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Thread started 02/25/21 1:36am

bluegangsta

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“There was a boy named Camille” — Exploring Prince’s Elusive Alter-Ego

Much of the literature written about Prince’s “Camille” alter-ego focuses on the character’s attributed gender or lack thereof. The artist’s use of pitch alteration, which at times created an androgynous-like vocal has lead many to believe the persona is without an apparent gender or defined primarily as an expression of Prince’s exploration of the feminine. Camille is more than a quirky alter-ego represented by pitched vocals, but a character conjured during an exciting yet turbulent period in the artist’s life. Prince would use this persona as a vehicle to explore the concept of dual personalities and the internal struggles between vice and virtue, curating complex and rich mythology often overlooked when assessing the purpose of the Camille character...


https://thevioletreality....1c6e1daec0

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #1 posted 02/25/21 1:06pm

jfenster

Androgine???
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Reply #2 posted 02/25/21 4:13pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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he was described as wearing golden glasses in the script

Bridge of Graffiti -1988-1989

https://prince.org/msg/7/465951

The original GB script Camille poem:

Once upon a time in a land called REAL,

there lived a musician whose name was CAMILLE.

Now CAMILLE was very much like I and U except 4 one thing so unavoidably true

--CAMILLE my brothers & sisters was unmistakebly BLUE.

CAMILLE was the leader of a rock n roll gang. No one could mess with him --

I mean no one could hang.

He could listen 2 our thang, then he'd play it triple time.
CAMILLE got changes that'll scramble your mind just like an egg.

But Camille - he's so lonely & blue.

His best girl, RUTHIE, left in '82.

She went off 2 find the GRAND PROGRESSION

-- a song that would change CAMILLE'S complexion.
Now every year,

he waits 4 RUTHIE's return 2 come & show him every thing that she has learned.

CAMILLE wnats 2 find GRAFFITI BRIDGE.



29261102_1619839628069225_281805964070354944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=xuvmAOMptwoAX8RP68M&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=ca340a71cad4f8cbac77c9e7a7253fcb&oe=6064ADBC

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #3 posted 02/26/21 3:35am

RJOrion

Camille is Baphomet
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Reply #4 posted 02/26/21 5:07am

purplethunder3
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spit

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #5 posted 03/01/21 7:26am

fernandomachad
o

Amazing read!

Not sure if Camille Claudel played any part in Prince's construction of the Camille persona. Camille Claudel (1864–1943) was a female french sculptor that, due to her "unladylike behavior" related to her craft had to endure a lot of gender pressure and sadly became mentally ill and lived secluded for the rest of her life.

"those kind of cars don't pass you everyday"

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Reply #6 posted 03/01/21 10:25am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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@ Große Freiheit 36 club in Hamburg, Germany
August 30-31, 1988

once upon a time
in the land of sin-a-plenty
there lived a little brother named camille.
now camille thought he was the baddest muthafucka in the world.
you understand? camille wasn’t afraid of nobody. alright?
now someone in camille’s mind told him,
“who’s that, man? you the baddest muthafucka in the world. screw him up.
why don’t you put out like the baddest album in the world?
fuck em.
you know all these people runnin ‘round talkin ‘bout making love.
fuck it.
just put out an album of sex with no feeling.
in other words, let’s just fuck.”
so camille sat down and said,
“eric come on and blow the horns just a little bit. just toot a little bit.”
he said “eric, come on, can you just…”
see, he said, “you know i ain’t scared of nobody when i got that.
so i’m just gonna fuck em. see, can’t nobody fuck with that. alright?
so you got all these people runnin ‘round talking all that smack ‘bout makin love.
i’ll do that and just say, man, i want to fuck.”
okay, so that’s what camille did.
he sat down and made this album, right?
and it was bad.
he looked at it and said,
“it’s so bad i ain’t even gonna put my name on the mothafucka.”
no, no, wait.
get to that mentality.
it’s so bad, i ain’t even gonna put a name on it.
you just holdin it, you understand?
you just taste it.

Hamburg-88a-300x225.png

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #7 posted 03/01/21 10:30am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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fernandomachado said:

Amazing read!

Not sure if Camille Claudel played any part in Prince's construction of the Camille persona. Camille Claudel (1864–1943) was a female french sculptor that, due to her "unladylike behavior" related to her craft had to endure a lot of gender pressure and sadly became mentally ill and lived secluded for the rest of her life.

