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Thread started 09/05/22 10:58am

TrivialPursuit

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The Deliverance EP case continues...

Local Today says, in part:


Music legend Prince has been dead for more than six years, but a fight rages on over an EP of five gospel-influenced blues tracks that his estate says was wrongly released a year after his death.

In an 18-page decision Tuesday, the Massachusetts Court of Appeals reversed the dismissal of a Supreme Court lawsuit filed against Boston-based entertainment attorney Christopher L. Brown, who advised his clients to release the “Deliverance Recordings” EP.

...

[...]between 2004 and 2008, [Prince] worked with California recording engineer George Ian Boxill, better known as Ian, during which time he independently recorded the five bluesy tracks that make up the Deliverance recordings, according to Tuesday’s court ruling consist of: “Deliverance”, “No One Else”, “I Am”, “Touch Me” and “Sunrise Sunset”.

After Prince’s death, Boxill teamed up with Washington-based distribution company Rogue Music Alliance LLC and approached Brown with the intention of releasing the EP.

It is Brown’s role in the controversy over the release of this recording that is at play in Massachusetts, but other elements of the case have played out in Minnesota and in federal courts.

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There is much more behind the source link.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #1 posted 09/06/22 4:55am

Krid

TrivialPursuit said:

Local Today says, in part:


Music legend Prince has been dead for more than six years, but a fight rages on over an EP of five gospel-influenced blues tracks that his estate says was wrongly released a year after his death.

In an 18-page decision Tuesday, the Massachusetts Court of Appeals reversed the dismissal of a Supreme Court lawsuit filed against Boston-based entertainment attorney Christopher L. Brown, who advised his clients to release the “Deliverance Recordings” EP.

...

[...]between 2004 and 2008, [Prince] worked with California recording engineer George Ian Boxill, better known as Ian, during which time he independently recorded the five bluesy tracks that make up the Deliverance recordings, according to Tuesday’s court ruling consist of: “Deliverance”, “No One Else”, “I Am”, “Touch Me” and “Sunrise Sunset”.

After Prince’s death, Boxill teamed up with Washington-based distribution company Rogue Music Alliance LLC and approached Brown with the intention of releasing the EP.

It is Brown’s role in the controversy over the release of this recording that is at play in Massachusetts, but other elements of the case have played out in Minnesota and in federal courts.

___________

There is much more behind the source link.

I think I bought this at the time on CD, and quite liked it... can't really recall where I bought it... How many copies were produced, does anyone know?

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Reply #2 posted 09/06/22 6:51am

lurker316

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I was trying to follow the point of this specific lawsuit. Boxhill already lost in the main suit, which questioned whether he could release the album. I *think* this lawsuit is Boxhill suing the guy who gave him bad legal advice -- in other words, Boxhill is suing the guy who told him he could release the CD on his own. But I could be misunderstanding.



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Reply #3 posted 09/07/22 4:07am

Vannormal

It wasn't Boxhill's music in the first place, what was he thinking?

What was the advisor thinking while giving advice about releasing unreleased Prince music...

Just sayin'

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #4 posted 09/07/22 10:16am

TrivialPursuit

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Vannormal said:

It wasn't Boxhill's music in the first place, what was he thinking?

What was the advisor thinking while giving advice about releasing unreleased Prince music...

Just sayin'


Yeah, that whole 50% ownership thing was ridiculous. Especially with PRINCE?! This really was a classic case of trying to get their fingers in the purple pie. So bold.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #5 posted 09/07/22 12:53pm

dustoff

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Vannormal said:

It wasn't Boxhill's music in the first place, what was he thinking?

What was the advisor thinking while giving advice about releasing unreleased Prince music...

Just sayin'

Don't know what he was thinking, but I'm sure glad he released the music. That EP is magnificent.

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Reply #6 posted 09/07/22 7:33pm

chrisslope9

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dustoff said:

Vannormal said:

It wasn't Boxhill's music in the first place, what was he thinking?

What was the advisor thinking while giving advice about releasing unreleased Prince music...

Just sayin'

Don't know what he was thinking, but I'm sure glad he released the music. That EP is magnificent.

Agreed. I listen to this way more than I do anything released by the estate.

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Reply #7 posted 09/07/22 11:52pm

TrivialPursuit

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And if the estate was smart, they'd put that EP out in full, give credit wherever it's due, and let it be an extra goodie.

Also, Prince randomly working with this guy out of the blue, and no one ever really knew a thing is really the most bizarre thing.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #8 posted 09/08/22 5:37am

JorisE73

Word is the original non 'finished' by Boxill versions were much better.
I like the release but to me they're nothing more than some fanmade remixes of unreleased finished songs and I would rather hear the original versions.

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Reply #9 posted 09/08/22 5:54am

LoveGalore

JorisE73 said:

Word is the original non 'finished' by Boxill versions were much better.
I like the release but to me they're nothing more than some fanmade remixes of unreleased finished songs and I would rather hear the original versions.



The second I heard that Ian "finished" these songs, I checked out. Don't need fanmade remixes.
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Reply #10 posted 09/08/22 8:43am

Vannormal

JorisE73 said:

Word is the original non 'finished' by Boxill versions were much better.
I like the release but to me they're nothing more than some fanmade remixes of unreleased finished songs and I would rather hear the original versions.

Exactly.

Then again, Joshua 'woosh' Welton had the oportunity to play and fuck around with Prince's tunes on ''Hit 'n Run Phase 1''.

I know it was Prince's choice. But i'm sure the original Prince produced trax are somewhere in the vault.

Anyways...

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #11 posted 09/08/22 10:53am

TrivialPursuit

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Vannormal said:

JorisE73 said:

Word is the original non-finished by Boxill versions were much better.
I like the release but to me they're nothing more than some fanmade remixes of unreleased finished songs and I would rather hear the original versions.

Exactly.

Then again, Joshua 'woosh' Welton had the opportunity to play and fuck around with Prince's tunes on "Hit 'n Run Phase 1."

I know it was Prince's choice. But I'm sure the original Prince produced trax are somewhere in the vault.

Anyways...


God, let's not go down that Welton rabbit hole right now. Irks the fuck outta me.

While Prince put his trust in Welton for whatever reason, I don't believe Boxill can use that precedence as his own for putting extra production and whatnot into this set of songs. Prince trusted people like Morris Hayes or Wendy and Lisa to play whatever on it, then Prince would come in later and take out stuff, etc., and get it where he liked it.

No one knows Boxill from a box of pills until this thing came out. There's zero reason to believe Prince would've let this stranger finish his music. This ain't "Contest Song" territory or something.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #12 posted 09/09/22 1:52am

JorisE73

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

Exactly.

Then again, Joshua 'woosh' Welton had the opportunity to play and fuck around with Prince's tunes on "Hit 'n Run Phase 1."

I know it was Prince's choice. But I'm sure the original Prince produced trax are somewhere in the vault.

Anyways...


God, let's not go down that Welton rabbit hole right now. Irks the fuck outta me.

While Prince put his trust in Welton for whatever reason, I don't believe Boxill can use that precedence as his own for putting extra production and whatnot into this set of songs. Prince trusted people like Morris Hayes or Wendy and Lisa to play whatever on it, then Prince would come in later and take out stuff, etc., and get it where he liked it.

No one knows Boxill from a box of pills until this thing came out. There's zero reason to believe Prince would've let this stranger finish his music. This ain't "Contest Song" territory or something.



The non-Boxill/Prince original versions were already on configs of albums (Planet Earth and Lotus Flower) so Prince considered them finished enough to put on a record, so Boxill's versions are non relevant and just some fan remixes.

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Reply #13 posted 09/09/22 2:39am

Marco81

The original versions were on the May 2007 configuration of Planet Earth.

[Edited 9/9/22 2:39am]

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Reply #14 posted 09/09/22 8:20am

lurker316

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TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

Exactly.

Then again, Joshua 'woosh' Welton had the opportunity to play and fuck around with Prince's tunes on "Hit 'n Run Phase 1."

I know it was Prince's choice. But I'm sure the original Prince produced trax are somewhere in the vault.

Anyways...


God, let's not go down that Welton rabbit hole right now. Irks the fuck outta me.

While Prince put his trust in Welton for whatever reason, I don't believe Boxill can use that precedence as his own for putting extra production and whatnot into this set of songs. Prince trusted people like Morris Hayes or Wendy and Lisa to play whatever on it, then Prince would come in later and take out stuff, etc., and get it where he liked it.

No one knows Boxill from a box of pills until this thing came out. There's zero reason to believe Prince would've let this stranger finish his music. This ain't "Contest Song" territory or something.



I agree. But to play devil's advocation, no one knew Josh Welton until Art Offiicial Age. We would have argued there was zero reason to believe Prince would let that stranger finish his music.


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Reply #15 posted 09/09/22 10:26am

TrivialPursuit

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JorisE73 said:


The non-Boxill/Prince original versions were already on configs of albums (Planet Earth and LotusFlower), so Prince considered them finished enough to put on a record. Boxill's versions are non-relevant and just fan remixes.


If that's the case, Planet Earth would've been a much better album had he put those songs on there, and ditched stuff like "Lion of Judah," "Resolution," and "All The Midnights In the World."

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #16 posted 09/09/22 10:52am

laytonian

lurker316 said:

TrivialPursuit said:


God, let's not go down that Welton rabbit hole right now. Irks the fuck outta me.

While Prince put his trust in Welton for whatever reason, I don't believe Boxill can use that precedence as his own for putting extra production and whatnot into this set of songs. Prince trusted people like Morris Hayes or Wendy and Lisa to play whatever on it, then Prince would come in later and take out stuff, etc., and get it where he liked it.

No one knows Boxill from a box of pills until this thing came out. There's zero reason to believe Prince would've let this stranger finish his music. This ain't "Contest Song" territory or something.



I agree. But to play devil's advocation, no one knew Josh Welton until Art Offiicial Age. We would have argued there was zero reason to believe Prince would let that stranger finish his music.



IMO, Prince gave Josh "work" to keep his wife in the 3EG lineup.
He liked them well enough to let them live free on his dime (one of the three properties he owned across from the Galpin property).

Checking on his IG and clicking on the fantasy website with policies and petitions plus asking for donations.. Ugh.
https://twitter.com/joshuaworld?lang=en

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #17 posted 09/09/22 11:26am

purplethunder3
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Vannormal said:

JorisE73 said:

Word is the original non 'finished' by Boxill versions were much better.
I like the release but to me they're nothing more than some fanmade remixes of unreleased finished songs and I would rather hear the original versions.

Exactly.

Then again, Joshua 'woosh' Welton had the oportunity to play and fuck around with Prince's tunes on ''Hit 'n Run Phase 1''.

I know it was Prince's choice. But i'm sure the original Prince produced trax are somewhere in the vault.

Anyways...

ill barf

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #18 posted 09/09/22 1:20pm

dustoff

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Not gonna wade into the Welton debate, but I will be contrarian here (it's the org after all) and say that what I like about the Deliverance production is that it feels pretty restrained. Whatever Boxhill did, it seems to me that he used a light touch.

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Reply #19 posted 09/10/22 5:47am

controversy99

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dustoff said:

Not gonna wade into the Welton debate, but I will be contrarian here (it's the org after all) and say that what I like about the Deliverance production is that it feels pretty restrained. Whatever Boxhill did, it seems to me that he used a light touch.


The Deliverance EP is one of my favorite Prince releases post-2006. The energy and musicality is great. Deliverance, Touch Me, and No One Else are my favorites. I feel the production is light on all the tracks except the title track. And what Boxill did on the title track, such as adding the full choir, we’re nice touches. A release by the Estate with Boxill’s versions and Prince’s originals would be really cool.
"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
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Reply #20 posted 09/10/22 5:51am

LoveGalore

Where are people hearing the original versions to judge what is a light touch or not?
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Reply #21 posted 09/10/22 10:28am

dustoff

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LoveGalore said:

Where are people hearing the original versions to judge what is a light touch or not?


Good question -- definitely not me. But IMHO the production on the ep sounds somewhat transparent, or at least not overly assertive or flashy or vulgar.

That said, it's also true that Boxhill threw a damn choir in the mix, so I realize I'm on shaky ground here.

So I have a hard time defending it, but I still like it.

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Reply #22 posted 09/10/22 4:47pm

controversy99

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dustoff said:



LoveGalore said:


Where are people hearing the original versions to judge what is a light touch or not?


Good question -- definitely not me. But IMHO the production on the ep sounds somewhat transparent, or at least not overly assertive or flashy or vulgar.



That said, it's also true that Boxhill threw a damn choir in the mix, so I realize I'm on shaky ground here.



So I have a hard time defending it, but I still like it.


I don’t think any of us have heard Prince’s originals. But there are a couple of ways to get insight into Boxhill’s contributions. There’s the document that he wrote explaining what he added, which was a fair amount to the title track such as the choir and keys I believe, yet very well done, imo. But that’s why I excluded the title track from my comments. But the other tracks are a different story. I Am clearly didn’t have much added since it’s basically just guitar, bass, drums, and voice. I suppose the other songs are a bit unknown, but mostly have just a few instruments featured. There is some instrumentation in the background that was probably added, but it’s integrated very well, imo.
"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
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Reply #23 posted 09/10/22 9:31pm

dustoff

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controversy99 said:

dustoff said:


Good question -- definitely not me. But IMHO the production on the ep sounds somewhat transparent, or at least not overly assertive or flashy or vulgar.

That said, it's also true that Boxhill threw a damn choir in the mix, so I realize I'm on shaky ground here.

So I have a hard time defending it, but I still like it.

I don’t think any of us have heard Prince’s originals. But there are a couple of ways to get insight into Boxhill’s contributions. There’s the document that he wrote explaining what he added, which was a fair amount to the title track such as the choir and keys I believe, yet very well done, imo. But that’s why I excluded the title track from my comments. But the other tracks are a different story. I Am clearly didn’t have much added since it’s basically just guitar, bass, drums, and voice. I suppose the other songs are a bit unknown, but mostly have just a few instruments featured. There is some instrumentation in the background that was probably added, but it’s integrated very well, imo.


Thanks for the insight -- I didn't know that document existed.

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Reply #24 posted 09/12/22 3:30pm

lavendardrumma
chine

It's so damn good, that's all I know.


It's also some of the best use of backing vocals from the Twins even if they're for another project.

I'd rather they just settle with the guy and let him reinvent other material.

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