PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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Internal/external it is obviously always a mix.

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But Prince was influenced by Bowie who by 1977 had shown many different characters in his performances and styles and had moved on from his false and later regretted declaration to be gay.

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I think he saw someone who stood out because he mixed great and experimental music with sets of highly provocative and individual characters and styles - Far more than just oh he was not restricted by gender.

Maybe, but according to paisleyparkgirl, Morris said Prince noticed his style, not his music or characters.

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Can you ever really separate a songwriter/performer's musical styles or the stage/public styles of a performer, especially a performer who creates each of these styles from their "style".

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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This is not a section of the song that can only be interpreted without reference to the rest of the song - in what he is only now willing and able to do because he has moved forward - he will play all his cards and there is nothing he would not do to achieve what he is only now willing able to do. This is as a result of moving forward from being like a child lost in the wilderness to being something unbelievers fear.

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You have not addressed that he did not then come out as bi - This is NOT what he was willing or able or even ever needed to do because he was not.

You're the one that's moving stuff around to fit your interpretation. You can't explain the one stanza as written and have to search around for other stuff to obfuscate.

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Not at all. I am interpreting the artwork as a whole, not picking out bits so they can be re-interpreted in a different way - a way that you know was never, ever followed up on. Prince did not write this as a bi anthem and he did not use it come out as bi.

IanRG said:

Style could just mean clothes. We are talking Morris and Prince here.

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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Placing your cards on the table is not a stand alone phrase - it must be read in context of the song. He is no longer a lost child in the wilderness - he has matured to the point that he can put the cards on table now when he could not before - He is now willing and able to do this.

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The song is absolutely clear about this:

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I'm ready to place my cards on the table
I've been holdin' back this feelin' for far to long
Now that I'm willin', it's a fact

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If you need to take phrases out of context to imagine wiggle room, was it ever an intented meaning by the author?

The man asked for context. 'Cause I'm willin' And I'm able I'm ready to place my cards on the table There's some kings in my deck and a queen or two So you know there ain't nothin', Nothin' that I wouldn't do

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Context as a whole, not just a few more lines. It was not written as a bi anthem and was never used as bi anthem or as method for Prince to come out as bi - because he was not.

IanRG said:

Because Prince was great at being clear and following up on stuff.

IanRG said:

The phrase we were talking about was the cards on the table, so I just showed you that it was right there. You didn't have to go hunting for it.

I didn't pick out bits. I picked out several consecutive lines that followed logically. You know that different parts of a song can refer to different things?

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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Can you ever really separate a songwriter/performer's musical styles or the stage/public styles of a performer, especially a performer who creates each of these styles from their "style".

Style could just mean clothes. We are talking Morris and Prince here.

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It could mean how he writes words with pen or how he handles tricky situations with style or whatever. Morris was a performer who also relied on a style in the music he performed, his persona on stage and in public and in clothes, even shoes.

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I ask again: Can you ever really separate a songwriter/performer's musical styles or the stage/public styles of a performer, especially a performer who creates each of these styles from their "style"? Clothes is part of it, but so is the rest.

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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Not at all. I am interpreting the artwork as a whole, not picking out bits so they can be re-interpreted in a different way - a way that you know was never, ever followed up on. Prince did not write this as a bi anthem and he did not use it come out as bi.

Because Prince was great at being clear and following up on stuff.

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So you think he just forgot to come out as bi?

IanRG said:

This is not a philosophical issue. It's Morris Day referring to style.

IanRG said:

He was a tease. And we all know how many things he "forgot" to do.

Morris referring to Bowie's style. Clothes was a huge part of that.

PJMcGee said:

I didn't pick out bits. I picked out several consecutive lines that followed logically. You know that different parts of a song can refer to different things?

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You did pick out bits - consecutive bits, but bits none-the-less.

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If your interpretation relies on considering blocks of a few lines separately from the whole of the song and this leads you to a different interpretation about what the whole of the song is about than reading the whole of the song, then your arguments are simply not convincing to others.

IanRG said:

Well you couldn't explain my bits logically, so you had to refer to other bits that maybe didn't have a lot to do with my bits.

Maybe anthem was overstating. I didn't mean that the entire song was about sexuality.

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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So you think he just forgot to come out as bi?

He was a tease. And we all know how many things he "forgot" to do.

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Sure, he was a tease but the thing you think he could be teasing about is hiding that he is bi and we know he was not.

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If there is a tease it is that he refers to his feminine as some of the cards he is willing able to play as he moved from being a child in the wilderness to someone so dedicated to putting all his cards on the table that unbelievers will fear him. There is another tease - By doing so it allowed Prince to refer to Kings and Queens.

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All the cards on the table is a biggy but not because he forgot that he was supposed to come out as gay. Both John the Baptist and Jesus spent time in the wilderness and those who did not believe either of them feared both of them and killed both of them them. Prince was willing and able to bear the Cross.

