LoveGalore said:

I'd love it if future SDEs were a little more clinical in their approach. Rather than these sets being compiled to tell Prince's biography, they could let the music speak for itself and put the facts up front. For example: tracklist configurations. It's well known that damn near every album went through about a dozen configurations over time. I don't see any of this in any of the three deluxe releases we have so far. I wanna see actual definitive tracklists of Dream Factory and Crystal Ball and Camille in the liner notes for SOTT. I wanna see that Dreams playlist from the TBO book in the purple rain liner notes. I wanna finally see what the fuck 1999 looked like and was called before WB told him to go back and do a banger and he turned up with the title track. How did he start the album? I've heard 1999 replaced Turn It Up but can we see this written in order anywhere? Ostensibly, Lady Cab Driver replaced Rearrange (that seems to be the implication from its inclusion). Where is this data? Forget the wonderfully written forwards or whatever. I don't need to hear what a reporter or Duff McKagan feel about it if it's at the expense of actual data. And they go so far as to show the reels and lyric sheets. Actual configuration lists showing the progress of the album would be way cooler. Some exposition on why he chose certain instruments and styles rather than another person telling us how avante garde a song about a girl with Downs is, or yet another retelling of the Rolling Stones show.

Co-sign.

LoveGalore said:

I'd love it if future SDEs were a little more clinical in their approach. Rather than these sets being compiled to tell Prince's biography, they could let the music speak for itself and put the facts up front. For example: tracklist configurations. It's well known that damn near every album went through about a dozen configurations over time. I don't see any of this in any of the three deluxe releases we have so far. I wanna see actual definitive tracklists of Dream Factory and Crystal Ball and Camille in the liner notes for SOTT. I wanna see that Dreams playlist from the TBO book in the purple rain liner notes. I wanna finally see what the fuck 1999 looked like and was called before WB told him to go back and do a banger and he turned up with the title track. How did he start the album? I've heard 1999 replaced Turn It Up but can we see this written in order anywhere? Ostensibly, Lady Cab Driver replaced Rearrange (that seems to be the implication from its inclusion). Where is this data? Forget the wonderfully written forwards or whatever. I don't need to hear what a reporter or Duff McKagan feel about it if it's at the expense of actual data. And they go so far as to show the reels and lyric sheets. Actual configuration lists showing the progress of the album would be way cooler. Some exposition on why he chose certain instruments and styles rather than another person telling us how avante garde a song about a girl with Downs is, or yet another retelling of the Rolling Stones show.

Perfectly worded and my feelings exactly. Ditto!

i agree.

i think the estate were more concerned about making sure the content in the book responded in some way to the discussions around race in the US at the time, ie that princes connection to black music and culture was not downplayed. which is why the daphne brooks essay was front, and why you had uhh renowned music scholar dave chappelle writing in there too.

but you did get the essays from andrea swenson and duane tudahl and IIRC there were techier details in the back? (id have to look again)

this kind of princevault data i guess is destined to stay purely on princevault.

[Edited 9/6/22 9:15am]

sde's are missing literally everything

LoveGalore said:

I'd love it if future SDEs were a little more clinical in their approach. Rather than these sets being compiled to tell Prince's biography, they could let the music speak for itself and put the facts up front. For example: tracklist configurations. It's well known that damn near every album went through about a dozen configurations over time. I don't see any of this in any of the three deluxe releases we have so far. I wanna see actual definitive tracklists of Dream Factory and Crystal Ball and Camille in the liner notes for SOTT. I wanna see that Dreams playlist from the TBO book in the purple rain liner notes. I wanna finally see what the fuck 1999 looked like and was called before WB told him to go back and do a banger and he turned up with the title track. How did he start the album? I've heard 1999 replaced Turn It Up but can we see this written in order anywhere? Ostensibly, Lady Cab Driver replaced Rearrange (that seems to be the implication from its inclusion). Where is this data? Forget the wonderfully written forwards or whatever. I don't need to hear what a reporter or Duff McKagan feel about it if it's at the expense of actual data. And they go so far as to show the reels and lyric sheets. Actual configuration lists showing the progress of the album would be way cooler. Some exposition on why he chose certain instruments and styles rather than another person telling us how avante garde a song about a girl with Downs is, or yet another retelling of the Rolling Stones show.

If the Estate won't do this for us fans then I bet nobody will because we simple fans don't have acces or aren't shared these things that are shared among a few like the early tracklist for Prince, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, unknown to us titled album, ATWIAD etc. that have been shared among some.
Hell, the tracklist for Love4OneAnother has been shared to some a while ago but we simple fans have to make due with the Estate who will probably never mention this and so we will never know about it

I realy wish the Estate would take us fans more seriously. But I guess it's just about the money and mythmaking regarding some of these useless liner notes.

