W&L overrating is a mainstream critic kinda thing.

This place had a couple like that maybe like 2007? They were all probably conflating the Planet Earth credits with the Tavis Smiley performance, retrospectively reading too heavily into "In This Bed I Scream" and trying to construe SOTT into Roadhouse Garden lite.

The org is more W&L backlash mode now since they (W&L,&S) are now more overt with asserting their input in certain eras / songs / facets of Prince, where it used to have more of the Prince mystery element around their time together.

[Edited 9/11/22 22:40pm]

WhisperingDandelions said:

W&L overrating is a mainstream critic kinda thing.

This place had a couple like that maybe like 2007? They were all probably conflating the Planet Earth credits with the Tavis Smiley performance, retrospectively reading too heavily into "In This Bed I Scream" and trying to construe SOTT into Roadhouse Garden lite.

The org is more W&L backlash mode now since they (W&L,&S) are now more overt with asserting their input in certain eras / songs / facets of Prince, where it used to have more of the Prince mystery element around their time together.

[Edited 9/11/22 22:40pm]

right. these days, there is a lot more 'W&L are overrated' type posts (which are also a bit dumb tbh). i mean, yeah, its fair to say a lot of ppl value the era in which they were in his band most highly, and with good reason, but thats also down to so many other factors. if he brought W&L back in 98 or 2004, it doesnt mean that they would have automatically created amazing masterpiece after amazing masterpiece. what they did in the mid 80s was basically down to multiple factors all aligning at the same time - the musical climate at the time, his career, his ambitions, his musical/artistic goals, etc, they just happened to help him get there. same way that someone like say, lou reed can work with his velvet underground bandmates years later and its just not gonna be the same as what they did the first time round. or george clinton - he can work with bootsy and fred wesley over and over, but its never going to be what it was in the 70s.

if ppl wanna be like, prince was best before and after W&L, then that's fine, but youre basically saying that purple rain, ATWIAD, parade all suck. and although theyre not officially on SOTT, that album was made mostly during the time he still had the revolution, so i guess you have to get rid of that too. so thats cool, if thats your preference (there is something to be said for DM, controversy and 1999 being the ultimate in prince at his most sexual and raw and funky), but thats a lot of good stuff to skip over!

[Edited 9/12/22 0:50am]

eye felt the revolution were the best at recreating how prince sounded alone in the studio .. the addition of the horns took what prince could do himself to another level into what he could not do himself .. as did the addition of sheila on drums .. from there his sound became less prince and more a reflection of the cats he had in the bands he put together .. abandoning the revolution also seemed to trigger a rejection of that particular prince live sound and studio feel .. his songwriting became more bragging to the new folks he kept around and became less intimate or revealing or honest .. his music did drop in quality around the same time he dumped the revolution .. what came after never held up as well altho there are some quite enjoyable songs that came after .. moving to paisley park did not help either as his sound and bands all became more sterilie and "professional" sounding instead of the cozy analog basement home studio sound he had perfected .. lisa was a huge influence on prince tho I would say andre dez fink and bobby z were crucial to the recipie for some of prince most eternal tunes .. the fact that he was friends with most of the revolution members changed the dynamic when he made the final purge around SOTT save only Fink .. when fink left it barely even sounded like prince anymore .. sounded more like a studio musician trying to sound like prince instead of the real deal ... revolution was a punk band of friends mostly .. eye don't think prince was really friends with any band that came after .. if so very superficially .. the isolation and pure professionalism showed glaringly in what came after

LoveGalore said:

The Lovesexy band felt great together, I think. And they were mostly his friends too. Most of them had been working with him since 83-84.

yeah, on songs like dance on, that band sound incredible.

shame he didnt record more with them.

but his actual writing was starting to decline a bit in this period, despite that.

The Revolution (different incarnations) were around during his most succesful and prolific period when he recorded the work that became his signatures. Same with his image.

[Edited 9/12/22 11:16am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i love lovesexy, it def has some bonafide prince classics on it.

but i think its an album thats more about a vibe, a feeling.

at least, compared to SOTT, it doesnt sounds like it was really honed. he just wanted to get it down and then released as fast as he could.

its def an inspired album, i just think his attention to craft on this and batman werent quite what they had been before.

but hey, thats prince in general, sometimes he knocks stuff out, other times, he really spends time on a song.

PJMcGee said:

Yeah, there isn't a bright line or a sharp drop-off post-Rev. Shoot, my first Prince concert was Lovesexy 10/2/88, probably the most entertained I've ever been by anything. Actually, the turn towards a colder professionalism might be more pronounced after the commercial failure of that album.

the lovesexy tour was his greatest tour. SOTT tour was his second best tour. but that was the best band he ever had (in my view).

but in terms of the albums, the songs he was recording, its prob not inaccurate to say he was on fire during the revolution years.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

W&L overrating is a mainstream critic kinda thing.

This place had a couple like that maybe like 2007? They were all probably conflating the Planet Earth credits with the Tavis Smiley performance, retrospectively reading too heavily into "In This Bed I Scream" and trying to construe SOTT into Roadhouse Garden lite.

The org is more W&L backlash mode now since they (W&L,&S) are now more overt with asserting their input in certain eras / songs / facets of Prince, where it used to have more of the Prince mystery element around their time together.

[Edited 9/11/22 22:40pm]

if ppl wanna be like, prince was best before and after W&L, then that's fine, but youre basically saying that purple rain, ATWIAD, parade all suck.

[Edited 9/12/22 0:50am]

Although they say they contributed to SOTT, I don't hear it, they'd need to provide receipt. I look at it as a Prince (without W&L) album.

Purple Rain, ATWIAD and Parade are great but I prefer other Prince albums. Those do not represent him, especially Purple Rain. He did that to crossover he knew which formula to use.

paisleyparkgirl said:

lavendardrummachine said:

The Revolution (different incarnations) were around during his most succesful and prolific period when he recorded the work that became his signatures. Same with his image.

Right here.

Pretty much the bulk of what the general public knows of Prince had The Revolution behind him.

Se7en said:

lavendardrummachine said:

The Revolution (different incarnations) were around during his most succesful and prolific period when he recorded the work that became his signatures. Same with his image.

Right here.

Pretty much the bulk of what the general public knows of Prince had The Revolution behind him.

Right!

His "28th Instrument"

They were special enough that he gave them a name. The first time he'd named his band. So....

LoveGalore said:

PJMcGee said:

I'm not sure if many others feel this way, but I've never really had a particular preference for any specific Prince bands. I'm not saying each band didn't have unique strengths/influences, but whichever band Prince had at the time seemed to match whatever kind of music he wanted to play. They were all excellent, I don't think Prince would have tolerated anything less.

.

As far as why there is a draw The Revolution. Not to take anything away from ATWIAD or Parade, they were incredible albums...But IMO, most of it is the Purple Rain factor - a very signature era of Prince.

Lovesexy band was his second best band.

The first was the stripped down NPG with Michael, Morris, Tommy, and Sonny.

The Revolution ties for third, for me. It was after Emancipation that I stopped keeping track of who was who; I didn't much care anymore. Those moments with Najee, Maceo, that French guy w/ the harmonica, Kip, Graham, etc., just didn't feel interesting anymore.

And who was that poor "Bang!" kid on keyboards in Graffiti Bridge?? Wherever happened to him??

the reason the revolution are seen as so special isnt really that they were a 'better' band (if technical brilliance was everything though, the early 00s band would be rated more highly), but that they were there when prince was writing whats generally thought of as his best songs. sure, the rainbow children band might have better chops, but who cares when the band is the band playing lets go crazy, raspberry beret, etc etc. i know that for a lot of this period, on many or most songs, its actually prince doing it all, not the revolution, but it almost doesnt matter. he would likely also have been thinking about how they would play it somewhere along the line when recording them. so that all factors into why they were so key.

as a balance of sheer chops and general cohesion as a unit and also how they looked, id say the 87/88 band are the obvious winners. i mean, they could play anything, and they looked cool AF (as well as sexy, thanks to cat and sheila, cmon!) too.

the stripped down NPG has its strengths (the undertaker session def kills), but i havent heard enough bootlegs from that period to comment fairly unfortunately.

[Edited 9/18/22 11:30am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

the reason the revolution are seen as so special isnt really that they were a 'better' band (if technical brilliance was everything though, the early 00s band would be rated more highly), but that they were there when prince was writing whats generally thought of as his best songs. sure, the rainbow children band might have better chops, but who cares when the band is the band playing lets go crazy, raspberry beret, etc etc. i know that for a lot of this period, on many or most songs, its actually prince doing it all, not the revolution, but it almost doesnt matter. he would likely also have been thinking about how they would play it somewhere along the line when recording them. so that all factors into why they were so key.

as a balance of sheer chops and general cohesion as a unit and also how they looked, id say the 87/88 band are the obvious winners. i mean, they could play anything, and they looked cool AF (as well as sexy, thanks to cat and sheila, cmon!) too.

the stripped down NPG has its strengths (the undertaker session def kills), but i havent heard enough bootlegs from that period to comment fairly unfortunately.

[Edited 9/18/22 11:30am]

Yes!

Prince's 28th instrument

[Edited 9/18/22 13:34pm]

AvocadosMax said:

The single player who stood out from the Revolution is Dr Fink. Even Prince kept him along for the Sign O The Times tour Then Wendy & Lisa as they were special to the era and gave Prince an additional flavor to his songwriting Other than that, there’s nothing too special about The Revolution (besides Dez). His best band was the ‘93–‘95 NPG with Michael B and Sonny T. Probably the most funky

I'd agree about Fink. He was in Prince's band(s) the longest besides Morris Hayes' tenure.

But don't tell Brownmark that.

AvocadosMax said:

The single player who stood out from the Revolution is Dr Fink. Even Prince kept him along for the Sign O The Times tour Then Wendy & Lisa as they were special to the era and gave Prince an additional flavor to his songwriting Other than that, there’s nothing too special about The Revolution (besides Dez). His best band was the ‘93–‘95 NPG with Michael B and Sonny T. Probably the most funky

if you count the extended revolution, id say eric leeds and atlanta bliss changed princes sound pretty significantly.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

if you count the extended counter-revolution, id say eric leeds and atlanta bliss changed princes sound pretty significantly.

He had changed his sound by then anyway. But if we're talking just adding a sax player, that goes to folks like Larry Williams and Eddie M.

TrivialPursuit said:

LoveGalore said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I'd agree about Fink. He was in Prince's band(s) the longest besides Morris Hayes' tenure.

But don't tell Brownmark that.

I mean, Mark might be the one band member in dire need of his redemption considering Prince did him no favors at the mixing board. The PR Live release and Soul Psychodelicide should be proof that Mark is a killer bassist.

I've no doubt he's a great player. But his book had him elevating himself as the 2nd in charge or Prince's defacto advisor on something. It was kinda ridiculous.

I sorta wonder about the potential of the band - or even the name - had Andre and Dez stayed in through Purple Rain, at least.

TrivialPursuit said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

if you count the extended counter-revolution, id say eric leeds and atlanta bliss changed princes sound pretty significantly.

He had changed his sound by then anyway. But if we're talking just adding a sax player, that goes to folks like Larry Williams and Eddie M.

he might have used them as horn players first, but theres no way they helped change princes sound and general direction as much as leeds/bliss did. nor did he use them as much.

[Edited 9/19/22 12:25pm]

TrivialPursuit said: