TrivialPursuit said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

And that when he was found he had already been dead for 6 hours. Where was everyone before that ?

He's a grown man, so he didn't need to be babysat. He was at his home and Kirk went home to his wife & kids (which wasn't far away, actually). It's what grown folks do.

Clearly at this stage, he needed to be babysat.

NEAL KARLEN: Yes, he did. And I hope this isn't a bummer, this little story, because it led to-- I've only had a couple premonitions in my life. But I said, so what are you going to call it? Prince's Pleasure Palace? It was going to be like an Elvis Graceland thing? And he said, I'm going to to call it Paisley Park. And I said, what does Paisley Park mean?

And he said, it's a place where you can go to be alone.

https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2022/09/08/35-years-of-paisley-park-a-minnesota-author-reflects?fbclid=IwAR1aJ9tELwr8WxlpUvWHaQCqph8iXLg2ZuapiBb0rXfCyDqrbzaqyZ9xYDQ

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I'm more curious about the fact that Prince died alone. With all the staff, yes men, supposed love interests and such always being with him; all these years later, I truly still do not understand at all, HOW the fuck that happened?

I totally agree... This has always bothered me... Hate when people talk about the song "Let's Go Crazy" and how he end up dying along in the freakin elevator...

paisleyparkgirl said:

TrivialPursuit said:

He's a grown man, so he didn't need to be babysat. He was at his home and Kirk went home to his wife & kids (which wasn't far away, actually). It's what grown folks do.

Clearly at this stage, he needed to be babysat.

yes.

That "grown man" take is always delivered, sure, for aallll the other previous days in his life, absolutely valid, but uh, erm, on what became literally the final day of Prince's life, suggesting maybe if someone else was there the day could have perhaps ended differently really should not arouse such controversy.

[Edited 9/24/22 19:55pm]

pennylover said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I'm more curious about the fact that Prince died alone. With all the staff, yes men, supposed love interests and such always being with him; all these years later, I truly still do not understand at all, HOW the fuck that happened?

I totally agree... This has always bothered me... Hate when people talk about the song "Let's Go Crazy" and how he end up dying along in the freakin elevator...

Because 1) the elevator was a metaphor for the devil, not a literal OTIS elevator. And maniacs don't realize that.

2) they take it literally to make it seem like "He knew it was his time," yet he decided to just collapse dead as a doornail in an elevator. I mean, if someone is planning their death or "knows it was their time and just wanted to leave to have some peace" isn't going to think, "oh hey, lemme just give up the ghost on the escalator in Calhoun Square," or some stupid shit.

And to Hatrina: What staff? Where's "all the staff?" Did he even have a cook near the end? Maybe. You mean his hair gal? Kirk? The Weltons? Paisley Park was not some hustle and bustle place like it was in the first decade that it opened.

WhisperingDandelions said:

That's not the suggestion. The suggestion is how suspicious and absurd and nagging it must be that he was alone - except that was his preferred state of being.

TrivialPursuit said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

And that when he was found he had already been dead for 6 hours. Where was everyone before that ?

He's a grown man, so he didn't need to be babysat. He was at his home and Kirk went home to his wife & kids (which wasn't far away, actually). It's what grown folks do.

Are you fucking serious? Clearly, he NEEDED to be babysat because had just one person been there, it very well LITERALLY may have saved his life!

paisleyparkgirl said:

TrivialPursuit said:

He's a grown man, so he didn't need to be babysat. He was at his home and Kirk went home to his wife & kids (which wasn't far away, actually). It's what grown folks do.

Clearly at this stage, he needed to be babysat.

pennylover said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I'm more curious about the fact that Prince died alone. With all the staff, yes men, supposed love interests and such always being with him; all these years later, I truly still do not understand at all, HOW the fuck that happened?

I totally agree... This has always bothered me... Hate when people talk about the song "Let's Go Crazy" and how he end up dying along in the freakin elevator...

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

TrivialPursuit said:

He's a grown man, so he didn't need to be babysat. He was at his home and Kirk went home to his wife & kids (which wasn't far away, actually). It's what grown folks do.

Are you fucking serious? Clearly, he NEEDED to be babysat because had just one person been there, it very well LITERALLY may have saved his life!

Some "fans" really didn't care about the man at all.

He was just a music making machine to them.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

That ain't what he wanted. Clearly.

