donnyenglish said:

Fight The Power came out in 1989 and everyone black heard it when it came out. Wendy and Lisa were long gone by 1989. Prince was surrounded by black musicians in 1989. It is more likely he heard it from one of them. This shit has to stop.

It would really help if ya'll read the article before you commented.

jdcxc said:

Hamad said:

Prince is the son of a Jazz combo leader. What do you mean Eric introduced him to jazz/Miles Davis? I’m sick & tired of this “Prince was living under a rock when I found him” narrative these people are trying to push. [Edited 6/4/21 16:41pm]

Exactly. Prince had one of the most encyclopedic musical vocabs of any pop star ever. And PE sampled Prince, I'm sure he was aware of them from jump street.

But his own vocabularly for playing it doesn't mean he knew music like an A & R guy with his ear to the streets.

When you talk about "Rap music isn't music", Public Enemy was what old music heads were talking about half the time. It offended them to hear Funky Drummer and the JB's like that.

Fight the Power converted people because the film made people sit down and listen to the whole thing, and it was a lot more clever. The samples are indistinguishable, people still argue about it. Prince would have heard Rick James, Funky Drummer again, borrowing lyrics from the Isley Brothers... look at the 2 page sample list, it's crazy.... https://www.whosampled.co...r/samples/

PE didn't sample Prince until 1990. Prince is sampling himself by 1989.

(I don't know who the first to sample Prince was... someone made a Take Me With U electro rap in 1984 that had to confuse him. Salt N' Pepa used The Bird.)

lavendardrummachine said:

jdcxc said:

Exactly. Prince had one of the most encyclopedic musical vocabs of any pop star ever. And PE sampled Prince, I'm sure he was aware of them from jump street.

But his own vocabularly for playing it doesn't mean he knew music like an A & R guy with his ear to the streets.

When you talk about "Rap music isn't music", Public Enemy was what old music heads were talking about half the time. It offended them to hear Funky Drummer and the JB's like that.

Fight the Power converted people because the film made people sit down and listen to the whole thing, and it was a lot more clever. The samples are indistinguishable, people still argue about it. Prince would have heard Rick James, Funky Drummer again, borrowing lyrics from the Isley Brothers... look at the 2 page sample list, it's crazy.... https://www.whosampled.co...r/samples/

PE didn't sample Prince until 1990. Prince is sampling himself by 1989.

(I don't know who the first to sample Prince was... someone made a Take Me With U electro rap in 1984 that had to confuse him. Salt N' Pepa used The Bird.)

I was a Public Enemy fan since their beginning and a P fan since 1979. Prince has ALWAYS had his ear to the underground, new sounds and production. And PE was not "underground." They were signed to a major label from Day 1...with a lot of music press. There is no way P, who toured extensively with Black audiences (Zapp, Slick Rick), was not up on ALL Black music trends. He was also a young "urban" artist when Hip Hop blew up (they shared the same Right On covers lol) And the Rick Rubin, Bomb Squad and Flav (also a multi-instrumentalist) were Prince heads...I'm sure there was contact in their circles.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

They prob introduced him to PE PE were hip And w and l were hip Doubt that they introduced him to hip hop as ofc he would have heard it Irresistible bitch anyone? But just cos prince had heard something, doesn't mean he really knew it Eg Eric Leeds introducing him to jazz and miles Davis [Edited 6/4/21 16:31pm]

Prince knew a bit more about hip hop than Wendy and Lisa. And it was Prince who introduced Eric to Miles; but then Eric never said he introduced Prince to Miles, so there's that.

.

Take a listen to Vanity 6, 'If a Girl Answers, Don't Hang Up' (1982):

Vanity 6 - If a girl answ... - YouTube

And listen to Dr. Dre's World Class Wreckin' Cru-House Calls (1987):

Dr Dre-House Calls (1987) - YouTube

...........

Questlove:

Questlove on Prince: At H...lture.com)

.

“I patterned everything in my life after Prince,” he writes, alluding to his childhood. “Unknown to me then, but not unseen or unheard, thanks to magazines, TV, radio, and my secret stash — [Prince] was a guide to me in every way.” The drummer goes on to detail the importance of the Purple One’s tastes, his relationship to hip-hop, and his role as a motivator.”

.

“Think of 1999 again — or rather 1982. It was such a banner year for the use of drum machines, from Arthur Baker to Afrika Bambaataa. Prince’s programming work on 1999 was beyond anything I had ever heard, just as innovative as the best hip-hop producers in the years to come: the Bomb Squad, DJ Premier, Pete Rock, Dr. Dre, A Tribe Called Quest, J Dilla. … Prince was an outlaw. When he was giving interviews on the regular to Cynthia Horner in Right On! magazine, he was telling tall tales left and right. That was hip-hop. He built a crew, a posse, around his look and his sense of style. That was hip-hop. He had beef (with Rick James). He had his own vanity label (Paisley Park). He had parents up in arms over the content of his songs to the point where they had to invent the Parental Advisory warning. Hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop.”

JudasLChrist said:

Hamad said:

No, they actually meant they introduced her music to him. Weird. I don’t think people “hate” W&L per se, in fact I’d argue that that there’re more people who are fans than not - I know I’m infatuated with their music - what I think people are catching up on is their constant history revisionism and how trash they come across as human beings (especially Wendy), and I think that’s what they hate. Ever-since he died, I’ve been noticing a lot of passive-aggressiveness, condescension, self-inflation and total disregard to his music before and after they came, ya know, your typical “Karen” behaviour with the micro aggression overtones. I can’t always blame reporters for how they come across because a lot of times their true feelings get documented without any reporters curating their words (video interviews etc). It’s not enough for them that they were part of greatness, they had to center themselves (i.e. center whiteness) in everything he did when they were part of his roost. You’d be hard pressed to see Sonny T or Michael Bland talk about P’s music before & after they came the same way those girls did. As for calling Prince out on his BS while he was alive - which he was no saint by any stretch of the word - I’d argue that he probably matched their energy and called them out on theirs too, they’re not saints either.

I think you are being reactionary. W&L are simply trying to talk about their musical relationship to Prince. The article doesn't state that they introduced hom to hip hop, nor do they make that claim. I don't believe they say they introduced him to Joni Mitchell's music, either. Lisa has said that Joni is one of the things they bonded over when they met.

Minnesota was a sheltered place compared to much of the country at the time. Wendy and L were the children of very reknown studio musicians, and Eric went to music school and was the younger brother to James Brown's manager, and he had a music career before Prince. I'm sure there's much they showed young Prince that he hadn't necessarily been familiar with before.

This article merely states that they played Public Enemy for him the first time. That's believable and shouldn't send people into a tizzy.

Believe it or not, they did have radios and records in Minnesota. And a few have even listened to Miles Davis.

.

What kind of a career do you think Eric had prior to joining Prince after Purple Rain? He played the Pittsburgh club scene in the 70s, never made a record - Prince was hired as the youngest producer in Warner's history, selling platinum in 1979 on his 2nd album; he was followed by the biggest PR guy in the industry, Howard Bloom -- listen for yourself: What Made Prince Prince? - YouTube

'I Feel for You' was one of the biggest hits of Chaka Khan's career.

Even Dirty Mind was critically acclaimed - Lenny Kravitz said the album made him do music. Prince's 90 concert 1999 tour with the Time and Vanity 6 was critically acclaimed and commercially successful. And then there was Purple Rain - remember that #1 When Doves Cry?

.

In 1989 Prince released #1, double platinum 'Batman', and W&L released 'Fruit at the Bottom'. If only grandmas were listening to Prince, who was listening to their music? Was Lovesexy granny music too? We all remember the Black Album saga... pulling an already pressed album ready for distribution. He just happened to have Lovesexy ready in his pocket... Most expensive Discogs record sold. Jay Z put out his Black Album in 2003.

Prince's 'The Black Album...c Universe

.

Music school is fine, but some of the most influential musicians never went to school-- Buddy Rich, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Chopin, Bob Dylan, Charlie Parker, Thelonius Monk, Wes Montgomery, George Bensen, Hans Zimmer... and so on.

Prince's dad was a jazz musician, his cousin was top shelf jazz drummer Louis Hayes, who has played with everyone from John Coltrane to Oscar Peterson - not that it is relevant.

[Edited 6/5/21 14:40pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

I think you are being reactionary. W&L are simply trying to talk about their musical relationship to Prince. The article doesn't state that they introduced hom to hip hop, nor do they make that claim. I don't believe they say they introduced him to Joni Mitchell's music, either. Lisa has said that Joni is one of the things they bonded over when they met.

Minnesota was a sheltered place compared to much of the country at the time. Wendy and L were the children of very reknown studio musicians, and Eric went to music school and was the younger brother to James Brown's manager, and he had a music career before Prince. I'm sure there's much they showed young Prince that he hadn't necessarily been familiar with before.

This article merely states that they played Public Enemy for him the first time. That's believable and shouldn't send people into a tizzy.

Believe it or not, they did have radios and records in Minnesota. And a few have even listened to Miles Davis.

.

What kind of a career do you think Eric had prior to joining Prince after Purple Rain? He played the Pittsburgh club scene in the 70s, never made a record - Prince was hired as the youngest producer in Warner's history, selling platinum in 1979 on his 2nd alb...blah blah blah...

I'm from MN. I know what Minnesota is about. It's not a dick contest, man. Facts are facts.

[Edited 6/5/21 15:05pm]

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Believe it or not, they did have radios and records in Minnesota. And a few have even listened to Miles Davis.

.

What kind of a career do you think Eric had prior to joining Prince after Purple Rain? He played the Pittsburgh club scene in the 70s, never made a record - Prince was hired as the youngest producer in Warner's history, selling platinum in 1979 on his 2nd alb...blah blah blah...

I'm from MN. I know what Minnesota is about. It's not a dick contest, man. Facts are facts.

[Edited 6/5/21 15:05pm]

Sure, fact are facts -- what is your point? Prince didn't learn music from Eric, he hired him to lay down some sax on the Family Album. One doesn't need to be from Minnesota to know that Prince had a successful career prior to 1985. What does Eric going to music school have to do with anything -- would he have schooled Duke Ellington too?

There are folks in every town who are are unsophisticated musically -- Prince wasn't one of them, neither was Morris -- no doubt a few others had heard of Miles Davis, including John Nelson.

.

From Morris' book 'On Time':

.

"Prince was crazy for Miles Davis. I dug Miles from 'Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew'. I also followed Miles when he later hooked up with producer Tommy LiPuma and master bassist Marcus Miller and turned out Tutu. But Prince knew Miles' stuff from the 50s. Maybe because Prince's dad was a jazz musician or maybe because Prince could wrap his mind around bebop, he talked about Miles' records on the Prestige and Blue labels. He talked about how Miles recruited the greatest virtuosos of his time - John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Wayne Shorter, Keith Jarrett -- but it was more than music that drew Prince to Miles. It was Miles' attitude. Miles' swagger. Miles' chameleonlike ability to adapt to musical fashions while inventing fashions of his own.

.

Prince would talk about how Miles and Miles alone could get away with turning his back to the audience. He did it as a way of saying, 'You don't matter as much as the music'. Prince also dug that Miles broke the mold when it came to dress. Jazz musicians, like Prince's dad, were hardly into clothes. They were mostly conservative dressers. But as time went on, Miles strutted onto the stage like a rock star, wearing far out metallic designs by avant-garde designers like Issey Miyake....

.

We both saw Bob Dylan as a towering songwriter. Prince was especially impressed with the depth of his catalog. A wildly prolific writer himself, Prince looked to Dylan as a model of productivity. He also dug the great range of Dylan's subject matter, not to mention his blues roots.

.

There were nights when Prince and I did nothing but sit around and listen to the Beatles. He talked about Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band as a revolutionary record. He loved how the Beatles, like Miles, were able to reinvent themselves. He knew that in pop culture, where tastes shift like the wind, reinvention is key to sustaining success."

[Edited 6/5/21 16:04pm]

jdcxc said:

lavendardrummachine said:

But his own vocabularly for playing it doesn't mean he knew music like an A & R guy with his ear to the streets.

When you talk about "Rap music isn't music", Public Enemy was what old music heads were talking about half the time. It offended them to hear Funky Drummer and the JB's like that.

Fight the Power converted people because the film made people sit down and listen to the whole thing, and it was a lot more clever. The samples are indistinguishable, people still argue about it. Prince would have heard Rick James, Funky Drummer again, borrowing lyrics from the Isley Brothers... look at the 2 page sample list, it's crazy.... https://www.whosampled.co...r/samples/

PE didn't sample Prince until 1990. Prince is sampling himself by 1989.

(I don't know who the first to sample Prince was... someone made a Take Me With U electro rap in 1984 that had to confuse him. Salt N' Pepa used The Bird.)

I was a Public Enemy fan since their beginning and a P fan since 1979. Prince has ALWAYS had his ear to the underground, new sounds and production. And PE was not "underground." They were signed to a major label from Day 1...with a lot of music press. There is no way P, who toured extensively with Black audiences (Zapp, Slick Rick), was not up on ALL Black music trends. He was also a young "urban" artist when Hip Hop blew up (they shared the same Right On covers lol) And the Rick Rubin, Bomb Squad and Flav (also a multi-instrumentalist) were Prince heads...I'm sure there was contact in their circles.

Ermmm, Public Enemy were not a success right out of the gate, they were a polarizing group that became a favorite of critics. Def Jam itself, and Hip Hop was pretty close to underground for most of America, but nobody in this topic called it underground anyway. PE started as Spectrum City... nobody heard them.

Prince wasn't touring extensively with "black audiences" by 1986-7.

The assumption Hip Hop artists knew Black musicians becuase they were... Black, and uh "urban", is not accurate. Hip Hop was marginalized. Different worlds.

Was there crossover into Princeland? Yes, but very little... we can talk about what we know but we can't assume anything more. So what do we know?

Melle Mel appears on I Feel For U. He wasn't in the same room as Chaka.

Kurtis Blow did a record signing with Prince, because they shared publicsts at their label and he suggested it when he went to Minny.

His relationship with Dougie Fresh started long before they worked together. I don't have those details.

.... and none of them discredit the story about hearing Fight the Power.

Oh yeah, this is old from 2016, that's where I remember it from, it was Wendy and Lisa. I guess that recent article is just recycling the 5 year old article I'm linking:

https://ambrosiaforheads....-his-sound

Cute, but Sexy MF came out in 1992. Lady Cab Driver was 1982; Holly Rock was 1985, Housequake was 1987, so was the Black Album; Cat rapped on Alphabet Street in 1988; Dirty Mind 1980, Controversy 1981... As I linked earlier, Dr. Dre was copying Vanity 6.

Fight the Power was 1989, and so was Batman -- the kids would have been listening to more Batman than 'Fruit at the Bottom'. But cool for them to fly to Minneapolis just to play him a song 3 years after he let them go.

.

Chuck D:

Chuck D Recall's Recordin...| HipHopDX

“The maestro,” Chuck D says. “It’s like when you put [him] in the vernacular of Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong. For Black folks, he meant everything in the last 50 years to us because he signifies the sign of times in the past, present and future...”

.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/22/prince-musical-legacy-artists-influence-kanye-west-daft-punk-pharrell

Musicians who defined an era in pop and hip-hop, such as superstar producers the Neptunes and Timbaland, took cues from him; listen to Pharrell William’s Frontin’ and the Prince influence is clear. Prince was Timbaland’s idol and like his hero he tried to operate in that colourful area between R&B’s sensuous sexuality and the unbridled machismo that hip-hop can exude.

Talking about the first time he heard I Wanna Be Your Lover, Timbaland said: “To this day, I don’t really know how he created this unique sound, and that’s why it’s so dope. He’s in his own world and nobody else can get there, although I’ve tried.”

.

Timbaland – 7 songs to know me - 1999 is top of list

https://twitter.com/timba...16?lang=en

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys6N3XR5bMQ

Pharrell Williams

“He was inspiration – many songs of mine are the children of his songs… He got an Oscar for Purple Rain. There’s no way, your work can’t be more political than doing that. Because he did it all the way his way. All the way his way. It’s like the universe curved for him. Yes, you’re going to get this award right here in a world where like they don’t, you’re not necessarily welcome at the time because you’re so radical. He warped the universe and rode it to his likings. And everything that was around his work was made to submit. When his music came out, people were copying it, trying to be like it. They tried to get that Minneapolis Sound, and when he started moving around, they tried to follow the sound of what he was doing. He was a magnet – he was a magnet for good taste."

.

Tupac

That One Time Tupac Morph... - YouTube

"I'ma be Prince! And if anyone got a problem with me being Prince, they need to let me know!"

[Edited 6/5/21 20:00pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Cute, but Sexy MF came out in 1992. Lady Cab Driver was 1982; Holly Rock was 1985, Housequake was 1987, so was the Black Album; Cat rapped on Alphabet Street in 1988; Dirty Mind 1980, Controversy 1981... As I linked earlier, Dr. Dre was copying Vanity 6.

Fight the Power was 1989, and so was Batman -- the kids would have been listening to more Batman than 'Fruit at the Bottom'. But cool for them to fly to Minneapolis just to play him a song 3 years after he let them go.

.

Chuck D:

Chuck D Recall's Recordin...| HipHopDX

“The maestro,” Chuck D says. “It’s like when you put [him] in the vernacular of Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong. For Black folks, he meant everything in the last 50 years to us because he signifies the sign of times in the past, present and future...”

.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/22/prince-musical-legacy-artists-influence-kanye-west-daft-punk-pharrell

Musicians who defined an era in pop and hip-hop, such as superstar producers the Neptunes and Timbaland, took cues from him; listen to Pharrell William’s Frontin’ and the Prince influence is clear. Prince was Timbaland’s idol and like his hero he tried to operate in that colourful area between R&B’s sensuous sexuality and the unbridled machismo that hip-hop can exude.

Talking about the first time he heard I Wanna Be Your Lover, Timbaland said: “To this day, I don’t really know how he created this unique sound, and that’s why it’s so dope. He’s in his own world and nobody else can get there, although I’ve tried.”

.

Timbaland – 7 songs to know me - 1999 is top of list

https://twitter.com/timba...16?lang=en

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys6N3XR5bMQ

Pharrell Williams

“He was inspiration – many songs of mine are the children of his songs… He got an Oscar for Purple Rain. There’s no way, your work can’t be more political than doing that. Because he did it all the way his way. All the way his way. It’s like the universe curved for him. Yes, you’re going to get this award right here in a world where like they don’t, you’re not necessarily welcome at the time because you’re so radical. He warped the universe and rode it to his likings. And everything that was around his work was made to submit. When his music came out, people were copying it, trying to be like it. They tried to get that Minneapolis Sound, and when he started moving around, they tried to follow the sound of what he was doing. He was a magnet – he was a magnet for good taste."

.

Tupac

That One Time Tupac Morph... - YouTube

"I'ma be Prince! And if anyone got a problem with me being Prince, they need to let me know!"

[Edited 6/5/21 20:00pm]

Ugh.. can anyone on the org attempt to keep shit fun and positive? I used to really enjoy coming here.

JudasLChrist said:

Hamad said:

HamsterHuey said:

Hamad said:

They also claimed they introduced him to Joni Mitchell which really blows my mind

They worked with Joni. Maybe they meant they've introduced her to him in person.

I love how people call W&L out, while they were the only ones to call Prince's BS publicly while he was still alive. I think it's only natural that more stories come to light, now people are documenting Prince's life,

W&L do not always have a hand in how reporters shape their stories. Or how they are perceived.

And to be calling their info BS, I always give people the benefit of the doubt, as they were there, with Prince. All these couch critics calling people out were not there.

jaawwnn said:

JudasLChrist said:

tab32792 said:

Hamad said:

Prince is the son of a Jazz combo leader. What do you mean Eric introduced him to jazz/Miles Davis? I’m sick & tired of this “Prince was living under a rock when I found him” narrative these people are trying to push. [Edited 6/4/21 16:41pm]

The white savior complex lol it happens all the time. They made his music more sophisticated 😒🙄 as if his first album wasn’t sophisticated already lol

I am a fan of the Revolution Era but it's really sickening when people really believe they "made" Prince and this is why.

tab32792 said:

Hamad said:

Prince is the son of a Jazz combo leader. What do you mean Eric introduced him to jazz/Miles Davis? I’m sick & tired of this “Prince was living under a rock when I found him” narrative these people are trying to push. [Edited 6/4/21 16:41pm]

The white savior complex lol it happens all the time. They made his music more sophisticated 😒🙄 as if his first album wasn’t sophisticated already lol

Truth! Prince was a musical polyglot before his first album. To think that Lisa/Wendy/Eric carved him from stone is laughable.

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

I'm from MN. I know what Minnesota is about. It's not a dick contest, man. Facts are facts.

[Edited 6/5/21 15:05pm]

Sure, fact are facts -- what is your point? Prince didn't learn music from Eric, he hired him to lay down some sax on the Family Album. One doesn't need to be from Minnesota to know that Prince had a successful career prior to 1985. What does Eric going to music school have to do with anything -- would he have schooled Duke Ellington too?

There are folks in every town who are are unsophisticated musically -- Prince wasn't one of them, neither was Morris -- no doubt a few others had heard of Miles Davis, including John Nelson.

.

From Morris' book 'On Time':

.

"Prince was crazy for Miles Davis. I dug Miles from 'Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew'. I also followed Miles when he later hooked up with producer Tommy LiPuma and master bassist Marcus Miller and turned out Tutu. But Prince knew Miles' stuff from the 50s. Maybe because Prince's dad was a jazz musician or maybe because Prince could wrap his mind around bebop, he talked about Miles' records on the Prestige and Blue labels. He talked about how Miles recruited the greatest virtuosos of his time - John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Wayne Shorter, Keith Jarrett -- but it was more than music that drew Prince to Miles. It was Miles' attitude. Miles' swagger. Miles' chameleonlike ability to adapt to musical fashions while inventing fashions of his own.

.

Prince would talk about how Miles and Miles alone could get away with turning his back to the audience. He did it as a way of saying, 'You don't matter as much as the music'. Prince also dug that Miles broke the mold when it came to dress. Jazz musicians, like Prince's dad, were hardly into clothes. They were mostly conservative dressers. But as time went on, Miles strutted onto the stage like a rock star, wearing far out metallic designs by avant-garde designers like Issey Miyake....

.

We both saw Bob Dylan as a towering songwriter. Prince was especially impressed with the depth of his catalog. A wildly prolific writer himself, Prince looked to Dylan as a model of productivity. He also dug the great range of Dylan's subject matter, not to mention his blues roots.

.

There were nights when Prince and I did nothing but sit around and listen to the Beatles. He talked about Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band as a revolutionary record. He loved how the Beatles, like Miles, were able to reinvent themselves. He knew that in pop culture, where tastes shift like the wind, reinvention is key to sustaining success."

[Edited 6/5/21 16:04pm]

Ur bringing great receipts to this topic! For anyone to argue that Prince wasnt musically curious, with an encyclopedic musical taste from DAY 1, is ludicrous.

I heard that a long time ago. Wendy was into Public Enemy and she was djing or playing some records and told Prince this is what's coming or something like that around 89 it might have been around the time he brought the Lovesexy tour show to Paisley Park and Bobby Z Jill Jones, Susannah Wendy & Lisa were at the show and played on a few songs.

Prince was not into hip hop. And at one point Public Enemy sampled Prince's Let's Go Crazy solo ( I believe without his permission)

jdcxc said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Sure, fact are facts -- what is your point? Prince didn't learn music from Eric, he hired him to lay down some sax on the Family Album. One doesn't need to be from Minnesota to know that Prince had a successful career prior to 1985. What does Eric going to music school have to do with anything -- would he have schooled Duke Ellington too?

There are folks in every town who are are unsophisticated musically -- Prince wasn't one of them, neither was Morris -- no doubt a few others had heard of Miles Davis, including John Nelson.

.

From Morris' book 'On Time':

.

"Prince was crazy for Miles Davis. I dug Miles from 'Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew'. I also followed Miles when he later hooked up with producer Tommy LiPuma and master bassist Marcus Miller and turned out Tutu. But Prince knew Miles' stuff from the 50s. Maybe because Prince's dad was a jazz musician or maybe because Prince could wrap his mind around bebop, he talked about Miles' records on the Prestige and Blue labels. He talked about how Miles recruited the greatest virtuosos of his time - John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Wayne Shorter, Keith Jarrett -- but it was more than music that drew Prince to Miles. It was Miles' attitude. Miles' swagger. Miles' chameleonlike ability to adapt to musical fashions while inventing fashions of his own.

.

Prince would talk about how Miles and Miles alone could get away with turning his back to the audience. He did it as a way of saying, 'You don't matter as much as the music'. Prince also dug that Miles broke the mold when it came to dress. Jazz musicians, like Prince's dad, were hardly into clothes. They were mostly conservative dressers. But as time went on, Miles strutted onto the stage like a rock star, wearing far out metallic designs by avant-garde designers like Issey Miyake....

.

We both saw Bob Dylan as a towering songwriter. Prince was especially impressed with the depth of his catalog. A wildly prolific writer himself, Prince looked to Dylan as a model of productivity. He also dug the great range of Dylan's subject matter, not to mention his blues roots.

.

There were nights when Prince and I did nothing but sit around and listen to the Beatles. He talked about Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band as a revolutionary record. He loved how the Beatles, like Miles, were able to reinvent themselves. He knew that in pop culture, where tastes shift like the wind, reinvention is key to sustaining success."

[Edited 6/5/21 16:04pm]

Ur bringing great receipts to this topic! For anyone to argue that Prince wasnt musically curious, with an encyclopedic musical taste from DAY 1, is ludicrous.

It is curious that I would even need to bring receipts. Prince knew a wee bit more than the black experience (what PE represented) than Wendy and Lisa. No wonder he was irritated and not 'dancing around'. Prince also said he wasn't into Hendrix, lol. Haven't heard anything in W&L's music that shows any connection with rap, hip hop or speaking truth to power. Sometimes the proof of the pudding is in the taste.

[Edited 6/6/21 11:24am]

Purple Reign, Forever: Ho...(vice.com)

.

Within hip-hop, Prince established an archetype alternately followed and ignored, idolized and shunned. Comparing someone to Prince could be a compliment or an insult. Hip-hop’s health could be calibrated by how readily artists admitted his influence. If it leaned too gangsta, his patrimony was denied. At its most open-minded, he was the Old Testament patriarch glittering in a leotard and cravat—gleefully shattering every commandment on Saturday night, soulfully repenting every Sunday morning.

.

He invented swag and called it “sickness.” He’s so deeply embedded in the funk DNA of early West Coast electro hip-hop that an alternate 1999 was unthinkable. “Head” and “Lady Cab Driver” boomed from stacked pyramids of Cerwin-Vega speakers at the fabled freak fests hosted by Uncle Jamm’s Army. If Instagram existed in 1984, The Egyptian Lover and N.W.A.’s Arabian Prince would’ve been the first to chime “Dad” in Prince’s comments. After the death, Ice Cube posted a photo of Prince and Vanity, asking if anyone had seen his childhood. Dre stitched a subtle “Let’s Go Crazy” sample into “Eazy-Duz-It.”

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A reliable source once told me about a time that DJ Quik bought some re-mastered Prince CDs. Intending to go out that night, Quik bought the reissues to bump to and from the club. But upon getting in his car, the Compton legend allegedly became horrified by the tweaked sonics, returned to the studio, and spent several hours restoring the audio fidelity to its former luster. It apparently sounded pristine. I’m not sure how one would even begin to do such a thing or how accurate the story is, but I need to believe that it’s true. Prince meant too much to DJ Quik. He meant too much to anyone with a functioning pulse, preponderance of funk, and an active libido.

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We could be here all day if we start listing the hip-hop artists who sampled Prince: Afrika Bambaataa to Bizzy Bone; Digital Underground to De La Soul; LL Cool J to Mac Mall; MC Lyte to Arrested Development. Lil Troy’s “Wanna Be a Baller” rides a chopped and slopped sample of “Little Red Corvette.” Nikki Minaj did the obvious and appropriated “Darling Nikki.” His only true peer in lavender, Cam’ron, paid homage by rhyming “purple rain” with “purple pain” over a “Diamonds & Pearls” loop.

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Kanye flipped him on “Big Brother” and infamously rhymed “Apollonia” with “Isotoners” on “Stronger.” Said big brother, Jay Z, interpolated “If I Was Your Girlfriend” on “03 Bonnie & Clyde.” He nicked the title of The Black Album from Prince too. In later years, the pair became famously close, and reportedly discussed doing a documentary.

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2Pac once claimed he wanted to hang with Prince because they “loved women the same way.” So yes, that’s a “Do Me, Baby” sample on “To Live & Die in L.A.” We remember MC Hammer primarily for Zubaz pants, bankruptcy, and “U Can’t Touch This.” But his highest charting single was actually “Pray,” which jacked a loop of “When Doves Cry,” and ascended to number two on the Billboard Hot 100. Even second-hand, Prince realized his ultimate revenge on his ex-tourmate Rick James.

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Prince’s experimental freedom and willingness to flout convention found a natural affinity with Bay Area rappers. E-40 quoted “Why You Treat Me So Bad” on the remix to “I Got 5 On It.” Upon Prince’s passing, he tweeted his despondence that we lost a “musical genius.” Without Prince—the original goon in tiny pants—the world couldn’t have remotely understood Lil B. The Based God sampled “I Will Die 4 U” on “Fed Time,” and once told MTV’s Sucka Free about their plans to collaborate (presumably on a Purple Flame mixtape).

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Famously contentious with the genre he helped sculpt, Prince toyed with rapping as early as 1982, spitting bars on the B-Side “Irresistible Bitch.” By the late 80s, he viewed it as a mild threat—evidenced on The Black Album’s “Dead On It,”...

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Prince welcomed hip-hop back on 1991’s Diamonds and Pearls. “Sexy MF,” “P Control,” and “My Name Is Prince” raunchily meld hip-hop, pop, funk, and New Jack Swing. Always eager to embrace technology, Prince readily encouraged sampling, even deliberating the release of a seven-CD set of instrumentals that producers could reference without paying royalties to Warner Bros. As he warbled on 1988’s "I Wish U Heaven:" "Take this beat, I don't mind / Got so many others, they're so fine."

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He enlisted Big Daddy Kane to remix “Bat Dance,” but it never saw an official release. He conscripted J-Swift of The Pharcyde to remix “Letitgo,” one of the most unsung gems in his catalogue. But Paisley Park only released only a single hip-hop album (from forgotten Minneapolis native, T.C. Ellis.).

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As the millennium wound down, Prince collaborated with Chuck D on “Undisputed” and released “The Greatest Romance Ever Sold,” featuring an “Adam & Eve Remix” with Eve, the pitbull in a skirt. A separate CD-single boasted a Neptunes edit and Q-Tip verse.

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As he grew more religious, the “Darling Nikki” composer occasionally took umbrage with hip-hop’s violent imagery and foul language, but his intersections never stopped. Even his conversion to the Jehovah’s Witness faith came under the auspices of his frequent collaborator, ex-Sly and the Family Stone bassist, Larry Graham—who happens to be Drake’s uncle.

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A reported cameo on Kendrick Lamar’s “Complexion (A Zulu Love)” never materialized, but Prince’s influence still managed to hang over untitled, unmastered. “Me and Kendrick always talked about doing a sort of Black Album, like how Prince did back in the day,” TDE’s Punch said earlier in 2016. On this year’s Purple Reign, Future turned Lake Minnetonka into a pool of promethazine. Its standout track, a sluggish death march called “Perky’s Calling,” now feels like a grim harbinger to Prince’s demise.

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Over the weekend, Young Thug posted a photo of Prince holding a rose in a white ruffled pantsuit, fully unbuttoned. His caption read, “I quit.” Without Prince, its unclear where he could’ve started.

I quit…

A photo posted by CESAR THE APE!!!!!!! (@thuggerthugger1) on Apr 21, 2016 at 10:28am PDT

This untimely end caused massive bereavement in the rap world from both those you’d expect (Questlove, Timbaland, Danny Brown) to those who might not (Soulja Boy, Freddie Gibbs, El-P). It goes without saying that every R&B singer of the last 30 years owes some creative debt to the late funk virtuoso. Ty Dolla said, “he’s the reason I play guitar like I do…the reason I do my harmonies the way I do.” Anderson Paak chimed in: “I don’t think y’all understand how funky Prince was.”

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But it goes deeper than brief online encomiums and sample litanies. If hip-hop’s fundamental tenet is the wild style, Prince embodied that spirit better than all others, instilling a sense of fearlessness, creative risk, flamboyant dress, and infectious melodies to several generations. If Lil Wayne and Andre 3000 are two of the most influential artists of the last half-century, Prince is the purple progenitor, the creator of abstruse shades that Crayola could never copy.

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That’s not to say that none have tried. For all its frequent flashes of brilliance, Andre’s Love Below received the Best Album Grammy for what was essentially a Prince imitation. While Lil Wayne’s creative breakthrough only came after he re-discovered the artist. “It was the way he pronounced words and the way he used his voice. It was the way that he explored,” ” Wayne told me in 2014. “He wasn’t afraid of how he sounded because he knew what he was saying and how he was saying it would always sound good.”

[Edited 6/6/21 11:23am]

Questlove Pens List Explaining Why Prince was 'Hip-Hop Pioneer'

Questlove Pens List Expla...ling Stone

Questlove Shares 40 Ways ... | Complex

1. Came from troubled home.
2. Limited access to music forces him to create his own world of music.
3. Overcame poverty.
4. Creates fictional background tales to keep the press guessing.
5. Lives by the DIY creed.
6. Takes fashion taboos and makes them mainstream and acceptable.
7. Cock blocks and steals your lady on the low (ask Rick).
8. Puts his crew on—get them deals and makes them stars.
9. Pretty much wrote the book on gettin some better than any of his contemporaries.
10. Had beef with his peers who hated on him.
11. Invented the remix (not disco edits, but reimagining the album version).
12. Played mystery card—let us think what we wanted—gave the press middle finger.
13. Ghostwrote for everyone.
14. Used mad aliases.
15. Refused to be ordinary and eschewed the proper English language as a ways two communicate.
16. Knew the B side wins again and again.
17. Used the exotic honey to his advantage.
18. Used his music to give his views on the po po, politicians, gun control, war, God, squares and “the man.”
19. Turned a long music video into a revolution.
20. Best drum machine programmer ever.
21. Used synthesizers as a way of life.
22. Could make an entire album in less than a week.
23. Balled so hard in Paris and other parts of France—so he made a film about it.
24. Cut his crew off and got a new crew.
25. Went all hippie like it was nothing.
26. Made dis records.
27. Never wifed em, mostly replaced em.
28. Started his own label.
29. Parental Advisory was invented because of him.
30. Made a black album with a chip on [his] shoulder to prove he was still bad.
31. Plays sports better than you.
32. Had mad songs in the stash.
33. Had an MTV mansion/compound long before anyone did.
34. Changed looks constantly.
35. Droped music on the net in record time.
36. Looked out for his peeps on the low doing benefits and raising like a modern day Robin Hood.
37. Tries taking on the man for his complete freedom.
38. Couldn’t tell him NOTHING.
39. Always escaped into thin air.
40. Left us too early.

[Edited 6/6/21 12:03pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Questlove Pens List Explaining Why Prince was 'Hip-Hop Pioneer'

You know he's not entirely serious right?

The question is when Hip Hop influenced Prince..... what Hip Hop producers thought of Prince or how Prince influenced Hip Hop is fun, but doesn't really address that.

PJMcGee said:

I was all ready to call b.s. I was sure U Can't Touch This was a huge #1 smash. It only went to #8? Huh.

MC Hammer's 'Pray' went to #2 -- heavily samples When Doves Cry.

Funny that this thread exists since in the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame thread, there are comments saying hip hop is "spoken word" and not music.

Early rap in the 80s was not so quickly embraced by older generations. ie 30s up.
It was being called a fad and not really accepted as music as older generations usually do.
I know of 'Black' radio stations that did not play rap music until after a certain time in the 80s.

It was a younger generations thing. And Prince wasn't some average 'urban' man especially in 1987 or 1989. He was still in his bubble and doing his own thing. Yes he listened to stuff that was happening current, but I think not listening to so much of it, as regular folk would made his music in the 80s so unique. In 1988 Prince was still hanging with people with the same off color energy from his 1978-1986 period. The AA musicians were heavily into rock and still emersed in Prince's sound.
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I remember first hearing 45s of UTFO and Roxanne etc

at the time, it was interesting, but I was so emersed in various types of music and being a huge Prince fan, I was used to a lot of melody, and all types of instruments. Rap didn't have that right away. And I still remember the period where it was basically a rapper and a drum machine. I just didn't care for it. Being a huge Prince fan and getting a copy of a copy of the Black album late 87 I was sorta in agreement with Prince. I mean he was my prince so I had to right?
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Being 'black' or of African ancestry doesn't mean all liked rap. It just doesn't go that way lol. Being a huge jazz fan from way back I always knew black/mixed dudes that just didn't care for it.

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OldFriends4Sale said:

Early rap in the 80s was not so quickly embraced by older generations. ie 30s up.
It was being called a fad and not really accepted as music as older generations usually do.
I know of 'Black' radio stations that did not play rap music until after a certain time in the 80s.

It was a younger generations thing. And Prince wasn't some average 'urban' man especially in 1987 or 1989. He was still in his bubble and doing his own thing. Yes he listened to stuff that was happening current, but I think not listening to so much of it, as regular folk would made his music in the 80s so unique. In 1988 Prince was still hanging with people with the same off color energy from his 1978-1986 period. The AA musicians were heavily into rock and still emersed in Prince's sound.
.
I remember first hearing 45s of UTFO and Roxanne etc

at the time, it was interesting, but I was so emersed in various types of music and being a huge Prince fan, I was used to a lot of melody, and all types of instruments. Rap didn't have that right away. And I still remember the period where it was basically a rapper and a drum machine. I just didn't care for it. Being a huge Prince fan and getting a copy of a copy of the Black album late 87 I was sorta in agreement with Prince. I mean he was my prince so I had to right?
.
Being 'black' or of African ancestry doesn't mean all liked rap. It just doesn't go that way lol. Being a huge jazz fan from way back I always knew black/mixed dudes that just didn't care for it.

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Riding in my Thunderbird on the freeway
I turned on my radio to hear some music play
I got a silly rapper talking silly shit instead
And the only good rapper is one that's dead on it

Uh, dead on it

Shall we go back? (Yeah)
Let's go

Negros from Brooklyn play the bass pretty good
But the ones from Minneapolis play it like it oughta should
A magnum fro is better when you got a poof on it
And the to and fro is funky when the grease is dead on it

Uh, dead (on it) on it

Shall we go back? Let's go
They dead on it, wow

Ah
See the rapper's problem usually stem from being tone deaf
Pack the house then try to sing
There won't be no one left, on it

Parking lot's on fire, brothers peelin' out of the town
They say in disgust, they singin' their guts
Rappin' done let us down (down, down)
You got to be dead, on it (ohh)

Dead on it (ohh)
(Dead)

All the sisters like it when you lick 'em on the knees
Don't believe me? (No)
Do it once then stop, they'll be begging
"Please, please, please" (please, please, please)
Shoo be doo wa, dead on it
What does that have to do with the funk?
Nothing, but who's paying the bills?
If you don't want to lick my knees, I'm sho' your mama will

Uh, 'cause we, 'cause we, 'cause we dead on it
D-d-d-d-d-d-dead on it, on it
La, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la

My bed's a coffin, Dracula ain't got shit on me
My nickname's Hell's-a-Poppin', I'm badder than the Wicked Witch
I got a gold tooth, costs more than your house
I got a diamond ring on four fingers (four fingers)
Each one the size of a mouse

They dead, they dead (on it) on it

Ha
Yeah-hoo
She-la, la, la, ah, ooh, oh
Uh

La, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la
La, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la

Wait now, hang up, dial tone on the three
You know, you know, I'm busy, to scizzy
Can't nobody fuck with me

'Cause I'm dead (on it, on it, on it)
On it

Shoo be doo wa wa, dead on it
Dead on it, on it, on it

Dang, dang, dang, dang
(Dead on it) shoo be dang, dang, dang (dead on it)
Dead on it (dead on it)

And yet Cat was rapping on Alphabet Street - Lovesexy. Prince was a player... or do you also think he also wasn't influenced by Hendrix, as he claimed? But true, the artist who recorded 'Dirty Mind' was not your average urban Joe.

[Edited 6/6/21 12:41pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

And yet Cat was rapping on Alphabet Street - Lovesexy.

Didn't know i was JM Silk's rhyme from an electro house track though.