jdcxc said:

lurker316 said:

Why would Brownmark get credit for Kiss? Because he was producing Mazzarati? Even so, I thought David Z was the one who shaped the song for Mazarrati, not Brownmark?

Is it any wonder why Prince axed the Revolution...all the whining, angleing and $$$ tensions must have been stressful.

Exactly. The Revolution apparently in 1986 was making $800 a week, each.
So was I (managing a department at an Air Force base). But I wasn't on call 24/7.

BUT...wanting a raise from $800 a week ($41,600/year) to ONE MILLION A YEAR EACH is a bit much.
Sure, Prince had big bank but he also was building Paisley, paying all those studio sessions, etc.

Then, along with Matt, Bobby, Lisa, and Wendy wanting the million/year, everyone else in the "Counter Revolution" expanded band would have been demanding that.

By that time, the accountants and managers were making the decisions. I don't understand why they all couldn't have been given a fat raise. But a million?

laytonian said:

lurker316 said:

Bighead said:

Very reactive comment there, snowflake. WTF does Drake have to do with Prince and the Revolution, is what that was about

You stated that most of the general public prefers Prince's '80s music, which you believe is a sign that it's better than what came after. His point about Drake is that the general public's taste in music is not a good judge of the quality of music. In other words, the fact that Prince's music connected with more people in the '80s doesn't, in and of itself, mean it's necessarily better.

Not better. More popular. There's a big difference

Bighead said:

Bighead said:

lurker316 said:

You stated that most of the general public prefers Prince's '80s music, which you believe is a sign that it's better than what came after. His point about Drake is that the general public's taste in music is not a good judge of the quality of music. In other words, the fact that Prince's music connected with more people in the '80s doesn't, in and of itself, mean it's necessarily better.

Not better. More popular. There's a big difference

I know the difference. But you stated in your post that his '80s music was better, not simply more popular.

Specifically, you said his post 1980s music "was still good music, it just wasn't great." Great is a masure of quality. Hence, you were argying that his '80s was better than what came afterwards.

You also said his '80s music "remained what most people think of as Prince's best era." Note your use of the word best.

LoveGalore said:

Bighead said:

Not better. More popular. There's a big difference

You're getting warmer. Now read the post where you indicated people thought it was his "best." SnOwFLaKe.

Well, snowflake, like it or not people think its better. Doesn't have to be your opinion. I personally don't think it's his best, but I can see it's his most popular.

[Edited 7/4/21 18:04pm]

lurker316 said:

Bighead said:

Not better. More popular. There's a big difference

I know the difference. But you stated in your post that his '80s music was better, not simply more popular.

Specifically, you said his post 1980s music "was still good music, it just wasn't great." Great is a masure of quality. Hence, you were argying that his '80s was better than what came afterwards.

You also said his '80s music "remained what most people think of as Prince's best era." Note your use of the word best.

and I don't walk it back. Most people think of it as his best era. Which is why his best selling, streaming and discussed era is 1999-Sign o the times. We as Prince fans know there are decades worth of music, and we listen to all that music, but the casual music fan will only recognize songs from this era.

Just like for me and most people that would even know, Frank Sinatra only sang one song. New york, New York, and nothing else.

And Judy Garland only sang somewhere over the rainbow...

[Edited 7/4/21 18:03pm]

[Edited 7/4/21 18:05pm]

So moving on from this "best =/= successful" back and forth, what do people think about this book as a whole - is the content and the studio sessions being the template for the narrative told throughout, as succesful as the first one? I have been eagarly waiting my copy to arrive via mail

ForceofNature said:

Bighead said:

and I don't walk it back. Most people think of it as his best era. Which is why his best selling, streaming and discussed era is 1999-Sign o the times. We as Prince fans know there are decades worth of music, and we listen to all that music, but the casual music fan will only recognize songs from this era.

Just like for me and most people that would even know, Frank Sinatra only sang one song. New york, New York, and nothing else.

And Judy Garland only sang somewhere over the rainbow...

[Edited 7/4/21 18:03pm]

[Edited 7/4/21 18:05pm]

Huh? But you did try walking it back. You wrote: "Not better. More popular. There's a big difference."

Go back, re-read what you wrote, and try to follow your line of argument. Each of your post reflexively disagrees with people, but you fail to take into account things you'd previously written. Consequently, you're being inconsistent and contradicting yourself. First you say his '80s music was better, then you deny saying it was better, and now you're back to inisting it was indeed better.

laytonian said:

jdcxc said:

Is it any wonder why Prince axed the Revolution...all the whining, angleing and $$$ tensions must have been stressful.

Exactly. The Revolution apparently in 1986 was making $800 a week, each.
So was I (managing a department at an Air Force base). But I wasn't on call 24/7.

BUT...wanting a raise from $800 a week ($41,600/year) to ONE MILLION A YEAR EACH is a bit much.
Sure, Prince had big bank but he also was building Paisley, paying all those studio sessions, etc.

Then, along with Matt, Bobby, Lisa, and Wendy wanting the million/year, everyone else in the "Counter Revolution" expanded band would have been demanding that.

By that time, the accountants and managers were making the decisions. I don't understand why they all couldn't have been given a fat raise. But a million?

I dont begrudge the Revolution in trying to get paid (ther strategy sucked), but there is a reason why backing bands never stay together for the long haul...too many egos, pressures, ulterior motives. Cold Bottomline Truth...without the singular genius of Prince, W&L prolly wudnt b millionaires now and the rest of the band wud be unknown session players. Btw- I love their contributions to his sound and musical brain...same for Rhonda, Neto, Blackwell, Sheila, Cymone, Dez, Ida...

PJMcGee said:

The new book is larger. Height = 23.83 versus 22.86 Width = 16.21 versus 16 Thickness = 4.9 versus 3.81 So roughly, 1 cm taller, slightly wider, 1 cm thicker.

It must be the different printing houses. Mine are exactly the same height and depth, but the new one is obviously thicker.

piemel said:

What happened to all those TDK c60 and c90 tapes they would make after everybody studio session? Are some of these in the vault or were they just leaving the studio and ‘lost’? Was there an audit trail for those tapes?

🥾 Boots!

My question was how expensive Prince's studio time must've been...WB prolly took out big bank from his advances.

Just finished the book. Man, what a ride. And what an achievement! Duane deserves all the credit for his Herculean efforts. Any of you who are complaining about the staggering amount of info and insight he provided... I don't know what to say. You're broken, sad people.

.

One thing that really surprised me was just how dismissive Eric Leeds was of the songs he was contributing to. He wasn't necessarily mean, but he made it clear that, other than the Madhouse stuff, he was just doing a job. Prince said "put some horn here", so he did it, went home, and cashed his checks. He seems to have no emotional attachment to the classic music he was a part of.

.

And speaking of checks... I was blown away by how little Prince was paying his band members. I know a lot of you are looking for any reason to bash Wendy & Lisa, but if Prince was paying them $800 a week during the dizzying financial heights of the "Purple Rain" days, then maybe you should redirect some of that armchair hatred towards Prince.

GiggityGoo said:

Just finished the book. Man, what a ride. And what an achievement! Duane deserves all the credit for his Herculean efforts. Any of you who are complaining about the staggering amount of info and insight he provided... I don't know what to say. You're broken, sad people.

.

One thing that really surprised me was just how dismissive Eric Leeds was of the songs he was contributing to. He wasn't necessarily mean, but he made it clear that, other than the Madhouse stuff, he was just doing a job. Prince said "put some horn here", so he did it, went home, and cashed his checks. He seems to have no emotional attachment to the classic music he was a part of.

.

And speaking of checks... I was blown away by how little Prince was paying his band members. I know a lot of you are looking for any reason to bash Wendy & Lisa, but if Prince was paying them $800 a week during the dizzying financial heights of the "Purple Rain" days, then maybe you should redirect some of that armchair hatred towards Prince.

This is too simplistic. To understand the financial dynamics we need to see the whole picture. Prince's overhead mustve been outrageous. As an employee himself, HE was underpaid. Paying a BACKING band $2 Million a year does not seem outrageous...pre-PR. Yes, they were correct in renegotiating following the success of PR, but they overvalued their worth. And no bashing of W&L here, but a honest critique of their interviews and overstated importance to Prince's musical legacy is not unfair. And W&L were able to parlay their Prince experience into millions.

GiggityGoo said:

One thing that really surprised me was just how dismissive Eric Leeds was of the songs he was contributing to. He wasn't necessarily mean, but he made it clear that, other than the Madhouse stuff, he was just doing a job. Prince said "put some horn here", so he did it, went home, and cashed his checks. He seems to have no emotional attachment to the classic music he was a part of.

Eric has always been forthright in previous interviews this way He does praise stuff like The Flesh jams, Large Room, Power Fantastic, which is logical given that they are more freeform, collaborative. Some band members, especially later on, not in this book, continually give the "it's all good" vague wishy-washy answers that come off as fake and evasive - perhaps this was to do with Prince still being alive, we'll have to see how loose their tongues are in the coming years. Back to this book - even when being critical of something specific, everyone interviewed here shows genuine reverence and respect for Prince's singular and unique talent and drive. After all this time and whatever water has gone under bridge, these people loved him.

.

.

GiggityGoo said:

And speaking of checks... I was blown away by how little Prince was paying his band members. I know a lot of you are looking for any reason to bash Wendy & Lisa, but if Prince was paying them $800 a week during the dizzying financial heights of the "Purple Rain" days, then maybe you should redirect some of that armchair hatred towards Prince.

As if!

.

.

[Edited 7/10/21 9:27am]

LoveGalore said:

The only thing I am surprised about so far is that there isn't more unknown music listed.

Well, the Sunset Sound era has been written about before. It's the most well-documented era of Prince's recording history. Writers choose this era because information about it is available from the studio. Susan Rogers and Eric Leeds kept notes. Other eras are less documented, so books about 1981-1982 or 1987-1988 might reveal more songs that were previously unknown.

NouveauDance said:

GiggityGoo said:

One thing that really surprised me was just how dismissive Eric Leeds was of the songs he was contributing to. He wasn't necessarily mean, but he made it clear that, other than the Madhouse stuff, he was just doing a job. Prince said "put some horn here", so he did it, went home, and cashed his checks. He seems to have no emotional attachment to the classic music he was a part of.

Eric has always been forthright in previous interviews this way He does praise stuff like The Flesh jams, Large Room, Power Fantastic, which is logical given that they are more freeform, collaborative. Some band members, especially later on, not in this book, continually give the "it's all good" vague wishy-washy answers that come off as fake and evasive - perhaps this was to do with Prince still being alive, we'll have to see how loose their tongues are in the coming years. Back to this book - even when being critical of something specific, everyone interviewed here shows genuine reverence and respect for Prince's singular and unique talent and drive. After all this time and whatever water has gone under bridge, these people loved him.

.

.

GiggityGoo said:

And speaking of checks... I was blown away by how little Prince was paying his band members. I know a lot of you are looking for any reason to bash Wendy & Lisa, but if Prince was paying them $800 a week during the dizzying financial heights of the "Purple Rain" days, then maybe you should redirect some of that armchair hatred towards Prince.

As if!

.

.

[Edited 7/10/21 9:27am]

Eric has always had a jazz purist and elitist outlook, but i have heard him speak (grudgingly) of Prince's singular talent.

jdcxc said:

GiggityGoo said:

One thing that really surprised me was just how dismissive Eric Leeds was of the songs he was contributing to.
He wasn't necessarily mean, but he made it clear that, other than the Madhouse stuff, he was just doing a job.
Prince said "put some horn here", so he did it, went home, and cashed his checks.
He seems to have no emotional attachment to the classic music he was a part of.

I found it fascinating how much he seemed to struggle with the extended mix of Kiss.

lurker316 said:

VaultCurator said:

Yeah. Matt confirmed the Rio story in his own words.

I'm pretty sure it's this interview where I heard him tell that story. Can't remember if he spoke about it in part one or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGHTGWIzy8 (part one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFhfEXSYsmE (part two)

I remember him talking about how he was disapointed since he'd been in the band for so long.

Thanks for those links. The interview is long but always fascinating. It seemed like the interview was trying to give Matt credit for being more involved with the albums than he actually was. Matt eventually went through, album-by-album, and explained how little he contributed:

- Dirty Mind: co-wrote Dirty Mind and soloed on Head
- Controversy: played with the rest of the band on Jack U Off
- Purple Rain: played with the rest of the band on I Would Die 4 U, Baby I'm a Star and Purple Rain
- Sign O' the Times: co-wrote and play on It's Gonna be a Beautiful Night.

He specifically says he didn't play on 1999, Around the World in a Day, Parade or Lovesexy. He doesn't explicitly say so, but the implication is he didn't play on Batman or Graffiti Bridge either.

No surprise, obviously, but it reinforces the idea that Wendy and Lisa were the only Revolution members who significantly contributed, not just in playing isntruments but it wring, mixing and producing.

Seems like Brownmark and Bobby Z may have contributed even less than Matt? They never got any song writing credits or solos, did they?

Makes not a great deal of sense. He would clearly have to have played on Let's Go Crazy and Computer Blue; America and The Ladder; basic tracks to Mountains (album), extended segment of Mountains 12", likely Girls & Boys and, possibly but unlikely Love or $ and Alexa de Paris; Eye No; possibly Trust.

billymeade said:

I found it fascinating how much he seemed to struggle with the extended mix of Kiss.

Love the 12" but it is a completely different song than the single.
He also never seemed to get the arrangement right in concert either. The song is so uniquely structured (perfect pop song imo) that it doesnt always translate out of the studio.

rlittler81 said:

Started reading the ebook a few days ago, just got to the part where the Revolution record Empty Room.

It always boggles my mind to think a few weeks after he finished the Purple Rain tour he started recording Parade, ATWIAD was his only 80's album not to get a full tour to promote it so it sort of got lost between the two albums. Some of the info about the end of the Purple Rain tour is interesting. He really did not stop working at this time!

Your post got me thinking. I believe that if Warner Bros kept up with his output, releasing the songs/albums on the schedule that P would've wanted to, there would have been NO competition for him in the pop music world. Everybody would've seen that they were living during the same time period as a modern genius and he deserved all the respect in the world.

jdcxc said:

billymeade said:

I found it fascinating how much he seemed to struggle with the extended mix of Kiss.

Love the 12" but it is a completely different song than the single.
He also never seemed to get the arrangement right in concert either. The song is so uniquely structured (perfect pop song imo) that it doesnt always translate out of the studio.

Towards the end he seemed to have realized this and got it right live by having half of it sampled. It was the exception that proved the rule with his life stuff as far as i'm concerned.

rlittler81 said:

Started reading the ebook a few days ago, just got to the part where the Revolution record Empty Room.

It always boggles my mind to think a few weeks after he finished the Purple Rain tour he started recording Parade, ATWIAD was his only 80's album not to get a full tour to promote it so it sort of got lost between the two albums. Some of the info about the end of the Purple Rain tour is interesting. He really did not stop working at this time!

.

It's funny you bring this up... I was really looking forward to reading about the recording of all the ATWIAD songs, but as I got deeper into the 1985 section, it seems like he was working on Parade songs, and then suddenly... BOOM! ATWIAD was released.

.

I was so confused! But then I went back and flipped through the previous book, and realized he'd recorded most everything while Purple Rain was still burning up the charts!

.

And then when I got further into the book, it becomes clear that pretty much every note of SOTT was recorded while he was making a movie, touring, and putting together an entirely new band! Amazing!

.

I can't wait to read the next book, to see how things shake out between The Black Album and Lovesexy.

GiggityGoo said:

.

I can't wait to read the next book, to see how things shake out between The Black Album and Lovesexy.

Same here, hopefully he does 87-89, does the last 3 years and really shows what was going on and whatever songs we don't know exist. I can't wait to hear about the recording of The Line, and hearing about the Lovesexy tour, as well as the original Rave.

So did I read it right that the song I thought was 9 to 5 People is actually Call The Wild and was produced in 85 and inspired by Led Zeppelin? If so, boy did I have that one wrong...I thought it was done around the Lovesexy era.

I think that song is just scorching hot...one of the best unreleased tracks.

jdcxc said:

billymeade said:

I found it fascinating how much he seemed to struggle with the extended mix of Kiss.

Love the 12" but it is a completely different song than the single.
He also never seemed to get the arrangement right in concert either. The song is so uniquely structured (perfect pop song imo) that it doesnt always translate out of the studio.

Probably because the parts of Kiss that make it so distinct were dreamed up by someone else. Prince had a hard time ever stepping in someone else's shoes.