LoveGalore said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Are you fucking serious? Clearly, he NEEDED to be babysat because had just one person been there, it very well LITERALLY may have saved his life!

That ain't what he wanted. Clearly.

I'm going to say, "No, it ain't." Based on the fact that he ended up dying in an elevator because I think when he realized something wasn't right, he went trying to find some help.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Look, folks here understand the emotional reaction. But it also doesn't do much to make sense of the situation.

Yes, if he wasn't alone then maybe he would've lived.

All we know is that Prince was no idiot. And he got what he wanted when he wanted it. He knew the risks. The bigger question should be why didn't he care?

we can speculate all day on what was going through princes mind in this period.

no one knows really.

maybe the opiods made it hard for him to think properly.

maybe he was tired of everything and emotions long repressed were catching up with him.

maybe it was just an accident, pure and simple, a drug overdose taken by accident, or administered in error.

who knows.

maybe he should have taken better precautions, but maybe he didnt care, and thought some things are better left to the cosmos (security, wills, etc etc).

LoveGalore said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I'm going to say, "No, it ain't." Based on the fact that he ended up dying in an elevator because I think when he realized something wasn't right, he went trying to find some help.

Look, folks here understand the emotional reaction. But it also doesn't do much to make sense of the situation. Yes, if he wasn't alone then maybe he would've lived. All we know is that Prince was no idiot. And he got what he wanted when he wanted it. He knew the risks. The bigger question should be why didn't he care?

What doesn't do much to make sense of the situation is not talking about it. It's been six years and every time the subject is brought up, there seems to be a concerted effort to dismiss any questioning and steering the narrative to accept a notion that Prince was a secretive, reclusive, pill-popping junkie that died of an overdose with enough of the drug Fentanyl in his system to kill 10 elephants. Oh I absolutely would like to know supposedly "why didn't he care" because I don't believe that, at all.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

LoveGalore said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said: Look, folks here understand the emotional reaction. But it also doesn't do much to make sense of the situation. Yes, if he wasn't alone then maybe he would've lived. All we know is that Prince was no idiot. And he got what he wanted when he wanted it. He knew the risks. The bigger question should be why didn't he care?

. Oh I absolutely would like to know supposedly "why didn't he care" because I don't believe that, at all.

That's what I've been trying to find out for the past 6 years. He was a control freak who could be borderline paranoid and all of a sudden he takes a counterfeit pill "by accident" ?

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Because you're remixing what's being said here to fit your outrage.

Nobody here called him a junkie. Not even on the TMZ show. Just like when the other person said they hate when folks bring up the elevator - she was the only one who did that. Nobody else even mentioned it. You guys rile yourself up for nothing.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

TrivialPursuit said:

He's a grown man, so he didn't need to be babysat. He was at his home and Kirk went home to his wife & kids (which wasn't far away, actually). It's what grown folks do.

Are you fucking serious? Clearly, he NEEDED to be babysat because had just one person been there, it very well LITERALLY may have saved his life!

There is someone else, THE person, who he listened to for guidance in the alst 17-18 years of his life. The man who tried to help him "pray it away" BUT was not there for him at a critical moment. Maybe because there wasn't money in it any longer. He'd lived on P's dime for years, been employed by him, toured with him, led him to JW. But when push came to shove, where was HE?
But we know when the investigators went to his door and asked for him, he lied and told him he (himself) was not home. WTF.

Also don't forget that he wanted Tamron to come to MPLS and had also asked Judith to stay longer after the plane landed from Moline.

He was let down by so many.
What should have happened? Someone should have called everyone he'd ever worked with and/or loved, explained the situation and got them to Paisley ASAP and talk to him. Show him love. Like a large intervention.

laytonian said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Are you fucking serious? Clearly, he NEEDED to be babysat because had just one person been there, it very well LITERALLY may have saved his life!

There is someone else, THE person, who he listened to for guidance in the alst 17-18 years of his life. The man who tried to help him "pray it away" BUT was not there for him at a critical moment. Maybe because there wasn't money in it any longer. He'd lived on P's dime for years, been employed by him, toured with him, led him to JW. But when push came to shove, where was HE?
But we know when the investigators went to his door and asked for him, he lied and told him he (himself) was not home. WTF.

Also don't forget that he wanted Tamron to come to MPLS and had also asked Judith to stay longer after the plane landed from Moline.

