Margot said:

I think there is a tendency among Prince fans to glamorize and mythologize Prince's need for drugs (opiates) in order to keep playing and performing.

There are a number of professions which induce wrist/hand pain (carpal tunnel syndrome) from

repetitive use; beauticians, typists, surgeons, seamstresses, etc. It does not mean these people need

opiates to continue with their work. Anti-inflammatories, rest, ice, elevation are the treatment.

There are many piano players who practice for 6-7 hours a day and do not use opiates, guitar players as well.

Yes, Prince jumped off risers and did a lot of splits but he likely needed hip surgery, not opiates.

As a nurse, this mythologizing drives me nuts.

Not really, more like anonymous folks on a gossip site, who have never met the patient.

.

Opioid use in rheumatoid ... (nih.gov)

Rheumatologists are among the physicians at the forefront of the epidemic because of the prominent role of pain in rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and the limited options for treatment of pain. The purpose of this review is to provide an update on the trends of opioid use among patients with RA, to discuss the various mechanisms of RA pain, review the available evidence for opioid efficacy in RA, and to promote a guideline for best practices in opioid prescribing.

Recent findings: Recent cohort studies have estimated that up to 40% of patients with RA are regular users of opioids, and the effects of disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs are minimal in reducing opioid use.

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

I think there is a tendency among Prince fans to glamorize and mythologize Prince's need for drugs (opiates) in order to keep playing and performing.

There are a number of professions which induce wrist/hand pain (carpal tunnel syndrome) from

repetitive use; beauticians, typists, surgeons, seamstresses, etc. It does not mean these people need

opiates to continue with their work. Anti-inflammatories, rest, ice, elevation are the treatment.

There are many piano players who practice for 6-7 hours a day and do not use opiates, guitar players as well.

Yes, Prince jumped off risers and did a lot of splits but he likely needed hip surgery, not opiates.

As a nurse, this mythologizing drives me nuts.

Not really, more like anonymous folks on a gossip site, who have never met the patient.

.

Opioid use in rheumatoid ... (nih.gov)

Rheumatologists are among the physicians at the forefront of the epidemic because of the prominent role of pain in rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and the limited options for treatment of pain. The purpose of this review is to provide an update on the trends of opioid use among patients with RA, to discuss the various mechanisms of RA pain, review the available evidence for opioid efficacy in RA, and to promote a guideline for best practices in opioid prescribing.

Recent findings: Recent cohort studies have estimated that up to 40% of patients with RA are regular users of opioids, and the effects of disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs are minimal in reducing opioid use.

Prince had osteoarthritis, not rheumatoid arthritis.

Both cause stiff, painful joints. Both are types of arthritis. Other than that, rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis share little in common.

Their differences begin with what causes them. Osteoarthritis is more commonly occurs later in life, after years of mechanical wear and tear on the cartilage which lines and cushions your joints. Rheumatoid arthritis, which can occur at most any age, is an autoimmune disease. That is, your body's immune system attacks your joints.

***

I am not going to debate this further because you don't have the medical background.

I am also going to ask nicely (once) that you stop following me like you did in another thread.

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Not really, more like anonymous folks on a gossip site, who have never met the patient.

.

Opioid use in rheumatoid ... (nih.gov)

Rheumatologists are among the physicians at the forefront of the epidemic because of the prominent role of pain in rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and the limited options for treatment of pain. The purpose of this review is to provide an update on the trends of opioid use among patients with RA, to discuss the various mechanisms of RA pain, review the available evidence for opioid efficacy in RA, and to promote a guideline for best practices in opioid prescribing.

Recent findings: Recent cohort studies have estimated that up to 40% of patients with RA are regular users of opioids, and the effects of disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs are minimal in reducing opioid use.

Prince had osteoarthritis, not rheumatoid arthritis.

Both cause stiff, painful joints. Both are types of arthritis. Other than that, rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis share little in common.

Their differences begin with what causes them. Osteoarthritis is more commonly occurs later in life, after years of mechanical wear and tear on the cartilage which lines and cushions your joints. Rheumatoid arthritis, which can occur at most any age, is an autoimmune disease. That is, your body's immune system attacks your joints.

***

I am not going to debate this further because you don't have the medical background.

I am also going to ask nicely (once) that you stop following me like you did in another thread.

You claimed that opiates are not the treatment - but many do take opiates for arthritis. I posted a response, because that is what one does on a disussion forum. You were not Prince's doctor, so have no more medical knowledge about him than anyone else here.

[Edited 4/10/21 21:46pm]

Opioids for osteoarthritis | Cochrane

What is osteoarthritis and what are opioids?

OA is a disease of the joints, such as your knee or hip. When the joint loses cartilage, the bone grows to try to repair the damage. Instead of making things better, however, the bone grows abnormally and makes things worse. For example, the bone can become misshapen and make the joint painful and unstable. This can affect your physical function or ability to use your knee.

Opioids are generally conceived as powerful pain-relieving substances that are used for the pain of cancer or osteoarthritis. Some examples of opioids are codeine-containing Tylenol® (1, 2, 3, and 4), hydromorphone (Dilaudid), oxycodone (Percocet, Percodan), morphine, and others. They can be taken in a pill form, as an injection, or as a patch placed on the painful area.

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

Prince had osteoarthritis, not rheumatoid arthritis.

Both cause stiff, painful joints. Both are types of arthritis. Other than that, rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis share little in common.

Their differences begin with what causes them. Osteoarthritis is more commonly occurs later in life, after years of mechanical wear and tear on the cartilage which lines and cushions your joints. Rheumatoid arthritis, which can occur at most any age, is an autoimmune disease. That is, your body's immune system attacks your joints.

***

I am not going to debate this further because you don't have the medical background.

I am also going to ask nicely (once) that you stop following me like you did in another thread.

You claimed that opiates are not the treatment - but many do take opiates for arthritis. I posted a response, because that is what one does on a disussion forum. You were not Prince's doctor, so have no more medical knowledge about him than anyone else here.

[Edited 4/10/21 21:46pm]

Youv'e proven you can copy and paste from Web MD.

• I guess I can call my self a coder now and speak with authority on something I actually have no knowledge about.
• You basically follow me and hound me because you feel uncomfortable with some of what I say
• My intent is to keep medical topics as accurate as I can. I would love to share this role with another medical professional as it gets exhausting to keep repeating the same basic stuff over and over and over.
• Most of what I say about Prince's health etc. is threatening to you, is my belief.
• My intent is to share what I perceive as objectively as possible. Sometimes that makes people uncomfortable. There are too many secrets and worn-out myths in the Prince community.
• I think we're all here to get a better sense of who Prince really was. My line of expertise just happens to be the medical part and I do try to keep it as accurate as possible. I'm also trying to try to lift some of the judgement about certain topics and stigma as well. I have to keep reminding myself that I work in uber liberal Marin Co., CA where these kinds of discussions are
• accepted and discussed freely w/o the stigma and pearl-clutching.

[Edited 4/11/21 0:41am]

[Edited 4/11/21 0:50am]

MoodyBlumes said:

You claimed that opiates are not the treatment

.

Did you really think this through?

Can you discern between root causes and side effects?

Pain is simply an effect of something wrong somewhere.

Taking away the pain (your 'treatment') does not fix the root cause.

The root cause needs a different 'treatment' to be fixed.

toots said:

Margot said:

I don't agree with that statement . Many people in their mid-50's feel great; no aches or pains.

It depends on how you've lived.

Of course Prince and serious athletes can have traumatic arthritis.

You must be a youngin then ...im almost 50 and i can tell you for a fact even many athletic people have ailments they in their feet muscles and etc so whatever u smoking please pass that around 🤣🤣🤣 i know a body builder and he has bad knees and still bodybuilds 🤣🤣🤣 [Edited 4/11/21 0:21am]

Yeah, I have to say, I'd hate for anyone to read that and think it's normal to be aches and pain free for half their life. That would be the equivalent of being a Barbie doll. Prince's case had to have been extreme, otherwise he wouldn't have gone under the knife, but having aches and pains is human.

udo said:

Taking away the pain (your 'treatment') does not fix the root cause.