[Edited 9/7/22 1:22am]

LoveGalore said:

I'd love it if future SDEs were a little more clinical in their approach. Rather than these sets being compiled to tell Prince's biography, they could let the music speak for itself and put the facts up front. (...) (...)

All well and fine,

but,

as messy was Prince was...

How can they - as non-Prince-Die-Hards - know more than some die-hard-fans do ?

Apparently the co-partnership with those who kow (more),

with the likes of Tudahl & Questlove for example,

don't had/have the impact you or we are longing for.

-

Let me correct myself here;

Maybe people like Tudahl and Questlove just don't have that much to say, or don't have that sort of impoact.

So, how can we as fans make them clear to take better actions?

Mailing them?

Petition?

Knocking on their door?

Protesting with a sign/board undeneath their office windows? ...entrance hall?

whatever...

[Edited 9/7/22 3:16am]

JorisE73 said:

LoveGalore said:

I'd love it if future SDEs were a little more clinical in their approach. Rather than these sets being compiled to tell Prince's biography, they could let the music speak for itself and put the facts up front. For example: tracklist configurations. It's well known that damn near every album went through about a dozen configurations over time. I don't see any of this in any of the three deluxe releases we have so far. I wanna see actual definitive tracklists of Dream Factory and Crystal Ball and Camille in the liner notes for SOTT. I wanna see that Dreams playlist from the TBO book in the purple rain liner notes. I wanna finally see what the fuck 1999 looked like and was called before WB told him to go back and do a banger and he turned up with the title track. How did he start the album? I've heard 1999 replaced Turn It Up but can we see this written in order anywhere? Ostensibly, Lady Cab Driver replaced Rearrange (that seems to be the implication from its inclusion). Where is this data? Forget the wonderfully written forwards or whatever. I don't need to hear what a reporter or Duff McKagan feel about it if it's at the expense of actual data. And they go so far as to show the reels and lyric sheets. Actual configuration lists showing the progress of the album would be way cooler. Some exposition on why he chose certain instruments and styles rather than another person telling us how avante garde a song about a girl with Downs is, or yet another retelling of the Rolling Stones show.

If the Estate won't do this for us fans then I bet nobody will because we simple fans don't have acces or aren't shared these things that are shared among a few like the early tracklist for Prince, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, unknown to us titled album, ATWIAD etc. that have been shared among some.
Hell, the tracklist for Love4OneAnother has been shared to some a while ago but we simple fans have to make due with the Estate who will probably never mention this and so we will never know about it

I realy wish the Estate would take us fans more seriously. But I guess it's just about the money and mythmaking regarding some of these useless liner notes.

[Edited 9/7/22 1:22am]

From what i heard from some very well informed with the previous team who provided 1999 SDE & SOTT/W2A SDE & what is the situation now & the spirit state from the New Team => MC Millan & Sharon among others.....u can forget the old good days with big SDE ...the strategy from the new team in charge of the Estate would be pointed forward >>> musical rights with film soundtracks and advertising, merchandizing of clothing and goodies, broadway-type theatrical or musical performance with music from the back catalog, it seems that the new team is losing interest in SDE, some of which had access to certain details in end of 2021 and beginning of 2022 for the SDE of D&P / Lovesymbom and which was ready for production, it is said that the project was huge in terms of content, it seems that all this should change according to the rumors heard not for the best path for us the first hour fans very attached to new and coherent content from the Vault!
I hope what I heard is exaggerated but deep down I think the best is behind us

love2thenines2003 said:

JorisE73 said:

If the Estate won't do this for us fans then I bet nobody will because we simple fans don't have acces or aren't shared these things that are shared among a few like the early tracklist for Prince, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, unknown to us titled album, ATWIAD etc. that have been shared among some.
Hell, the tracklist for Love4OneAnother has been shared to some a while ago but we simple fans have to make due with the Estate who will probably never mention this and so we will never know about it

I realy wish the Estate would take us fans more seriously. But I guess it's just about the money and mythmaking regarding some of these useless liner notes.