"those kind of cars don't pass you everyday"




Quote from DMSR by Per Nilsen (p 217):

"Prince has hinted that the name was inspired by Herculine Barbin, a famous 19th century hermaphrodite who was nicknamed Camille. Though raised as a female, in his early twenties Barbin was ruled to be legally male."

YAHOO INTERNET LIFE * October 1997

Sites O' the Times

Artists have always been interested in
new technologies. DaVinci was.
Duchamp was. And the Artist is, too.

By Ben Greenman



YIL: This may sound nuts, but does the Camille alter ego, which you used on Sign O' the Times, have anything to do with the famous nineteenth-century hermaphrodite Herculine Barbin, who was nicknamed Camille? If so, my younger brother will be very, very happy, since he has spent roughly a decade trying to convince me of this.

TA: Your brother is very wise.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #8 posted 03/01/21 10:37am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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May be an image of one or more people and people standing

Time upon a once
There was a boy named Camille
Now this boy named Camille
didn't know how 2 feel.
Sometimes he was lonely
sometimes he was sad
but most times
he just took 4 granted
all the nice things
that he had.

Some people said they loved him
but Camille said
"Contempt!
Winter, Spring,
Summer, or Fall,
love is no good
unless it's felt by all"

So, naive & terrifically in need
Camille started looking for answers
His paintbrush the questioner,
his canvas the arena,
Camille set out to silence his critics.
"No longer daring" - his enemies laughed.
"No longer glam, his funk is half-assed...
one leg is much shorter
than the other one is weak.
His strokes are tepid,
his colors are meek."

So Camille found a new color.
The color black:
strongest hue of them all.
He painted a picture
called Le Grind --
hittin' so tall.
And then Cindy C --
THE vogue fantasy.
Horns & vocals 2 die 4.
Lollipops -- in yours!

Stroke after stroke callin' all others a joke.
Superfunkycalifragisexi.

Camille rocked hard in a funky place.

Stuck his long funk in competition's face.

Tuesday came. Blue Tuesday.
His canvas full, and lying on the table,

Camille mustered
all the hate that he was able.

Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his game.

Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his name.

"Tis nobody funkier -- let the Black Album fly."

Spooky Electric was talking, Camille started 2 cry.

Tricked.
A fool he had been.

In the lowest utmostest.

He had allowed
the dark side of him 2 create something evil.

2 Nigs United
4 West Compton.

Camille and his ego.

Bob George.

Why?


#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #9 posted 03/01/21 11:20am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Interesting
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Reply #10 posted 03/01/21 4:01pm

Margot

I am not really that familiar w/Camille in Prince's work but from what I have read, Camille seemed to be the alter-ego that was more 'aggressive' for lack of a better word. Why not a masculine name?

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Reply #11 posted 03/01/21 6:30pm

SoulAlive

as interesting as the Camille persona/alter ego is,I’m glad that Prince never played that character in a movie.That early GB script is a mess and Prince would have surely received a lot of criticism if that project had moved forward.
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Reply #12 posted 03/02/21 5:04am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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SoulAlive said:

as interesting as the Camille persona/alter ego is,I’m glad that Prince never played that character in a movie.That early GB script is a mess and Prince would have surely received a lot of criticism if that project had moved forward.

from what I've read in the script, he was just Prince as Camille. I did read anything that suggested he was anything that would have brought on scorn. I mean the released GB was trash, and will forever receive a lot of criticism.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #13 posted 03/02/21 5:21am

RJOrion

Margot said:


I am not really that familiar w/Camille in Prince's work but from what I have read, Camille seemed to be the alter-ego that was more 'aggressive' for lack of a better word. Why not a masculine name?





he was not a woman...he was not a man...he was something that youll never understand
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Reply #14 posted 03/02/21 5:53am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Prince said Shockadelica was a witch

Spooky Electric is connected to the whole CAMILLE storyline. Has there been any further description of this energy?

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #15 posted 03/02/21 6:30am

jumptheysaid

I loved this , thanks for the memory

OldFriends4Sale said:


May be an image of one or more people and people standing

Time upon a once
There was a boy named Camille
Now this boy named Camille
didn't know how 2 feel.
Sometimes he was lonely
sometimes he was sad
but most times
he just took 4 granted
all the nice things
that he had.