He was let down by so many.
What should have happened? Someone should have called everyone he'd ever worked with and/or loved, explained the situation and got them to Paisley ASAP and talk to him. Show him love. Like a large intervention.

EXACTLY!!! The scare from the week earlier and the "necessity" of having to call in that doctor from California should have been powerful enough to risk him being upset with them for not leaving him alone, when he was clearly in need of someone to just honestly LOVE him. By that I mean; having the strength and courage to stand up against anybody trying to hurt him, even if that anybody was HIM!

I know none of this is going to bring Prince back or make any of the miserable cowardly POS grow a conscience about how terribly they failed him but here we are six years later and it still bothers me. I would really love for that not to be the case but it just does.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

No need to infantilize Prince on the org. LSA is better for that kind of action.

Here, the view is more objective. Prince took counterfeit drugs. Not counterfeit drugs that had been provided by a pharmacy. But counterfeit drugs purchased illegally.

And anyone who has experience with addiction knows that all the interventions in the world can't stop a determined addict. Kirk already went above his pay grade and friend grade to support Prince. He put his livelihood on the line for him, in fact. Who do you think found the specialist doctors? Not Prince.

Prince was so cavalier about his addiction that he sat and got high in front of his girlfriend, all but died in front of her, was resurrected (which he hated), and then promptly refused to admit shit to the hospital about anything at all.

And it has to be underscored here: prince sent people away. He did not ask Judith to stay. He didn't beg anyone to be there with him.

You guys need to realize your feelings aren't facts.

LoveGalore said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

EXACTLY!!! The scare from the week earlier and the "necessity" of having to call in that doctor from California should have been powerful enough to risk him being upset with them for not leaving him alone, when he was clearly in need of someone to just honestly LOVE him. By that I mean; having the strength and courage to stand up against anybody trying to hurt him, even if that anybody was HIM!

I know none of this is going to bring Prince back or make any of the miserable cowardly POS grow a conscience about how terribly they failed him but here we are six years later and it still bothers me. I would really love for that not to be the case but it just does.

No need to infantilize Prince on the org. LSA is better for that kind of action. Here, the view is more objective. Prince took counterfeit drugs. Not counterfeit drugs that had been provided by a pharmacy. But counterfeit drugs purchased illegally. And anyone who has experience with addiction knows that all the interventions in the world can't stop a determined addict. Kirk already went above his pay grade and friend grade to support Prince. He put his livelihood on the line for him, in fact. Who do you think found the specialist doctors? Not Prince. Prince was so cavalier about his addiction that he sat and got high in front of his girlfriend, all but died in front of her, was resurrected (which he hated), and then promptly refused to admit shit to the hospital about anything at all. And it has to be underscored here: prince sent people away. He did not ask Judith to stay. He didn't beg anyone to be there with him. You guys need to realize your feelings aren't facts.

I've been a member of the Org in one form or another, since its beginning. Talking to me like you're talking to someone on LSA will result in nothing but your feelings being very hurt. I strongly suggest you cut that bullshit with me because I am not the game you want to play.

As for the counterfeit drugs, they were purchased illegally for him, not by him. With that being the case, Kirk going "above his pay grade and friend grade to support Prince and putting his livelihood on the line " is not the super flex you seem to think it is, when the one time Prince needed him MOST, he wasn't there. Prince didn't need to beg anyone to be there with him, they were supposed to be his closest friends and very worried about him. So being by his side that fateful night wasn't a damn choice, it was a motherfucking obligation that not one of them honestly LOVED him enough to fulfill! Regardless of my feelings (which are far more viciously obscene and angry for me to post) that's fact.

[Edited 9/26/22 10:18am]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I think the rantings of an emotionally charged old woman will not soon hurt my feelings so we are good to go. Like I said, LSA is for the sycophants who don't wanna listen to reason and logic. If that's how you wanna play, that's where you go for it. Consider it a public service announcement.

You are still projecting. You're dreaming up ways that these people felt and acted. You have no idea, why would you even think to make such wild accusations. It doesn't work like that and when Prince says go away, you go away. Yes, even YOU.

Come on what kind of lone are you talking about?

He probably lived like the Lone Ranger with one friend he relied upon like Tanto.

LoveGalore said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I've been a member of the Org in one form or another, since its beginning. Talking to me like you're talking to someone on LSA will result in nothing but your feelings being very hurt. I strongly suggest you cut that bullshit with me because I am not the game you want to play.