The root cause needs a different 'treatment' to be fixed.

Depends. In Prince's case that would be correct, but anti-inflammatories are also used as a treatment in some cases, especially sports injury or minor nerve related stuff. In place of treatments that are remedies, it really is about pain management, so diaretics and things like compression socks are perscribed, none of which addresss the root cause. They could have shot him with synthetic cartilage so the bone didn't grind, or other injectables but again, that's not fixing the root cause.

None of that addresses addiction or tolerance build up, that's a different issue.

lavendardrummachine said:

udo said:

Taking away the pain (your 'treatment') does not fix the root cause.

The root cause needs a different 'treatment' to be fixed.

Depends. In Prince's case that would be correct,

.

Thank you.

.

Anti-inflammatories are not the same as pain killers. (see dexmatheason and similar)

.

None of that addresses addiction or tolerance build up, that's a different issue.

.

That is a problem created while not treating the root cause.

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

You claimed that opiates are not the treatment - but many do take opiates for arthritis. I posted a response, because that is what one does on a disussion forum. You were not Prince's doctor, so have no more medical knowledge about him than anyone else here.

[Edited 4/10/21 21:46pm]

Youv'e proven you can copy and paste from Web MD.

• I guess I can call my self a coder now and speak with authority on something I actually have no knowledge about.
• You basically follow me and hound me because you feel uncomfortable with some of what I say
• My intent is to keep medical topics as accurate as I can. I would love to share this role with another medical professional as it gets exhausting to keep repeating the same basic stuff over and over and over.
• Most of what I say about Prince's health etc. is threatening to you, is my belief.
• My intent is to share what I perceive as objectively as possible. Sometimes that makes people uncomfortable. There are too many secrets and worn-out myths in the Prince community.
• I think we're all here to get a better sense of who Prince really was. My line of expertise just happens to be the medical part and I do try to keep it as accurate as possible. I'm also trying to try to lift some of the judgement about certain topics and stigma as well. I have to keep reminding myself that I work in uber liberal Marin Co., CA where these kinds of discussions are
• accepted and discussed freely w/o the stigma and pearl-clutching.

[Edited 4/11/21 0:41am]

[Edited 4/11/21 0:50am]

Yes, it is quite common to support claims with internet links, in this case from medical websites. But feel free to post your resume -- doesn't change the fact that many arthritis patients take opiates. It is one thing to have an opinion on a gossip forum, and quite another to declare what Prince did or didn't have, having never known or examined him. As for following you around, there is medication that can help.

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

Youv'e proven you can copy and paste from Web MD.

• I guess I can call my self a coder now and speak with authority on something I actually have no knowledge about.
• You basically follow me and hound me because you feel uncomfortable with some of what I say
• My intent is to keep medical topics as accurate as I can. I would love to share this role with another medical professional as it gets exhausting to keep repeating the same basic stuff over and over and over.
• Most of what I say about Prince's health etc. is threatening to you, is my belief.
• My intent is to share what I perceive as objectively as possible. Sometimes that makes people uncomfortable. There are too many secrets and worn-out myths in the Prince community.
• I think we're all here to get a better sense of who Prince really was. My line of expertise just happens to be the medical part and I do try to keep it as accurate as possible. I'm also trying to try to lift some of the judgement about certain topics and stigma as well. I have to keep reminding myself that I work in uber liberal Marin Co., CA where these kinds of discussions are
• accepted and discussed freely w/o the stigma and pearl-clutching.

[Edited 4/11/21 0:41am]

[Edited 4/11/21 0:50am]

Yes, it is quite common to support claims with internet links, in this case from medical websites. But feel free to post your resume -- doesn't change the fact that many arthritis patients take opiates. It is one thing to have an opinion on a gossip forum, and quite another to declare what Prince did or didn't have, having never known or examined him. As for following you around, there is medication that can help.

Once again, for the people in the back, taking high-dose opiates is not a recognized treatment for

arthritis when there are many intermediate remedies. We also have no proof he had arthritis of the hands. Pure fan fiction.

