PURPLEIZED3121 said:

JudasLChrist said:

In the early 90s Ingrid lived near me, and recorded her demo at Underground Studios directly accross the street from my house on 24th and Niccolett. We had a mutual friend who did plenty of acid (as did I), and I thought he'd tripped with her. I'm actually surprised to hear her say she -never- had done hallucinogens.

[Edited 8/26/21 15:31pm]

Must admit when I read her quote my first thought was .."well she would say that wouldn't she"!

Guess it's 50/50 ..but understand she needs to clear her name.

CAT we need U 2 rap !

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Ingrid's not saying she's never taken any hallucinogenic drugs. She's saying she's never done it with Prince. Which is consistent with what we know from Cat and Susan.

olb99 said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Must admit when I read her quote my first thought was .."well she would say that wouldn't she"!

Guess it's 50/50 ..but understand she needs to clear her name.

CAT we need U 2 rap !

.

Ingrid's not saying she's never taken any hallucinogenic drugs. She's saying she's never done it with Prince. Which is consistent with what we know from Cat and Susan.

You are correct. I read that several times and missed the qualifier.

If you followed the investigation and not the tabloids you would know the facts instead of the bullshit that Toure puts in the book.

Prince didn't die because of a drug addiction.

Prince died because parties unknown switched counterfeit Vicodin tablets for real medications. The fact the doctor gave Prince prescriptions for pain killers the day before his death shows that he didn't have a red flag on his name for meds. He also told people close to him that he wanted to know what was wrong with him.

We also know from the blood work that no Fentanyl was in his blood stream prior to April 21st.

To this day the origin of the Bayer and Alieve contents remain a mystery and those counterfeit Vicodin pills have an unknown press signature and we still have not seen it again.

muleFunk said:

If you followed the investigation and not the tabloids you would know the facts instead of the bullshit that Toure puts in the book.

Prince didn't die because of a drug addiction.

Prince died because parties unknown switched counterfeit Vicodin tablets for real medications. The fact the doctor gave Prince prescriptions for pain killers the day before his death shows that he didn't have a red flag on his name for meds. He also told people close to him that he wanted to know what was wrong with him.

We also know from the blood work that no Fentanyl was in his blood stream prior to April 21st.

To this day the origin of the Bayer and Alieve contents remain a mystery and those counterfeit Vicodin pills have an unknown press signature and we still have not seen it again.

ALL the pills looked identical. He was told by the hospital pharmacist in Moline that the drugs he had taken were Percocet (but that pharmacist did no testing nor did s/he keep those pills).

The prescription from Dr S was likely his own way of looking at the pills and judging their validity himself. REMEMBER, he blamed his incident on the plane on the narcan that he was given (read the damned inestigation with an open mind).i

It was luck of the draw that killed him. He likely had a near-death experience on April 7th.

NO ONE purposely killed Prince. He died because the medical establishment suddenly decided that "opioids are bad" and quit letting people have decent dosages. That meant they went seeking drugs from shady sources.
No one is going to target an aging rock star whose last album sold only 37,000. NO ONE is stupid enough to think they would profit from his death. And in fact, no one really has except the estate tax authorities in Minnesota and the IRS.

Mumio said:

laytonian said:

So many things wrong-inflated-conflated in this Toure publicity campaign that his lazy-ass "research" should be embarrassed. ANY of us could edit that mess.

YES. And I'm pretty pissed off at what Rev members were saying. I tried staying neutral about them, but it's just been one thing after another and I am fed up. They've lost all credibility with me and a lot of other people too

I don't trust Toure to accurately quote anyone.
I also don't trust memories and reminisences of people trying to justify pre-1987.

JudasLChrist said:

olb99 said:

This article is badly written, but I don't think it really tells us anything we didn't know about.

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The problem is that the word "drug" in English means very different things. Here, it's used to reference: 1) pain killers 2) MDMA / psilocybin mushrooms, and 3) all kinds of other drugs, including "harder" drugs (e.g. cocaine, etc.). It's not particularly useful to put all those substances in the same bag.

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So, Prince had a bad trip (using mushrooms) when he was young, with Morris. Not a big deal. It happened to millions of people. He took MDMA/ecstasy (with God knows what adulterant) with Ingrid Chavez and it didn't go well. We all know that story. Jill seems to imply that he did that repeatedly. This might be true. Or not. And we all know he was suffering from chronic pain, for various reasons. For that, he took pain killers. Yes, he was addicted to them. But it's not the same as being addicted to cocaine or heroin. He was against those drugs, didn't want people taking them around him, and rightly so.

I don't understand that statement. I'd say that being addicted to opiates in pill form or what have you. is very much life being addicted to heroin.

