lurker316 said:

This strikes me as Prince fans wanting more ammunition to show Prince was ahead of the curb of other pop starts: "Heck, Prince was doing rap back in '82!"

Johnny Guitar Watson ~ Telephone Bill (1980)

Millie Jackson ~ I Had To Say It (1980)

Teena Marie ~ Square Biz (1980)

Blondie ~ Rapture (1981)

Modern Romance ~ Queen Of The Rapping Scene (1981)

Wham! ~ Wham! Rap / Young Guns (1982)

Stevie Wonder ~ Do I Do (1982)

ufoclub said:

But the idea of "rapping" vocal goes way back. like 30's or 40's right?

There's a lot of blues/country/R&B songs that contain rapping or proto-rap before recorded hip hop was officially a thing in 1979. You could even say square dance cadence is rapping.

onlyforaminute said:

Imagine being the researcher trying to put together a documentary.

.....and it's taking several.

sexton said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Headline isn't really accurate to what's in the article.

Wendy says she played Fight the Power for him, and it had an impact on him.

Prince would have heard Sugar Hill Gang and White Lines, and the funk tracks before those songs like Fatback Band, so he'd heard Hip Hop. Plus Controversy was in 1981 and that influenced hip hop if anything. But that doesn't mean he'd heard hip hop in a way that felt relevant to the music he made.

Fight the Power was an explosion for a lot of musicians. Politics were mostly out of style. We know Prince liked it and liked Chuck D (and put him on a track in 99).

Prince also knew Spike Lee already. Prince had seen She's Gotta Have It, and flew him out during Grafitti Bridge. He's mentioned in the School Daze diaries because they both used the Oompa Loomba song.

So who played it for him isn't important, it wasn't introducing him to Hip Hop and all this can be true and Wendy's story can still have happened.

This post is telling the truth.

Nowhere in the article do Wendy and Lisa say they "introduced Prince to hip hop". The writer of the article doesn't even say it.

And Wendy and Lisa never say that they introduced Prince to the song "Fight the Power" either. Wendy only says that she played it for him during a trip to Minneapolis after the band broke up (probably when Prince remixed their song "Lolly Lolly" for single release so they were indeed working together at the time) and then described his reaction. That's it.

Everything else is speculation by the original poster and not to be believed.

Thank you.
The cottage industry of twisting statements is in full force.

margi said:

Hamad said:

I love Lisa & Wendy, but man they’re so relentless with the bullshit factory. They also claimed they introduced him to Joni Mitchell which really blows my mind This has always been the conversation whenever they interview them and I don’t know why they the feel need for it, “we introduced Prince to [fill in the blank]”,,,,,um, ok. [Edited 6/4/21 17:21pm]

Joni Mitchell in an interview said that Prince wrote fan mail to her regularly and unfortunately they were lost or destroyed before he was famous. She said she eventually recognised this young man in the audience regularly front and centre, due to his large eyes that never left her during the concert. This was long before he met W&L.

They have literally never claimed that they introduced him to Joni Mitchell. Lisa has said that Joni Mitchell was a musician they bonded over when they first met.

JudasLChrist said:

margi said:

Joni Mitchell in an interview said that Prince wrote fan mail to her regularly and unfortunately they were lost or destroyed before he was famous. She said she eventually recognised this young man in the audience regularly front and centre, due to his large eyes that never left her during the concert. This was long before he met W&L.

They have literally never claimed that they introduced him to Joni Mitchell. Lisa has said that Joni Mitchell was a musician they bonded over when they first met.

Yeah exactly, most of the bashing I see Wendy and Lisa get on these threads a lot of times are people either misinterpreting what they say or flat out making things up that they never said/claimed.

[Edited 6/9/21 23:54pm]

ForceofNature said:

JudasLChrist said:

They have literally never claimed that they introduced him to Joni Mitchell. Lisa has said that Joni Mitchell was a musician they bonded over when they first met.

Yeah exactly, most of the bashing I see Wendy and Lisa get on these threads a lot of times are people either misinterpreting what they say or flat out making things up that they never said/claimed.

[Edited 6/9/21 23:54pm]

Yes, (some) people have a complete lack of generosity when it come to interpreting the things W&L say. Projections and misinterpretations all over the place.

HamsterHuey said:

Hamad said:

They also claimed they introduced him to Joni Mitchell which really blows my mind

They worked with Joni. Maybe they meant they've introduced her to him in person. I love how people call W&L out, while they were the only ones to call Prince's BS publicly while he was still alive. I think it's only natural that more stories come to light, now people are documenting Prince's life, W&L do not always have a hand in how reporters shape their stories. Or how they are perceived. And to be calling their info BS, I always give people the benefit of the doubt, as they were there, with Prince. All these couch critics calling people out were not there.

-

I fully agree on this.

They knew Joni personally. Yes Prince was a super fan of Joni, but never personally met her before that.

Want to know more about Joni & Prince info ?

Check this :

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/joni-mitchell-and-prince.766692/

-

Hamad said:

I love Lisa & Wendy, but man they’re so relentless with the bullshit factory. They also claimed they introduced him to Joni Mitchell which really blows my mind This has always been the conversation whenever they interview them and I don’t know why they the feel need for it, “we introduced Prince to [fill in the blank]”,,,,,um, ok. [Edited 6/4/21 17:21pm]

-

No they're not.

They were there.

Take it for what it's worth.

We were not there.

-

All of Prince's bandmates, collaborators, engineers, etc, introduced him to something, if not a lot.

It is easy to check. A lot of it is already being said.

W&L & Susannah for some time bassicaly formed a quartet/close family with Prince in the lives they lived.

That's a fact.

And while you're young (Prince in his twenties), everyone is soaking everything up that crosses your path.

Being it good or bad.

Thing with Prince is, we never know anything for sure, never.

We have the stories that are now coming to surface.

Should we take them for the real new truth imediatly?

No, not exactly right away.

But they are importnat new elements to considder, to create that mystious purple puzzle that Pirnce still is up to this day.

It's about time most fans here realise that he was also a fraud, a liar, a thief, full of doubts and thus a perfectly normal human being - with utterly special skills and abilities on so many levels, often called too many times as 'genius'.

His so called geniality shouldn't always be used to make us believe he had the truth to all things Prince.

Let the strories come to surface.

Don't judge instantly with a bunch of facts.

Wait and see.

Truths are always slow.

-

LoveGalore said:

Lisa should stop doing interviews with Wendy. The Melvoins make everything look absurd and bullshit.

-

Another exmple of how not to be so quickly opinionated for no real reason.

-

JudasLChrist said:

Hamad said:

No, they actually meant they introduced her music to him. Weird. I don’t think people “hate” W&L per se, in fact I’d argue that that there’re more people who are fans than not - I know I’m infatuated with their music - what I think people are catching up on is their constant history revisionism and how trash they come across as human beings (especially Wendy), and I think that’s what they hate. Ever-since he died, I’ve been noticing a lot of passive-aggressiveness, condescension, self-inflation and total disregard to his music before and after they came, ya know, your typical “Karen” behaviour with the micro aggression overtones. I can’t always blame reporters for how they come across because a lot of times their true feelings get documented without any reporters curating their words (video interviews etc). It’s not enough for them that they were part of greatness, they had to center themselves (i.e. center whiteness) in everything he did when they were part of his roost. You’d be hard pressed to see Sonny T or Michael Bland talk about P’s music before & after they came the same way those girls did. As for calling Prince out on his BS while he was alive - which he was no saint by any stretch of the word - I’d argue that he probably matched their energy and called them out on theirs too, they’re not saints either.

I think you are being reactionary. W&L are simply trying to talk about their musical relationship to Prince. The article doesn't state that they introduced hom to hip hop, nor do they make that claim. I don't believe they say they introduced him to Joni Mitchell's music, either. Lisa has said that Joni is one of the things they bonded over when they met.

Minnesota was a sheltered place compared to much of the country at the time. Wendy and L were the children of very reknown studio musicians, and Eric went to music school and was the younger brother to James Brown's manager, and he had a music career before Prince. I'm sure there's much they showed young Prince that he hadn't necessarily been familiar with before.

This article merely states that they played Public Enemy for him the first time. That's believable and shouldn't send people into a tizzy.

-

100 % this.

I fully agree.

-

And to Hamad; sure W&L and all the rest aren't saints either. Obviously.

Mind all possible agenda's, plus a bit of everything like repercussions, grudge, the gay thing, alienity, vengeance, disappointment, misunderstandings, recognision, sourness... it can/could all be be small reasons for telling these stories.

But besides all that there is also loads of love, appreciation and thankfulness for being there when it all happened.

Count that too.

-

I wonder what really bothered Bobby Z and Matt fink about Prince for instance ?

From Brownmakr we already know more.

Just sayin'.

-

[Edited 6/11/21 8:17am]

If you read the whole article, you can see it. Prince did a diss track on rappers on the black album and some years later he starts rapping, so...maybe its true.
At the end, we dont know right, because nobody of us were there...

nextedition said:

Prince did a diss track on rappers on the black album and some years later he starts rapping, so...maybe its true.

I saw a Kurtis Blow interview a few years ago. He said that when he was touring with R&B/funk acts in the early 1980s, some didn't understand rap. Kurtis also said this about Don Cornelius when he did his 1st appearance on Soul Train. He mentioned that his sound would get cut off sometimes on the tours. It's interesting though that on the New Edition biopic, it had that Kurtis wasn't friendly to them when NE was on a tour with Kurtis & Madonna. Kurtis said that it was not true that he dissed NE on the tour.

Stealth misogyny is my favorite kind of misogyny

Vannormal said:

I have to agree i would like to hear Lisa more then Wendy in interviews...Wendy tends to blow about things that shouldnt be blown about...i do remember Wendy stating that she wanted to be more into Lisa persay as to be inside her mind in a sence ...Lisa is more level headed and down to earth in her interviews..she thinks BEFORE she comments...Wendy does not..Lisa held a phone interview with a reporter and Lisa states "O Wendy just walked in..would you like to speak with her too...(you can hear Wendy in the background saying "no...im good thanks") the reporter stated he could hear them finishing up the supper dishes in the background as well.
[Edited 6/26/21 19:38pm]

Who knows, man. I love The Revolution... They're a part of my Psychedelic Funk/Rock education. The fact is Public Enemy (Chuck + Flav, at least) were on George's Paisley Park LP "The Cinderella Theory" IN 1989, as well as the follow-up "Hey Man...Smell My Finger" in '93. And obviously, they collaborated again. So, maybe it could be true. Prince's stance on Hip-Hop definitely did change around that '89-90 era. And you see what happened after that.

donnyenglish said:

Fight The Power came out in 1989 and everyone black heard it when it came out. Wendy and Lisa were long gone by 1989. Prince was surrounded by black musicians in 1989. It is more likely he heard it from one of them. This shit has to stop.

THIS...Also Prince and Spike Lee were friends back then, and the Do The Right Thing movie trailer had this song playing. Fight the Power was released about 3 weeks before the movie opening. It was on constant rotation on the radio. As they were friends, it's very possible that Prince got an advance screening to the movie as well. This garbage that Prince needed or required to be influenced by two white women who were barely out of their teens when he gave them spots in his band has always been a steaming pile of BS.

uh ^^ Prince Wendy & Lisa were still connected and friends. They + Susannah performed with Prince and the Lovesexy band @ the MET Center shows in 1988 Bobby Z and Jill Jones were there two.
.
Race has nothing to do with it. Most Black Americans 'were not' into rap. Especially those 30s 40s and up.

.
And Prince wasn't surround by Black musicians anymore than in 1982 with those in his band and the Time. Just because someone is African descendant doesn't mean they automatically know all things done by Black folk musically. Anyone watching the tragectory of Prince's camp should know Prince wasn't just sitting around listening to other peoples music, as regular folks might. They were in a non stop flux of recording, concert/aftershow performing, travelling etc by the close of Lovesexy 89 he was already moving to do music for the Batman movie soundtrack, the Graffiti Bridge movie/music(which included working with Morris Day/Jesse Johnson -the Time, Jill Jones music, Sheila E's 4th album, Anna Fantastic, recording with/for Kahoru Kohiruimaki 小比類巻かほる Margie Cox MC Flash recordings Corporate World-the Time, Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic etc

.

My Black uncle called rap a fad, never got into it and never liked rap.

Gladys Knight said she liked rap and Della Reese said she did not like rap music.

.

see reply #92

MickyDolenz said:

nextedition said:

Prince did a diss track on rappers on the black album and some years later he starts rapping, so...maybe its true.

I saw a Kurtis Blow interview a few years ago. He said that when he was touring with R&B/funk acts in the early 1980s, some didn't understand rap. Kurtis also said this about Don Cornelius when he did his 1st appearance on Soul Train. He mentioned that his sound would get cut off sometimes on the tours. It's interesting though that on the New Edition biopic, it had that Kurtis wasn't friendly to them when NE was on a tour with Kurtis & Madonna. Kurtis said that it was not true that he dissed NE on the tour.

I hear Kurtis Blow's "If I Ruled The World" in Prince's "laaa, la, la-la"'s on "Dead On It".

Right from the first listen in '88.

shakalakaboom said:

Stealth misogyny is my favorite kind of misogyny

a lil homophobia and bigotry in there too

lurker316 said:

paraded said:

There's something a little off about the timeline here. Fight the Power was released in 1989, but didn't Wendy and Lisa leave the Revolutoin in 86? Does anyone know if they stayed in close contact throughout the rest of the decade, to the point they listened to music together?

I was going to raise this point as well. I didn't think W&L were spending much time with Prince by the time Fight the Power was released.

Lurker316 and paraded they continued to be friends throught his life.

After the Revolution disbanded, Prince & Wendy performed with the Bangles in late October.

At the Met Center Lovesexy shows 1988, Wendy Susannah and Lisa performed with the band. Bobby Z and Jill Jones were guests. Prince continued as friends with Jonathan until his death and David Coleman until his death too. continued his friendship with Andre and Dez Dickerson too

Prince remixed W&L single Lolly Lolly in 89. There was a performance or two Wendy did with Prince in the mid-late 90s.

He was still seeing Vanity & Susannah into 1990.

Eric Leeds did stuff with Prince here and there in the 90s.
by 1997 in interviews Prince started talking more about the 1980-1986 years and the people in interviews. Gearing up to release the Roadhouse Garden album.
When asked who would be in his dream band(first glimps of an all girl band) he said Lisa Coleman, Wendy and Susannah Melvoin, Rhonda Smith, Cat(Glover) and Marva King

By 2002 he was doing more stuff with Sheila E, Morris Day/Jerome, Wendy & Lisa

They started performing with Prince on shows here and there from 200 - 2007 and did some work on a few Planet Earth songs. Hanging out with them at their studio in California, they hang out at his house in California

nayroo2002 said:

I hear Kurtis Blow's "If I Ruled The World" in Prince's "laaa, la, la-la"'s on "Dead On It".

Right from the first listen in '88.

I think Kurtis is the person that got the King Holiday song started. I have that maxi single. Kurtis is on Sun City too. The Fat Boys, Melle Mel, & Run-DMC are also on both songs. Didn't Prince have something to do with the King Holiday music video?

OldFriends4Sale said:

lurker316 said:

I was going to raise this point as well. I didn't think W&L were spending much time with Prince by the time Fight the Power was released.

Lurker316 and paraded they continued to be friends throught his life.

After the Revolution disbanded, Prince & Wendy performed with the Bangles in late October.

At the Met Center Lovesexy shows 1988, Wendy Susannah and Lisa performed with the band. Bobby Z and Jill Jones were guests. Prince continued as friends with Jonathan until his death and David Coleman until his death too. continued his friendship with Andre and Dez Dickerson too

Prince remixed W&L single Lolly Lolly in 89. There was a performance or two Wendy did with Prince in the mid-late 90s.

He was still seeing Vanity & Susannah into 1990.

Eric Leeds did stuff with Prince here and there in the 90s.
by 1997 in interviews Prince started talking more about the 1980-1986 years and the people in interviews. Gearing up to release the Roadhouse Garden album.
When asked who would be in his dream band(first glimps of an all girl band) he said Lisa Coleman, Wendy and Susannah Melvoin, Rhonda Smith, Cat(Glover) and Marva King

By 2002 he was doing more stuff with Sheila E, Morris Day/Jerome, Wendy & Lisa

They started performing with Prince on shows here and there from 200 - 2007 and did some work on a few Planet Earth songs. Hanging out with them at their studio in California, they hang out at his house in California

Ah -- Thanks for clarifying. I was well aware Wendy & Lisa got back in touch with him much later on, but didn't know about the Bangles performance and Lovesexy guest appearance.

MickyDolenz said:

nayroo2002 said:

I hear Kurtis Blow's "If I Ruled The World" in Prince's "laaa, la, la-la"'s on "Dead On It".

Right from the first listen in '88.

I think Kurtis is the person that got the King Holiday song started. I have that maxi single. Kurtis is on Sun City too. The Fat Boys, Melle Mel, & Run-DMC are also on both songs. Didn't Prince have something to do with the King Holiday music video?

The Many Ways Prince Hono... King, Jr.

Despite excitement around “King Holiday,” the production went over budget, leaving no money left to create a music video. Prince got word of the issue and contacted Blow directly. “Prince said, ‘I’ll pay for it,’” the rapper recalled in a conversation with YouTube channel VladTv. “He paid $90,000 for us to shoot this video. Straight out of his pocket, never asked for it back.” Though Prince did not appear on the song or in its video, he did visit the set of the production he paid for. “Thank you for that video. Thank you for doing that,” Blow recalled saying to Purple One. “He said, ‘No problem. It’s all good. It’s Martin Luther King.’”

SoulAlive said:

MickyDolenz said:

I think Kurtis is the person that got the King Holiday song started. I have that maxi single. Kurtis is on Sun City too. The Fat Boys, Melle Mel, & Run-DMC are also on both songs. Didn't Prince have something to do with the King Holiday music video?

The Many Ways Prince Hono... King, Jr.

Despite excitement around “King Holiday,” the production went over budget, leaving no money left to create a music video. Prince got word of the issue and contacted Blow directly. “Prince said, ‘I’ll pay for it,’” the rapper recalled in a conversation with YouTube channel VladTv. “He paid $90,000 for us to shoot this video. Straight out of his pocket, never asked for it back.” Though Prince did not appear on the song or in its video, he did visit the set of the production he paid for. “Thank you for that video. Thank you for doing that,” Blow recalled saying to Purple One. “He said, ‘No problem. It’s all good. It’s Martin Luther King.’”

So, Prince wasn't disrespecting hiphop, he was just trying to encourage more quality

F w&l, there i said it. They wouldn’t even be a household name without Prince. I don’t dislike them, bu they’re just fn musicians, talented, yes, but still just talented musicians that couldn’t keep up with the man. No one could.

nayroo2002 said:

So, Prince wasn't disrespecting hiphop, he was just trying to encourage more quality

All music is "quality" to somebody.