Some people said they loved him
but Camille said
"Contempt!
Winter, Spring,
Summer, or Fall,
love is no good
unless it's felt by all"

So, naive & terrifically in need
Camille started looking for answers
His paintbrush the questioner,
his canvas the arena,
Camille set out to silence his critics.
"No longer daring" - his enemies laughed.
"No longer glam, his funk is half-assed...
one leg is much shorter
than the other one is weak.
His strokes are tepid,
his colors are meek."

So Camille found a new color.
The color black:
strongest hue of them all.
He painted a picture
called Le Grind --
hittin' so tall.
And then Cindy C --
THE vogue fantasy.
Horns & vocals 2 die 4.
Lollipops -- in yours!

Stroke after stroke callin' all others a joke.
Superfunkycalifragisexi.

Camille rocked hard in a funky place.

Stuck his long funk in competition's face.

Tuesday came. Blue Tuesday.
His canvas full, and lying on the table,

Camille mustered
all the hate that he was able.

Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his game.

Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his name.

"Tis nobody funkier -- let the Black Album fly."

Spooky Electric was talking, Camille started 2 cry.

Tricked.
A fool he had been.

In the lowest utmostest.

He had allowed
the dark side of him 2 create something evil.

2 Nigs United
4 West Compton.

Camille and his ego.

Bob George.

Why?


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Reply #16 posted 03/02/21 7:04am

Margot

RJOrion said:

Margot said:

I am not really that familiar w/Camille in Prince's work but from what I have read, Camille seemed to be the alter-ego that was more 'aggressive' for lack of a better word. Why not a masculine name?

he was not a woman...he was not a man...he was something that youll never understand

There is likely some truth there, esp. the bolded (for me)

[Edited 3/2/21 9:09am]

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Reply #17 posted 03/02/21 7:29am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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bluegangsta said:

Much of the literature written about Prince’s “Camille” alter-ego focuses on the character’s attributed gender or lack thereof. The artist’s use of pitch alteration, which at times created an androgynous-like vocal has lead many to believe the persona is without an apparent gender or defined primarily as an expression of Prince’s exploration of the feminine. Camille is more than a quirky alter-ego represented by pitched vocals, but a character conjured during an exciting yet turbulent period in the artist’s life. Prince would use this persona as a vehicle to explore the concept of dual personalities and the internal struggles between vice and virtue, curating complex and rich mythology often overlooked when assessing the purpose of the Camille character...


https://thevioletreality....1c6e1daec0

quote from the VioletReality link

“From that song was born this notion of Camille who might have been male, might have been female, it wasn’t really clear — might have been kind of ghostly, might have been kind of humanoid.” — Susan Rogers (Prince’s engineer: 1983–1987)

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #18 posted 03/02/21 7:55am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Camille could have started as early as 1982??


Vagina was half-boy, half-girl
Her hair was shorter than mine
She told me she lived in the city
I never knew when she was lying
I first saw her in a gay bar (Gay bar)
Kissing another girl
I told her, baby, I'm looking for a turn on
And she said, welcome to my world (Welcome to my world)
Vagina was half-boy, half-girl
She taught me how to dance
Used to do it, used to do it with the TV on
Political romance
Half-boy, half-girl
Best of both worlds
Half-boy, half-girl
Best of both worlds
Vagina was half-boy, half-girl
She had her own way of doing things
But baby, she should have been king
She was so strong and so understanding
Oh, ooh
Vagina (La, la, la, la)
Oh, ooh
Oh, oh, la, la, la, la, oh
Oh, oh, la, la, la, la, oh
Vagina
Vagina was half-boy, half-girl
You never told me how you got your name
I guess you wanted a little fame
I guess you got what you wanted
You got what you wanted, girl
Half-boy, half-girl
Best of both worlds (sing it now)
Half-boy, half-girl (Oh)
Best of both worlds (Everybody now)
Half-boy, half-girl (Oh, oh)
Best of both worlds
Half-boy, half-girl
Best of both worlds
Half-boy, half-girl (Oh, oh)
Best of both worlds (Oh, yeah)
Half-boy, half-girl
Best of both worlds (Vagina, vagina, vagina)
#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #19 posted 03/02/21 10:00am

Margot

I got the impression that Camille, though a feminine name, was an alter ego where Prince could

park his darker, less socially acceptable impulses. C. seemed more (to me), a place to examine

the duality of higher virtues v 'less desirable' urges such as lust, power urges, etc.

Camille could be an unrestrained, dark character not related to Prince.