There is a HUGE difference: Opioids were sold to doctors and then patients as non-addictive. My own daughter was given a "pain management program" that involved prescriptions of opioids but since her issue was migraines, she used them sporadically and her brain's receptors did not crave them.
If you underwent surgery before about 2014, you were questioned about "levels of pain" and whether you were satisfied with your pain control. You might have even had a morphine pump into your body (I had one after Achilles surgery in 2013 ALONG WITH a quantity of Percocet that I refilled). When I had to have the other Achilles repaired in 2019, I asked about the morphine pump. "We don't do that any more." I was given instructions to take NSAIDS.

No legitimate doctor prescribed heroin or cocaine to a patient becaue they were known to be addictive.

HEN, when it was "suddenly" discovered that opioids WERE addictive to patients in chronic pain, doctors had to cut people off and limit the amounts they could prescribe. There were actually federal reports that had to be maintained by pharmacies to track patient usages. There still is.
Of course, this did not help the patient whose brain receptors were craving continual opioids. The patients were the VICTIMS in all of this, NOT the criminals you want them to be.

Patients who could actually function well under an opioid prescription suddenly sought other sources. Being DEPENDENT on a drug that srved you well and limited your pain for years is not at all like being addicted to heroin or cocaine. In the case of Prince, he was fully functional and dependent on medications to allow him to do what he wanted.

laytonian said:

JudasLChrist said:

I don't understand that statement. I'd say that being addicted to opiates in pill form or what have you. is very much life being addicted to heroin.

There is a HUGE difference: Opioids were sold to doctors and then patients as non-addictive. My own daughter was given a "pain management program" that involved prescriptions of opioids but since her issue was migraines, she used them sporadically and her brain's receptors did not crave them.
If you underwent surgery before about 2014, you were questioned about "levels of pain" and whether you were satisfied with your pain control. You might have even had a morphine pump into your body (I had one after Achilles surgery in 2013 ALONG WITH a quantity of Percocet that I refilled). When I had to have the other Achilles repaired in 2019, I asked about the morphine pump. "We don't do that any more." I was given instructions to take NSAIDS.

No legitimate doctor prescribed heroin or cocaine to a patient becaue they were known to be addictive.

HEN, when it was "suddenly" discovered that opioids WERE addictive to patients in chronic pain, doctors had to cut people off and limit the amounts they could prescribe. There were actually federal reports that had to be maintained by pharmacies to track patient usages. There still is.
Of course, this did not help the patient whose brain receptors were craving continual opioids. The patients were the VICTIMS in all of this, NOT the criminals you want them to be.

Patients who could actually function well under an opioid prescription suddenly sought other sources. Being DEPENDENT on a drug that srved you well and limited your pain for years is not at all like being addicted to heroin or cocaine. In the case of Prince, he was fully functional and dependent on medications to allow him to do what he wanted.

I'm reacting to the way people are building up a different class system depending on semiotic differences in addiction. My point is that once someone is addicted to opiates, there isn't much difference in the nature of addiction. I'm not interested in the stigma people bring to all this, and I wish people would stop making excuses and just see things for what they are/were. Prince was a victim of opiate addiction at a time when addiction to opiates were and are now a major public health crisis.

JudasLChrist said:

laytonian said:

There is a HUGE difference: Opioids were sold to doctors and then patients as non-addictive. My own daughter was given a "pain management program" that involved prescriptions of opioids but since her issue was migraines, she used them sporadically and her brain's receptors did not crave them.
If you underwent surgery before about 2014, you were questioned about "levels of pain" and whether you were satisfied with your pain control. You might have even had a morphine pump into your body (I had one after Achilles surgery in 2013 ALONG WITH a quantity of Percocet that I refilled). When I had to have the other Achilles repaired in 2019, I asked about the morphine pump. "We don't do that any more." I was given instructions to take NSAIDS.

No legitimate doctor prescribed heroin or cocaine to a patient becaue they were known to be addictive.

HEN, when it was "suddenly" discovered that opioids WERE addictive to patients in chronic pain, doctors had to cut people off and limit the amounts they could prescribe. There were actually federal reports that had to be maintained by pharmacies to track patient usages. There still is.
Of course, this did not help the patient whose brain receptors were craving continual opioids. The patients were the VICTIMS in all of this, NOT the criminals you want them to be.

Patients who could actually function well under an opioid prescription suddenly sought other sources. Being DEPENDENT on a drug that srved you well and limited your pain for years is not at all like being addicted to heroin or cocaine. In the case of Prince, he was fully functional and dependent on medications to allow him to do what he wanted.