[Edited 9/7/22 1:22am]

From what i heard from some very well informed with the previous team who provided 1999 SDE & SOTT/W2A SDE & what is the situation now & the spirit state from the New Team => MC Millan & Sharon among others.....u can forget the old good days with big SDE ...the strategy from the new team in charge of the Estate would be pointed forward >>> musical rights with film soundtracks and advertising, merchandizing of clothing and goodies, broadway-type theatrical or musical performance with music from the back catalog, it seems that the new team is losing interest in SDE, some of which had access to certain details in end of 2021 and beginning of 2022 for the SDE of D&P / Lovesymbom and which was ready for production, it is said that the project was huge in terms of content, it seems that all this should change according to the rumors heard not for the best path for us the first hour fans very attached to new and coherent content from the Vault!
I hope what I heard is exaggerated but deep down I think the best is behind us

Well, if that is really the case then that's it for me. I won't be supporting them for anything and pirate everything.

Agreed. They seem to be making these SDEs for the non-fans, which is silly as they are not buying a $200 box set. I do love the hand-written lyrics though, that stuff is awesome.

lustmealways said:

sde's are missing literally everything

in fact, right now, there aren't even any sde's


but yeah, agreed -completely- with the OP. early configurations, alternate tracklists scribbled
on notepads, test pressings etc, I want all of that info. Way more so than another essay or a
retelling of a story everyone knows.

JorisE73 said:

well why could it not be both? their plans to cash in on some of his back catalogue through licensing for movies etc is a good way for them to generate some more income.

those sde releases are nice for us but I doubt they make the estate tens of millions of dollars.

if they get their cash from milking his hits and his image / story, there is no reason why they could
not at the same time release vault projects.

especially since the storage and digitizing of all that content, let alone any upkeep or whatever, is
not going to pay for itself. but perhaps releasing the content of the vault, through sde releases or
such could go a long way toward making the vault pay for itself and it's storage and upkeep.

they still have to make cash for the estate to be financially healthy so yes, a focus on things that we
as fans might not be jumping at the bit for is more than likely about to come.

but like I said: why not both? especially if these SDE releases are pretty much ready to go to the
presses, it seems like a no brainer.

surely the big companies like sony or WB who also have a stake in these procedings will push for a
few more of those releases - one would assume. but who knows.

LILpoundCAKE said:

well why could it not be both? their plans to cash in on some of his back catalogue through licensing for movies etc is a good way for them to generate some more income.

those sde releases are nice for us but I doubt they make the estate tens of millions of dollars.

if they get their cash from milking his hits and his image / story, there is no reason why they could
not at the same time release vault projects.

especially since the storage and digitizing of all that content, let alone any upkeep or whatever, is
not going to pay for itself. but perhaps releasing the content of the vault, through sde releases or
such could go a long way toward making the vault pay for itself and it's storage and upkeep.

they still have to make cash for the estate to be financially healthy so yes, a focus on things that we
as fans might not be jumping at the bit for is more than likely about to come.

but like I said: why not both? especially if these SDE releases are pretty much ready to go to the
presses, it seems like a no brainer.

surely the big companies like sony or WB who also have a stake in these procedings will push for a
few more of those releases - one would assume. but who knows.

Cashing in on his back catalogue isn't an issue or licensing the music for movies or whatever is fine for a steady income (even tho i hope they won't do it for commercials; like using Tick, Tick, Bang for diarhea pills or Purple Rain for tampons or whatever seems kind of stupid.)

But finaly getting some professionally and respectfully curated SDE's for the fans and smaller sets to re-introduce him to youngsters would be perfect.
But with Mcmillan also still being there poisoning minds it wouldn't surprise me he will try anything to try and get rappers to sample or 'remix' the music or use it to market shitty Source Magazine.

JorisE73 said:

LoveGalore said:

JorisE73 said:

Cashing in on his back catalogue isn't an issue or licensing the music for movies or whatever is fine for a steady income (even tho i hope they won't do it for commercials; like using Tick, Tick, Bang for diarhea pills or Purple Rain for tampons or whatever seems kind of stupid.)

But finaly getting some professionally and respectfully curated SDE's for the fans and smaller sets to re-introduce him to youngsters would be perfect.
But with Mcmillan also still being there poisoning minds it wouldn't surprise me he will try anything to try and get rappers to sample or 'remix' the music or use it to market shitty Source Magazine.

Source magazine is one of the biggest and most culturally relevant publications in black music so I don't think shitty is the word I'd use to describe it. Plus I don't think shitty rappers would be able to afford the licensing. You could say there would be some bad songs made from remixing his music +see the Michael Jackson posthumous remixes with Will I Am) but prince wasn't even good at releasing 100% amazing music every time so I doubt anyone else could be either.

Source mag isn't any where near what it used to be, it's gone the way of Rolling Stone; shitty.

The Estate won't make millions just by selling SDE box sets that even I, a hardcore fan, am not interested in buying, because I don't collect physical stuff. They would make some money, sure, but not millions.