[Edited 9/2/22 18:11pm]

In my first post about this, I said he talks about the bi stuff but also has all this gospel stuff going on, muddying the waters.

Just saying I'm bi isn't art, it's a cover of Time magazine.

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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You did pick out bits - consecutive bits, but bits none-the-less.

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If your interpretation relies on considering blocks of a few lines separately from the whole of the song and this leads you to a different interpretation about what the whole of the song is about than reading the whole of the song, then your arguments are simply not convincing to others.

Well you couldn't explain my bits logically, so you had to refer to other bits that maybe didn't have a lot to do with my bits. Maybe anthem was overstating. I didn't mean that the entire song was about sexuality.

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No I explained the bits in context. In a song that is clearly not just a collection of random sayings, this is the only logical way to interpret the song - to do otherwise leads to misintrepration and misunderstanding.

PJMcGee said:

In my first post about this, I said he talks about the bi stuff but also has all this gospel stuff going on, muddying the waters. Just saying I'm bi isn't art, it's a cover of Time magazine.

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I don't think Prince muddied the waters - My interpretation is wholly consistent across all bits.

IanRG said:

We know he wasn't bi because he said so? He said he wasn't gay a few times. I don't know if he directly addressed the bi thing.

Now you're throwing a cross in there. You're making up bits!

IanRG said:

There is only one right interpretation - yours. Huh. Isn't that something. At least everyone knows who to go to know what Prince meant.

Has anyone ever called you rigid? In your thinking, I mean.

I'll take my consecutive bits over your nonconsecutive bits, thank you.

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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Sure, he was a tease but the thing you think he could be teasing about is hiding that he is bi and we know he was not.

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If there is a tease it is that he refers to his feminine as some of the cards he is willing able to play as he moved from being a child in the wilderness to someone so dedicated to putting all his cards on the table that unbelievers will fear him. There is another tease - By doing so it allowed Prince to refer to Kings and Queens.

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All the card on the table is a biggy but not because he forgot that he was suppoed to come out as gay. Both John the Baptist and Jesus spent time in the wilderness and those who did not believe either of them feared both of them snd killed both of them them. Prince was willing and able to bear the Cross.

We know he wasn't bi because he said so? He said he wasn't gay a few times. I don't know if he directly addressed the bi thing. Now you're throwing a cross in there. You're making up bits!

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We know that he rebuffed all advances from gay men by saying things like "We can friends but ....

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I am not making things up, I am making an interpretion based on the whole of the song and the specific religious analogies Prince wrote - Prince referenced that he has done his time in the wilderness (as did Jesus and John) and that he is willing and able to lay everything on the table (as did Jesus and John) and that unbelievers will fear just how resolved he is to do this (as did those who did not believe as Jesus and John did). You mentioned the Gospel influences. Whilst this is just an interpretation, it matches Prince's openly stated beliefs and not on bits that could show a hidden bi sexuality that there simply is no evidence of.

[Edited 9/2/22 18:43pm]

PJMcGee said:

I'll take my consecutive bits over your nonconsecutive bits, thank you.

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The whole song is consecutive - I rely on the whole song, not nonconsecutive bits. Thank you

PJMcGee said:

Has anyone ever called you rigid? In your thinking, I mean.

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Here only from those who don't want to condsider an alternate view from theirs.

[Edited 9/2/22 18:33pm]

PJMcGee said:

IanRG said:

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No I explained the bits in context. In a song that is clearly not just a collection of random sayings, this is the only logical way to interpret the song - to do otherwise leads to misintrepration and misunderstanding.

There is only one right interpretation - yours. Huh. Isn't that something. At least everyone knows who to go to know what Prince meant.

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It was not me who came up with a clearly unsustainable interpretation. I have never said my interpretation is the only intepretation or even right. It could have been about anything Prince strongly thought at this stage in his life - so strong he was prepared to do somerthing about it. We know he acted on his religious beliefs, we do not know of any time he acted on an imagined bisexuality.

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To defend your interpretation you called my interpretation illogical (pot v Kettle much) because I considered the whole of the song in context and each section consecutively.

IanRG said:

Physician, heal thyself.

IanRG said:

We don't know that he rebuffed all advances, any more than we know that he never ate meat.

You've really got one line about the wilderness, and from that you've spun John the Baptist and Jesus and his cross. I think my interpretation is less of a stretch. I mean, you conceded that the kings and queens was a reference to his feminine side. How the hell does that fit in with your John and your Jesus?

And I think you know I was referring to gospel music, not capital-G Gospel.

IanRG said:

I gave you some lines that followed consecutively and logically.

There's some kings in my deck and a queen or two
So you know there ain't nothin',
Nothin' that I wouldn't do

You said those last two lines were not about the line preceding (which was about his feminine side), but some other stuff he mentioned elsewhere. Yeah, that's unsustainable, bro.

IanRG said:

Quote: this is the only logical way to interpret the song.

Also quote: I have never said my interpretation is the only intepretation or even right.