I'm reacting to the way people are building up a different class system depending on semiotic differences in addiction. My point is that once someone is addicted to opiates, there isn't much difference in the nature of addiction. I'm not interested in the stigma people bring to all this, and I wish people would stop making excuses and just see things for what they are/were. Prince was a victim of opiate addiction at a time when addiction to opiates were and are now a major public health crisis.

.

There's a difference between being addicted to heroin and being addicted to codeine. In both cases, you have a problem with addiction, yes, but the substance you're addicted to tells something important about the nature of your addiction, in my opinion. And, yes, some addictions are more severe than others. So, I'm not really putting these substances in "classes", but more on a continuum. Nuance is important.

laytonian said:

muleFunk said:

If you followed the investigation and not the tabloids you would know the facts instead of the bullshit that Toure puts in the book.

Prince didn't die because of a drug addiction.

Prince died because parties unknown switched counterfeit Vicodin tablets for real medications. The fact the doctor gave Prince prescriptions for pain killers the day before his death shows that he didn't have a red flag on his name for meds. He also told people close to him that he wanted to know what was wrong with him.

We also know from the blood work that no Fentanyl was in his blood stream prior to April 21st.

To this day the origin of the Bayer and Alieve contents remain a mystery and those counterfeit Vicodin pills have an unknown press signature and we still have not seen it again.

ALL the pills looked identical. He was told by the hospital pharmacist in Moline that the drugs he had taken were Percocet (but that pharmacist did no testing nor did s/he keep those pills).

The prescription from Dr S was likely his own way of looking at the pills and judging their validity himself. REMEMBER, he blamed his incident on the plane on the narcan that he was given (read the damned inestigation with an open mind).i

It was luck of the draw that killed him. He likely had a near-death experience on April 7th.

NO ONE purposely killed Prince. He died because the medical establishment suddenly decided that "opioids are bad" and quit letting people have decent dosages. That meant they went seeking drugs from shady sources.
No one is going to target an aging rock star whose last album sold only 37,000. NO ONE is stupid enough to think they would profit from his death. And in fact, no one really has except the estate tax authorities in Minnesota and the IRS.

I stand by what I said above.

olb99 said:

JudasLChrist said:

I'm reacting to the way people are building up a different class system depending on semiotic differences in addiction. My point is that once someone is addicted to opiates, there isn't much difference in the nature of addiction. I'm not interested in the stigma people bring to all this, and I wish people would stop making excuses and just see things for what they are/were. Prince was a victim of opiate addiction at a time when addiction to opiates were and are now a major public health crisis.

.

There's a difference between being addicted to heroin and being addicted to codeine. In both cases, you have a problem with addiction, yes, but the substance you're addicted to tells something important about the nature of your addiction, in my opinion. And, yes, some addictions are more severe than others. So, I'm not really putting these substances in "classes", but more on a continuum. Nuance is important.

The class I'm talking about is social. Prince had a serious addiction. It killed him. There's not a difference between that and other serious addictions. I get frustrated reading the way people seem interested in protecting his reputation. Ie: He was an addict, but not one of 'those' kinds of addicts. This is hogwash. We can leave the stigma of addiction behind when we talk about this stuff.

JudasLChrist said:

olb99 said:

.

There's a difference between being addicted to heroin and being addicted to codeine. In both cases, you have a problem with addiction, yes, but the substance you're addicted to tells something important about the nature of your addiction, in my opinion. And, yes, some addictions are more severe than others. So, I'm not really putting these substances in "classes", but more on a continuum. Nuance is important.

The class I'm talking about is social. Prince had a serious addiction. It killed him. There's not a difference between that and other serious addictions. I get frustrated reading the way people seem interested in protecting his reputation. Ie: He was an addict, but not one of 'those' kinds of addicts. This is hogwash. We can leave the stigma of addiction behind when we talk about this stuff.

.

I see what you mean.

.

At the same time, addiction was only an indirect cause for his death. The direct cause was fake pills.

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The only thing i like abouth tis article is this :

"(...) While nothing about Prince was conventional, from his savant-like talent to a lifestyle that shut out everything but making music, in the end, the tragic manner of his death was the most normal thing about him.

“He wasn’t doing drugs like a hedonistic rock star,” Touré wrote. “He was doing drugs like so many working-class Americans who need pills to get breaking-down bodies through the workday so they can show up for the people who rely on them.”

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I kinda agree with that.

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Vannormal said:

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The only thing i like abouth tis article is this :

"(...) While nothing about Prince was conventional, from his savant-like talent to a lifestyle that shut out everything but making music, in the end, the tragic manner of his death was the most normal thing about him.

“He wasn’t doing drugs like a hedonistic rock star,” Touré wrote. “He was doing drugs like so many working-class Americans who need pills to get breaking-down bodies through the workday so they can show up for the people who rely on them.”

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I kinda agree with that.

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Whatever your thoughts on Toure's book this has to be noted as a fair & probably very accurate analysis.

I saw an interview recently with Toure...where he was reporting some everyday fact about Prince that every fan knew. He made it sound as if he had uncovered some great secret that only he knew...he is such a bull -sh*ter.

DonRants said:

I saw an interview recently with Toure...where he was reporting some everyday fact about Prince that every fan knew. He made it sound as if he had uncovered some great secret that only he knew...he is such a bull -sh*ter.

Wonder how much info he has gotten from the org?

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Publically bashing of those who bring information to us, i will never get it.

Even if the information is wrong or right.

Actually none of us is seemingly willing to do the kind of research done by those who are willing to write a book or article.

It remains unconstructive and uninformative, irrelevant even.

Read the book first and formost.

Even the worst of books deserve that, if it is in your interest field

Only then you will know.

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Vannormal said:

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Publically bashing of those who bring information to us, i will never get it.

Even if the information is wrong or right.

Actually none of us is seemingly willing to do the kind of research done by those who are willing to write a book or article.

It remains unconstructive and uninformative, irrelevant even.

Read the book first and formost.

Even the worst of books deserve that, if it is in your interest field

Only then you will know.

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I don't know if you are referring to my post, but I could not disagree with you more. I think you have to question who these authors are and what are their motives for writing. I recently saw a Ted Talk where a professor said 70 % of all writing on the Black Panter Party was done by the FBI...do you think that had an influence on the negativeand false perception folks have had for so long about the BPP??

.

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Another example, Toure was one of Michael Jackson's most severe critics while he was alive...as soon as MJ died, and the public became more pro-Michael, he suddenly became MJs biggest supporter. I don't need to read his book to know he is a self-serving whats-it-nots-it. He already proved it.

.

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Here is the interview I was referrencing..according to Toure nobody knew why Prince's dad kicked him out of the house..really?? I thought everyone and their mother knew it was because he was bringing girls home. Anyway here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/w...3y_AOqnm8w

olb99 said:

LoveGalore said:

olb99 said:

.

I see what you mean.

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At the same time, addiction was only an indirect cause for his death. The direct cause was fake pills.

No, addiction was the antecedent. He wouldn't have had the need to procure fake pills if he wasn't addicted to pain medication in the first place. And how you correctly address that is by doing more than just throwing pain meds at, by then, chronic pain.

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I was just saying that you don't necessarily die from addiction. If Prince hadn't ingested those fake pills, he would have probably lived for many more years. And I certainly don't disagree that what he did (i.e. not seeing doctors, etc.) was optimal. It wasn't.

olb99 said:

It wasn't.

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That is at the core of the whole situation.

Wheter you look at Prince's death, the estate, PP, releases: it is all sub-optimal.

DonRants said:

Vannormal said:

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Publically bashing of those who bring information to us, i will never get it.

Even if the information is wrong or right.

Actually none of us is seemingly willing to do the kind of research done by those who are willing to write a book or article.

It remains unconstructive and uninformative, irrelevant even.

Read the book first and formost.

Even the worst of books deserve that, if it is in your interest field

Only then you will know.

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I don't know if you are referring to my post, but I could not disagree with you more. I think you have to question who these authors are and what are their motives for writing. I recently saw a Ted Talk where a professor said 70 % of all writing on the Black Panter Party was done by the FBI...do you think that had an influence on the negativeand false perception folks have had for so long about the BPP??

.

.

Another example, Toure was one of Michael Jackson's most severe critics while he was alive...as soon as MJ died, and the public became more pro-Michael, he suddenly became MJs biggest supporter. I don't need to read his book to know he is a self-serving whats-it-nots-it. He already proved it.

.

.

Here is the interview I was referrencing..according to Toure nobody knew why Prince's dad kicked him out of the house..really?? I thought everyone and their mother knew it was because he was bringing girls home. Anyway here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/w...3y_AOqnm8w

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No I haven't read your post yet (will do that ater this).

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I stand by my undivided objective opinion on this.

(IMHO) first read, think, inform, check, and then try to form a well-founded opinion.

But don't necessarily immediately try to claim something in public where you demand a truth from others with the same interest.

Or you have to indicate clearly it is your own (humble) opinion.

Basically just for the sake of the so much needed peace in this divided .org,

where we all try to be Prince fans.

And this is my general idea for all of us.

So not addressed to you personaly.

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