.

Miles Davis died 31 years ago. Since 1991, Sony released some excellent box sets (e.g. all those box sets with studio outtakes, rehearsals, etc. in the 90s / early 00s and "The Bootleg Series", started in 2011, is pretty good), but there are still many, many things left to release, 30 years after Miles' death. It's a bit depressing... I mean, how long do we have to wait for complete and correctly-mixed versions of Agharta/Pangaea?

.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't care if the Estate has to do questionable things to get the money they want/need. If that's the condition for more SDEs, then so be it.

[Edited 9/8/22 3:35am]

Marco81 said:

They were quite cryptic about the (apparently) 3 different configurations of Welcome 2 America they found CDs of, to then combine these as the final product.

one of the more insane choices of the estate at that time, was to not include the tracks that didn't
make that final tracklist that was released.

they released a special edition box with tons of cardboard and plastic yet no unreleased extra music.



it would have been so nice to have those tracks on a super special edition, even if only as download.

because when else are we going to get any of those tracks? perhaps, possibly, maybe in 2087.

LILpoundCAKE said:

Marco81 said:

They were quite cryptic about the (apparently) 3 different configurations of Welcome 2 America they found CDs of, to then combine these as the final product.

one of the more insane choices of the estate at that time, was to not include the tracks that didn't
make that final tracklist that was released.

they released a special edition box with tons of cardboard and plastic yet no unreleased extra music.



it would have been so nice to have those tracks on a super special edition, even if only as download.

because when else are we going to get any of those tracks? perhaps, possibly, maybe in 2087.

What were potential outtakes from W2A?

LILpoundCAKE said:

lurker316 said:

LoveGalore said:

lurker316 said:

What were potential outtakes from W2A?

I think the only one we know for sure is Cause & Effect since that's what's on PV. Clearly that feels like a placeholder since it is definitely a 20TEN outtake.

Some weeks before teh W2A release 3 configs were shared and discussed somewhere else with some.
We regulars were shared this back then and then knew there were (at least) 3 configs but not what was on them sadly.

JorisE73 said:

LoveGalore said:

JorisE73 said:

Some weeks before teh W2A release 3 configs were shared and discussed somewhere else with some.
We regulars were shared this back then and then knew there were (at least) 3 configs but not what was on them sadly.

To be honest, I can't imagine any of them are so incredible that we are missing out. But it does make me curious why they didn't just release them all. But maybe there will be a market for a W2A SDE in 2050.

Yes, kind of amateuristic they didn't put all the leftover tracks on it but still call the release a SDE.
I don't thnk they have much quality control or any experience with real SDE releases over there at the Estate to know what Super Deluxe releases really are.
It's not like there aren't hundreds of these done over the years for lesser artists that did them right that they could have referenceed

JorisE73 said:

LoveGalore said:

I'd love it if future SDEs were a little more clinical in their approach. Rather than these sets being compiled to tell Prince's biography, they could let the music speak for itself and put the facts up front. For example: tracklist configurations. It's well known that damn near every album went through about a dozen configurations over time. I don't see any of this in any of the three deluxe releases we have so far. I wanna see actual definitive tracklists of Dream Factory and Crystal Ball and Camille in the liner notes for SOTT. I wanna see that Dreams playlist from the TBO book in the purple rain liner notes. I wanna finally see what the fuck 1999 looked like and was called before WB told him to go back and do a banger and he turned up with the title track. How did he start the album? I've heard 1999 replaced Turn It Up but can we see this written in order anywhere? Ostensibly, Lady Cab Driver replaced Rearrange (that seems to be the implication from its inclusion). Where is this data? Forget the wonderfully written forwards or whatever. I don't need to hear what a reporter or Duff McKagan feel about it if it's at the expense of actual data. And they go so far as to show the reels and lyric sheets. Actual configuration lists showing the progress of the album would be way cooler. Some exposition on why he chose certain instruments and styles rather than another person telling us how avante garde a song about a girl with Downs is, or yet another retelling of the Rolling Stones show.

To each his own, but this "nerdy data" would not interest me at all. I much rather read about the "set-up" in Prince's life at that time the album was created / released, how it was received by the public, and some new / unreleased photos of that time.

And of course I want to a) have amazing sound. and b) alternate versions / unreleased songs. This is what really makes a SDE for me, and happy to have a live concert thrown in.

Yes, but they are also including some dumb stuff too. Radio edits being one of them.

On SOTT:SDE, they left off Good Love and a few others but included radio edits (?!!##%#%)

So they'll never get it 100% correct for everyone.

Krid said: