarnished his own legacy.

Is that guy really a journalist?

How is his legacy tarnished ?

His legacy was always about the music.

I was not referring to his legacy as a whole, however his addiction to (prescribed) medication and subsequent death are a stain on his legacy, whether we like it or not.

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Reply #8 posted 09/24/22 3:22pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Why a stain?
Thats kinda judgemental.
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Reply #9 posted 09/24/22 4:22pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Fink said he was on ecstasy.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #10 posted 09/24/22 5:10pm

rap

TrivialPursuit said:

Fink said he was on ecstasy.

Sourced from Anthony Kiedis by way of Cat Glover, apparrently.

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Reply #11 posted 09/24/22 5:15pm

LoveGalore

He wasn't on anything when he called in the cancellation.

He was "on something" when he had the epiphany to cancel it.
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Reply #12 posted 09/24/22 6:08pm

paisleyparkgir
l

I don't believe the story that he was tripping around susan rogers, cat and these other folks.

This is the guy who wanted to record his vocals alone because he didn't want ppl to see his vulnerabilities.

Whatever "experiment" he did, was probably done alone.

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Reply #13 posted 09/24/22 7:23pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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rap said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

How is his legacy tarnished ?

His legacy was always about the music.

I was not referring to his legacy as a whole, however his addiction to (prescribed) medication and subsequent death are a stain on his legacy, whether we like it or not.

Only for you over-the-top anti-drug arbiters of morality.

Similar to how a small % of his more overtly religious fans view The Rainbow Children as an abhorrent blemish of his legacy, you all only speak for a mere fraction of a fraction the fanbase, and really your criticisms speak more to you individually as people than Prince as an artist.

It could come out that he slammed heroin before every recording session and it wouldn't change one iota of his artistic legacy... Farley/Belushi speedballs, whatever, if anything that's even more impressive given his productivity.

[Edited 9/24/22 19:49pm]

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Reply #14 posted 09/24/22 7:50pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

rap said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Fink said he was on ecstasy.

Sourced from Anthony Kiedis by way of Cat Glover, apparrently.


No. He told me directly.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #15 posted 09/24/22 10:44pm

rap

TrivialPursuit said:

rap said:

Sourced from Anthony Kiedis by way of Cat Glover, apparrently.


No. He told me directly.

Clever (yet contrived).

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Reply #16 posted 09/24/22 10:51pm

LoveGalore

TrivialPursuit said:



rap said:




TrivialPursuit said:


Fink said he was on ecstasy.




Sourced from Anthony Kiedis by way of Cat Glover, apparrently.




No. He told me directly.



No you dingus. That's who sources the E.
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Reply #17 posted 09/25/22 11:47am

lavendardrumma
chine

Did some E, either with Cat or Ingrid, possibly someone else instead but most likely Ingrid during an impromptu recording session at Paisley after they first met at a club, possibly already on drugs, and he decided to make music about love and positivity. He then either ran to a payphone mid teeth grinding to call Mo or called the label or Leeds the next day or two and made his plea.

Prince was already writing music about love and positivity by then, drugs or no drugs. It reads like a good story, whatever the details, but like there's another real story, and it might just be that Prince didn't have a big epiphany moment at all. There were always rumors it was a planned stunt or that Prince was just ready to make a change.


There were people on the business end of this who love to talk, and no interview has really got the details nailed down. Ingrid tells the story in detail, but it sounds like she's recounting a short story she wrote.

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Reply #18 posted 09/25/22 1:11pm

PennyPurple

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paisleyparkgirl said:

I don't believe the story that he was tripping around susan rogers, cat and these other folks.

This is the guy who wanted to record his vocals alone because he didn't want ppl to see his vulnerabilities.

Whatever "experiment" he did, was probably done alone.

rolleyes Cat got him the E. He took it when he was with Ingrid.

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Reply #19 posted 09/25/22 1:14pm

laytonian

LoveGalore said:

He wasn't on anything when he called in the cancellation. He was "on something" when he had the epiphany to cancel it.


^^^^ this

Cat Glover got the Exstacy from Anthony Keidis. The instructions were that Prince should only take half a pill because he was so small. Somehow, he ended up taking the entire thing.

He called Susan Rogers, after she had quit (tired), and begged her to come back while he was on E.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #20 posted 09/25/22 1:30pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

most people have epiphanies when on something, but then they rethink it when they are sober again. so its interesting that he had an epiphany then stuck to that. maybe he wasnt too good at taking drugs, so thought just cos he had that Big New Thought while on x, it was worth holding onto. or the thought was just one his sober mind agreed with.

LoveGalore said:

He wasn't on anything when he called in the cancellation. He was "on something" when he had the epiphany to cancel it.

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Reply #21 posted 09/25/22 9:56pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

rap said:

TrivialPursuit said:


No. He told me directly.

Clever (yet contrived).


shrug

[Edited 9/25/22 21:56pm]

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #22 posted 09/26/22 12:00am

olb99

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

most people have epiphanies when on something, but then they rethink it when they are sober again.

.

MDMA (the active substance that's supposed to be in ecstasy) has been used in the 60s/70s and is now used again for psychotherapy precisely because it allows you to have insights, to confront your fears, etc. If you're in a suitable context (e.g. with psychotherapists), those insights will have some value (i.e. you won't "rethink" them when you're sober again).

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...chotherapy

.

I don't know what happened in Prince's head at that moment and nobody will ever know, but it's possible that Prince discovered something important while on MDMA/Ecstasy. At the same time and especially if he took too high a dose, it's also very possible that he hated it, because he hates losing control.

[Edited 9/26/22 0:01am]

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Reply #23 posted 09/26/22 12:06am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Interesting. I knew mushrooms were being used therapeutically but not mdma

Weird though that in the intro for lovesexy he cites smack, not ecstasy.
[Edited 9/26/22 0:06am]
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Reply #24 posted 09/26/22 2:47am

LoveGalore

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

most people have epiphanies when on something, but then they rethink it when they are sober again. so its interesting that he had an epiphany then stuck to that. maybe he wasnt too good at taking drugs, so thought just cos he had that Big New Thought while on x, it was worth holding onto. or the thought was just one his sober mind agreed with.





LoveGalore said:


He wasn't on anything when he called in the cancellation. He was "on something" when he had the epiphany to cancel it.




Prince was wacky and weird and superstitious. I believe it.
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Reply #25 posted 09/26/22 6:19am

GustavoRibas

avatar

rap said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

How is his legacy tarnished ?

His legacy was always about the music.

I was not referring to his legacy as a whole, however his addiction to (prescribed) medication and subsequent death are a stain on his legacy, whether we like it or not.

.

Well, I don´t see it this way. Several music icons who are recognized as geniuses were heavy drug users and their music is still revered today. Jimi, Miles, Ray Charles, etc etc etc

.

It´s a ´stain´ only for those who want to see contradictions between his spiritual/healthy lifestyle and drugs.

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Reply #26 posted 09/26/22 1:24pm

LILpoundCAKE

avatar

nayroo2002 said:

"Gilbert, Gilbert get the keys, u gonna have 2 drive, i can't, oh lord..."

Part 3 of IWUH makes alot more sense, now!



"let's see, if I tell Gilert and Jerome to meet me at 11 and I creep at 10,
that'll give me an hour of free reign - more drug - more drugs".


eek


i kid, i kid razz smile

"if U're lookin' 4 dirt look in Ur own back yard / plant some peace flowers in Ur warzone so I can fire my bodyguards."
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Reply #27 posted 09/26/22 1:34pm

heartpeaceshea
rt

This site is obsessed with people doing drugs but i bet nobody is even on drugs.

Welcome to "the org", heartpeacesheart…
Thread missing or not yet approved
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Reply #28 posted 09/26/22 5:10pm

rap

WhisperingDandelions said:

rap said:

I was not referring to his legacy as a whole, however his addiction to (prescribed) medication and subsequent death are a stain on his legacy, whether we like it or not.

Only for you over-the-top anti-drug arbiters of morality.

Similar to how a small % of his more overtly religious fans view The Rainbow Children as an abhorrent blemish of his legacy, you all only speak for a mere fraction of a fraction the fanbase, and really your criticisms speak more to you individually as people than Prince as an artist.

It could come out that he slammed heroin before every recording session and it wouldn't change one iota of his artistic legacy... Farley/Belushi speedballs, whatever, if anything that's even more impressive given his productivity.

[Edited 9/24/22 19:49pm]

Cobblers.

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Reply #29 posted 09/26/22 5:26pm

paisleyparkgir
l

olb99 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

most people have epiphanies when on something, but then they rethink it when they are sober again.

.

MDMA (the active substance that's supposed to be in ecstasy) has been used in the 60s/70s and is now used again for psychotherapy precisely because it allows you to have insights, to confront your fears, etc. If you're in a suitable context (e.g. with psychotherapists), those insights will have some value (i.e. you won't "rethink" them when you're sober again).

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...chotherapy

.

I don't know what happened in Prince's head at that moment and nobody will ever know, but it's possible that Prince discovered something important while on MDMA/Ecstasy. At the same time and especially if he took too high a dose, it's also very possible that he hated it, because he hates losing control.

[Edited 9/26/22 0:01am]

I know most Prince fans are from Gen X, I don't know how taboo ecstasy was for you, I'm younger and I have friends who have experimented with this drug. It's supposed to make you all lovey dovey. You see the world from a more loving perspective. A lot of people with anger issues have experienced a positive change in their lives after taking x.

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Gilbert Davidson says Prince was not on drugs when he cancelled the black album.