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Yes, it is quite common to support claims with internet links, in this case from medical websites. But feel free to post your resume -- doesn't change the fact that many arthritis patients take opiates. It is one thing to have an opinion on a gossip forum, and quite another to declare what Prince did or didn't have, having never known or examined him. As for following you around, there is medication that can help.

Once again, for the people in the back, taking high-dose opiates is not a recognized treatment for

arthritis when there are many intermediate remedies. We also have no proof he had arthritis of the hands. Pure fan fiction.

At the back of what, our avatar names? Opiates have indeed been a treatment for arthritis. As for the pain in Prince's hands -- it was Judith who put that out in her police report. But pictures of Prince's hands did look like he was struggling with arthritis. As for all of what he was dealing with, privacy laws apply to musicians too.

udo said:

Thank you.

.

Anti-inflammatories are not the same as pain killers. (see dexmatheason and similar)

The root cause of arthritis is life and genetics, and wear and tear. There is no cure just temporary band aids. With knee and hip pain, they can attempt surgery, but Prince had already tried that.

NSAIDS are in almost everything now, it's almost impossible to avoid them, and they can cause problems.

Fetanyl (and Morphine) supposedly have anti inflammatory benefits and it was being perscribed for Arthritis as insane as it sounds.

lavendardrummachine said:

udo said:

The root cause of arthritis is life and genetics, and wear and tear. There is no cure just temporary band aids. With knee and hip pain, they can attempt surgery, but Prince had already tried that.

NSAIDS are in almost everything now, it's almost impossible to avoid them, and they can cause problems.

Fetanyl (and Morphine) supposedly have anti inflammatory benefits and it was being perscribed for Arthritis as insane as it sounds.

None of the above is true.

-Prince tried a procedure on one of hips, he decided against the other (though he needed it)

-Please tell us which NSAIDS are in 'everything'?

-There is no proof Prince had arthritis of the hands though he did play the piano hard.

Fentanyl is prescribed for post-operative pain and given (intravenously) in a recovery room.

It is also used in patch form for end-of-life cancer-type pain.

Neither fentany nor Morphine have anti-infammatory properties...they are opiates, they are pain meds.

-Anti-inflammatories are Advil, Motrin, Celebrex, steroids etc., NOT opiates.

-Anti-inflammatories can and should used as a first-line drug, followed by Tylenol (unless one has liver or kidney issues).

-Opiates are now given very sparingly as other drugs can be effective and are not addictive.

[Edited 4/13/21 20:21pm]

[Edited 4/13/21 20:34pm]

Margot said:

None of the above is true.

-Prince tried a procedure on one of hips, he decided against the other (though he needed it)

-Please tell us which NSAIDS are in 'everything'?

-There is no proof Prince had arthritis of the hands though he did play the piano hard.

Fentanyl is prescribed for post-operative pain and given (intravenously) in a recovery room.

It is also used in patch form for end-of-life cancer-type pain.

Neither fentany nor Morphine have anti-infammatory properties...they are opiates, they are pain meds.

-Anti-inflammatories are Advil, Motrin, Celebrex, steroids etc., NOT opiates.

-Anti-inflammatories can and should used as a first-line drug, followed by Tylenol (unless one has liver or kidney issues).

-Opiates are now given very sparingly as other drugs can be effective and are not addictive.

[Edited 4/13/21 20:21pm]

[Edited 4/13/21 20:34pm]

Frankly, as someone who has represented themself as a medical professional, and continued to make what would be controversial statements if you made them in a profresional setting, you've made a number of improper statements in this thread and past threads. Nuff said.

Neither of us knows the limitations of the arthritis Prince had or exactly how it effected his life. It's speculation.

[Edited 4/14/21 0:32am]

lavendardrummachine said:

Margot said:

None of the above is true.

-Prince tried a procedure on one of hips, he decided against the other (though he needed it)

-Please tell us which NSAIDS are in 'everything'?

-There is no proof Prince had arthritis of the hands though he did play the piano hard.

Fentanyl is prescribed for post-operative pain and given (intravenously) in a recovery room.

It is also used in patch form for end-of-life cancer-type pain.

Neither fentany nor Morphine have anti-infammatory properties...they are opiates, they are pain meds.

-Anti-inflammatories are Advil, Motrin, Celebrex, steroids etc., NOT opiates.

-Anti-inflammatories can and should used as a first-line drug, followed by Tylenol (unless one has liver or kidney issues).

-Opiates are now given very sparingly as other drugs can be effective and are not addictive.

[Edited 4/13/21 20:21pm]

[Edited 4/13/21 20:34pm]

Frankly, as someone who has represented themself as a medical professional, and continued to make what would be controversial statements if you made them in a profresional setting, you've made a number of improper statements in this thread and past threads. Nuff said.

Neither of us knows the limitations of the arthritis Prince had or exactly how it effected his life. It's speculation.

[Edited 4/14/21 0:32am]

When you talk about medications, illnesses, you need to give it the same care that you would if you were talking to some of the engineers about reverb, compression, brickwalling or the folks in the Politics and Religion forum about political statements. Be specific, provide links. You can't say things like, 'anti-inflammatories are in everything' or Fentanyl and Morphine are anti-anflammatories.' They are not and what I am trying to do here is tighten up the loose talk that is pervasive on this site regarding medical, physiological, pharmacological topics. There are too many people saying things that fit their narrative and do not have basis. Sometimes you will not like it. It is not my intent to upset people, but to try to educate and bring some of the knowledge up to today's standards and current practices. Believe me, I wish there was someone else, an RN, MD, Pharmacist who could help me with this.

I do not insert myself in topics that are above my knowledge base, for example, I would never talk loosely with some of the engineers. That is my time to listen.

I try to be very careful when I know a previously-held belief is 'not holding water' as I know it will

likely upset some fans. Believe it or not, I hold back quite a bit as I know there are entrenched

beliefs here.

[Edited 4/14/21 7:27am]

Margot said:

I am trying to do here is tighten up the loose talk that is pervasive on this site regarding medical, physiological, pharmacological topics. There are too many people saying things that fit their narrative and do not have basis.

Nah, that's not what you're doing at all, given you do promote beliefs based on controversial narratives that have little basis and are entirely speculation, to the point where many of your posts are just "I can't say what I really want to" or "Gonna bite my tongue". That's okay, everyone is speculating on a lot of this. You're no different, until you pretend you're an authority.

Nursing could mean anything, btw.

Unlike being an engineer with a niche set of knowledge, we all spend time with health issues or around people with health issues. There are nurses who are not confrnted with arthitic patients at all, whereas, some of us might have intimate knowledge about arthiritis specifically, not brain surgery, but arthritis, which is the topic. It's not reverb, it's the human body, which all of us have.

You did however claim a 50 something year old doesn't typically have aches and pains. That doesn't reflect someone using care towards a topic within their knowledge base.

DENTAL WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just trying to LIGHTEN up the conversation and say that I understand where Margot is coming from but why worry about it? Everything is supposed to be a learning experience.

We can all become overzealous sometimes.

Alghedon Fentanyl Transde... (nih.gov)

The efficacy of transdermal fentanyl for cancer pain and chronic non-cancer pain (chronic lower back pain, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, neuropathic pain) is well established.

.........

Benefits of transdermal f... (nih.gov)

..........

Transdermal fentanyl for ... (nih.gov)

Background: This study was designed to evaluate the utility of transdermal fentanyl (TDF, Durogesic) for the treatment of pain due to osteoarthritis (OA) of the knee or hip, which was not adequately controlled by non-opioid analgesics or weak opioids. The second part of the trial, investigating TDF in patients with rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is reported separately.

.

Methods: Current analgesia was optimised during a 1-week run-in. Patients then received 28 days treatment with TDF starting at 25 microg/hr, with the option to increase the dose until adequate pain control was achieved. Metoclopramide was taken during the first week and then as needed.

.