As for the counterfeit drugs, they were purchased illegally for him, not by him. With that being the case, Kirk going "above his pay grade and friend grade to support Prince and putting his livelihood on the line " is not the super flex you seem to think it is, when the one time Prince needed him MOST, he wasn't there. Prince didn't need to beg anyone to be there with him, they were supposed to be his closest friends and very worried about him. So being by his side that fateful night wasn't a damn choice, it was a motherfucking obligation that not one of them honestly LOVED him enough to fulfill! Regardless of my feelings (which are far more viciously obscene and angry for me to post) that's fact.

[Edited 9/26/22 10:18am]

I think the rantings of an emotionally charged old woman will not soon hurt my feelings so we are good to go. Like I said, LSA is for the sycophants who don't wanna listen to reason and logic. If that's how you wanna play, that's where you go for it. Consider it a public service announcement. You are still projecting. You're dreaming up ways that these people felt and acted. You have no idea, why would you even think to make such wild accusations. It doesn't work like that and when Prince says go away, you go away. Yes, even YOU.

They way people are dropping left and right, being an old woman is a blessing and when I get to be one, I'll appreciate it as such. My emotionally charged rantings have nothing to do with age. They stem from the anger that I have because Prince died alone, period! Whether or not you agree, I truly give no fucks but what you are not going to do is bully me into not saying whatever I want because you haven't any more of an idea than the rest of us.

As for the "when Prince says go away you go away. Yes, even YOU." No, I'm afraid not ME because that's what cowardly bitch-ass sycophants do, not people that honestly LOVE someone when clearly they are in crisis and need of help. Prince would have just had to be mad as fuck with ME! Cuss me, fire me, cut me off financially, stop speaking to me, physically fight me, call the cops on me, whatever it took but you know what? I'd have been okay with all of that because he'd have likely been ALIVE the next day to get the damn help he needed and perhaps even still here today!

let's lighten things up a bit shall we?

[Edited 10/18/22 13:37pm]

Didn't expect this thread to get so out of hand.

I guess the consensus is that he had the women stay for periods of time but didn't live with any like he did with susannah, Anna, Mayte and Manuela (to name a few).

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

He WAS getting the help he needed! And he should be rewarded with his autonomy. Prince died because of a really, really poorly timed accident. And what is poetic about how and where he died is exactly what he was talking about in Let's Go Crazy. That's what is so stunning and crazy ABOUT it. Prince was off his game, big time, in the end.

And above all, he let himself down. He let down the people who thought he was smarter than that - just taking random pills or pills not even prescribed to him or not knowing exactly what he's putting in himself or not being so sloppy as to overdose twice within a week.

Again, his death was a fucking accident. Not some conspiracy. Not some negligence. But an accident. And they do happen. And sometimes they're incredibly costly. But it doesn't make it any more or less an accident. Folks who were around Prince loved that man too, and check the record - they did what they could. What any one really could.

LoveGalore said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

They way people are dropping left and right, being an old woman is a blessing and when I get to be one, I'll appreciate it as such. My emotionally charged rantings have nothing to do with age. They stem from the anger that I have because Prince died alone, period! Whether or not you agree, I truly give no fucks but what you are not going to do is bully me into not saying whatever I want because you haven't any more of an idea than the rest of us.

As for the "when Prince says go away you go away. Yes, even YOU." No, I'm afraid not ME because that's what cowardly bitch-ass sycophants do, not people that honestly LOVE someone when clearly they are in crisis and need of help. Prince would have just had to be mad as fuck with ME! Cuss me, fire me, cut me off financially, stop speaking to me, physically fight me, call the cops on me, whatever it took but you know what? I'd have been okay with all of that because he'd have likely been ALIVE the next day to get the damn help he needed and perhaps even still here today!

Again, his death was a fucking accident. Not some conspiracy. Not some negligence. But an accident. And they do happen. And sometimes they're incredibly costly. But it doesn't make it any more or less an accident. Folks who were around Prince loved that man too, and check the record - they did what they could. What any one really could.

It doesn't read like an accident to me. Especially if the overdose happened not once but twice.

paisleyparkgirl said:

I'm sure prince did not intend to kill himself.

LoveGalore said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

It doesn't read like an accident to me. Especially if the overdose happened not once but twice.

I'm sure prince did not intend to kill himself.

When Judith was asked about whether or not he was suicidal she said 50-50.