Results: Of the 159 patients recruited, 75 with OA knee and 44 with OA hip completed the treatment phase, 30 knee and 18 hip patients entered the one-week taper-off phase. The most frequently used maximum dose of TDF was 25 microg/hr. The number of patients with adequate pain control increased during the run-in period from 4% to 27%, and further increased during TDF treatment to 88% on day 28. From baseline to endpoint, there were significant reductions in pain (p < 0.001) and improvements in functioning (p < 0.001) and physical (p < 0.001) and mental (p < 0.05) health. Scores for 'pain right now' decreased significantly within 24 hours of starting TDF treatment. TDF was assessed favourably and 84% of patients would recommend it for OA-related pain. Nausea and vomiting were the most common adverse events (reported by 32% and 26% of patients respectively), despite prophylaxis with metoclopramide, which showed limited efficacy in this setting.

.

Conclusion: TDF significantly increased pain control, and improved functioning and quality of life. Metoclopramide appeared to be of limited value in preventing nausea and vomiting; more effective anti-emetic treatment may enable more people to benefit from strong opioids such as TDF. This study suggests that four weeks is a reasonable period to test the benefit of adding TDF to improve pain control in OA patients and that discontinuing therapy in cases of limited benefit creates no major obstacles.

heartpeacesheart said:

DENTAL WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just trying to LIGHTEN up the conversation and say that I understand where Margot is coming from but why worry about it? Everything is supposed to be a learning experience.

We can all become overzealous sometimes.

I hope all the links I've posted have been educational.

Interesting, arthritis, my favourite thing! One small comment - whether Prince's physical pain was derived from injuries (e.g. repetitive strain) or some form of arthritis or similar condition, tbh it's unhelpful and uncharitable to just write off his use of fentanyl as a mere chemical addiction. Chronic, constant pain has a weird way of rewiring your brain and changing how you see the world. When it gets to the point where even simple things in iife are painful and worsening each day, it's not just about addiction but also a desperation for normality, some respite. Anti-inflammatories, NSAIDs can help a little with flare-ups, and some folk get good results with ongoing immunosupressing treatments like DMARDs and biologics, but not for everyone - sometimes these treatments just make life harder in terms of nausea, tiredness etc (think, chemotherapy and you're on the right track). You can also become immune to the treatments and require bigger and bigger doses through no fault of your own.

I have psoriatic arthritis and honestly, even knowing what fentanyl did to Prince or Tom Petty, if I had their resources and I could access things like that, I'd be into it in a heartbeat. It's hard to explain how weird it is to have the constant presence of arthritic pain in your life, it starts to dominate your every waking thought. Even just a few hours break to play some guitar would be the best fucking thing in the world. Maybe cut Prince some slack on this. Especially if he was seeing a loss of things he really loved like dancing or playing guitar, I totally get it. That sucks.

[Edited 4/14/21 23:50pm]

ian said:

Interesting, arthritis, my favourite thing! One small comment - whether Prince's physical pain was derived from injuries (e.g. repetitive strain) or some form of arthritis or similar condition, tbh it's unhelpful and uncharitable to just write off his use of fentanyl as a mere chemical addiction. Chronic, constant pain has a weird way of rewiring your brain and changing how you see the world. When it gets to the point where even simple things in iife are painful and worsening each day, it's not just about addiction but also a desperation for normality, some respite. Anti-inflammatories, NSAIDs can help a little with flare-ups, and some folk get good results with ongoing immunosupressing treatments like DMARDs and biologics, but not for everyone - sometimes these treatments just make life harder in terms of nausea, tiredness etc (think, chemotherapy and you're on the right track). You can also become immune to the treatments and require bigger and bigger doses through no fault of your own.

I have psoriatic arthritis and honestly, even knowing what fentanyl did to Prince or Tom Petty, if I had their resources and I could access things like that, I'd be into it in a heartbeat. It's hard to explain how weird it is to have the constant presence of arthritic pain in your life, it starts to dominate your every waking thought. Even just a few hours break to play some guitar would be the best fucking thing in the world. Maybe cut Prince some slack on this. Especially if he was seeing a loss of things he really loved like dancing or playing guitar, I totally get it. That sucks.

[Edited 4/14/21 23:50pm]

Thanks for sharing ian, so sorry to hear about your struggles.

Margot said:

As adult fans, it is my wish that we put aside our need to mythologize Prince and his choices.

Opiates are not the treatment of choice for arthritis. Prince played his instruments much more often than most musicians. Most of them naturally take breaks, go on vacation w/o their instruments, etc.

When Judith asked him to stop taking the drugs after she went through that harrowing plane descent,

this is the story Prince told her. For repetitive stress from too much of anything, he could have looked into a less banging piano style, hand rest, ice, elevation, temporary braces, (I wore them @ one point) non-opiate anti-inflammatories, etc. He had tons of choices. But, he was an addict and needed to use.

Correction: He had become addicted to painkillers and was trying self-detox.

Margot said:

RJOrion said:

im sorry if i offend anyone, but im not sure i completely believe Judith Hill's stories...there seem to be some contradictions...i just wish either Kirk Johnson would have spoken up to corroborate her statments, or that she just maintained her silence as he did...between those two (in the Moline incident), one aint saying shit about it, and the other one wont shut up about it... seems sketchy in the least...

I think she was truthful w/the cops. I perceived her, at that time, to not be the brightest bulb and

perhaps still shell-shocked. She was also not in the loop re: Prince's drug connections. Kirk, on the other hand, is sitting on a mountain of Intel.

Now, 5 years after his death, I think she is either being coached(or acting independently) to tie

her current record debuts w/ Prince's death.

Agreed.

tab32792 said:

Margot said:

I agree. I'm a nurse and feel that Prince and others over-used opiates for conditions that can be treated w/less which is why I mentioned Aleve.

Personally, I think he was someone who was too impatient to learn proper technique and had a 'show-must-go-on' sensibility. I really don't think he wanted too many constraints and that included

sleep, easing on the opiates, etc.

He was self taught so that might be part of it. He couldn't read either. He said it would change the way he wrote and played music so he never bothered. As far as the pills, he knew those would work fast for what he needed to do.

I wonder what the truth is. If someone back in the 90s didn't say to him, "Hey, Brother. Try one of these." And that was the beginning of a reliance on pills.

This is not to blame anyone; I just had the thought that if we heard Prince tell his story now, what would it sound like?

ian said:

MoodyBlumes said:

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

ian said:

Interesting, arthritis, my favourite thing! One small comment - whether Prince's physical pain was derived from injuries (e.g. repetitive strain) or some form of arthritis or similar condition, tbh it's unhelpful and uncharitable to just write off his use of fentanyl as a mere chemical addiction. Chronic, constant pain has a weird way of rewiring your brain and changing how you see the world. When it gets to the point where even simple things in iife are painful and worsening each day, it's not just about addiction but also a desperation for normality, some respite. Anti-inflammatories, NSAIDs can help a little with flare-ups, and some folk get good results with ongoing immunosupressing treatments like DMARDs and biologics, but not for everyone - sometimes these treatments just make life harder in terms of nausea, tiredness etc (think, chemotherapy and you're on the right track). You can also become immune to the treatments and require bigger and bigger doses through no fault of your own.

I have psoriatic arthritis and honestly, even knowing what fentanyl did to Prince or Tom Petty, if I had their resources and I could access things like that, I'd be into it in a heartbeat. It's hard to explain how weird it is to have the constant presence of arthritic pain in your life, it starts to dominate your every waking thought. Even just a few hours break to play some guitar would be the best fucking thing in the world. Maybe cut Prince some slack on this. Especially if he was seeing a loss of things he really loved like dancing or playing guitar, I totally get it. That sucks.

[Edited 4/14/21 23:50pm]

Ian is right, We should cut P some slack. I don't know if you're a religous man Ian but I will pray for you to have relief. I hope this doesn't offend you in any way. Very interesting to read from a patient and a nurse perspective, love the. Diversity of the org. [Edited 4/22/21 15:30pm]

Thanks so much for the kind words, I felt slightly embarrassed after posting all that but hey

Digging through Prince concert footage from the 2010s, it's pretty shocking to see how rapidly Prince's health declined in the final few years. Whatever was up there, I don't think any less of him for the way things ended. It's just desperately sad. Just goes to show, none of us know what is around the corner etc. Sorry, I'm being mister cheerful