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Reply #20 posted 03/02/21 10:29am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

Margot said:

I got the impression that Camille, though a feminine name, was an alter ego where Prince could

park his darker, less socially acceptable impulses. C. seemed more (to me), a place to examine

the duality of higher virtues v 'less desirable' urges such as lust, power urges, etc.

Camille could be an unrestrained, dark character not related to Prince.

That's a good expression. Except that Camille would be related to Prince right? That part of Prince where he could unleash those emotions?

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #21 posted 03/02/21 10:41am

Margot

OldFriends4Sale said:

Margot said:

I got the impression that Camille, though a feminine name, was an alter ego where Prince could

park his darker, less socially acceptable impulses. C. seemed more (to me), a place to examine

the duality of higher virtues v 'less desirable' urges such as lust, power urges, etc.

Camille could be an unrestrained, dark character not related to Prince.

That's a good expression. Except that Camille would be related to Prince right? That part of Prince where he could unleash those emotions?

Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?

I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.

[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]

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Reply #22 posted 03/03/21 5:20am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Margot said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

That's a good expression. Except that Camille would be related to Prince right? That part of Prince where he could unleash those emotions?

Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?

I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.

[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]

LOL the same reason he wore his ear ring in on the 'gay' side

Yeah so far I don't understand why that name. Is he saying that unrestrained expression is feminine?

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #23 posted 03/03/21 5:31am

RJOrion

Margot said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




Margot said:


I got the impression that Camille, though a feminine name, was an alter ego where Prince could


park his darker, less socially acceptable impulses. C. seemed more (to me), a place to examine


the duality of higher virtues v 'less desirable' urges such as lust, power urges, etc.


Camille could be an unrestrained, dark character not related to Prince.






That's a good expression. Except that Camille would be related to Prince right? That part of Prince where he could unleash those emotions?





Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?


I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.



[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]



Prince told Oprah he had the spirit/soul of another person inside of him, and he wasnt sure what its "identity" is/was..
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Reply #24 posted 03/03/21 7:42am

Margot

RJOrion said:

Margot said:

Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?

I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.

[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]

Prince told Oprah he had the spirit/soul of another person inside of him, and he wasnt sure what its "identity" is/was..

I remember that. I thought he was messing w/Oprah, though.

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Reply #25 posted 03/03/21 8:17am

purplethunder3
121

avatar

Margot said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

That's a good expression. Except that Camille would be related to Prince right? That part of Prince where he could unleash those emotions?

Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?

I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.

[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]

falloff

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #26 posted 03/03/21 8:34am

RJOrion

Margot said:



RJOrion said:


Margot said:




Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?


I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.




[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]



Prince told Oprah he had the spirit/soul of another person inside of him, and he wasnt sure what its "identity" is/was..


I remember that. I thought he was messing w/Oprah, though.




he seemed dead serious to me...and his lifestyle and persona and aliases, seemed to indicate he was not joking at all...alot of these elite entertainers claim to have another persona inside them, ie Beyonce as "Sasha Fierce"...
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Reply #27 posted 03/03/21 2:52pm

ButcherDog

avatar

Margot said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

That's a good expression. Except that Camille would be related to Prince right? That part of Prince where he could unleash those emotions?

Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?

I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.

[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]

I'm trying to figure out the overlap of the name "Camille", being his mocking, "pet name", for Michael Jackson. Quincy Jones said he kept calling Michael that when he they were trying to get him onboard, "BAD", and Prince gave him a gift, that was the box with a feather in it., that scared Jackson.

The way the Camille character morphs and floats all the way from outtakes in 1982 to possibly appearing on Erotic City, then certifiably through Sign O' The Times,The Black Album,Lovesexy on to the Graffiti Bridge/The Cocoa Boyz concept, is a strong argument for Prince's so called, "sick" side.

Either way...the cat was DEEP with it.

I really like to know if Prince had a therapist, because that's THE ONLY BOOK WORTH A DAMN at this point.

Great thread

Don’t Say, “Damn”, Just Say, “Whoa”
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Reply #28 posted 03/03/21 3:14pm

Margot

RJOrion said:

Margot said:

I remember that. I thought he was messing w/Oprah, though.

he seemed dead serious to me...and his lifestyle and persona and aliases, seemed to indicate he was not joking at all...alot of these elite entertainers claim to have another persona inside them, ie Beyonce as "Sasha Fierce"...

I guess I thought he really didn't like Oprah and was lying to her w/that deadpan way that he had.

He had a bunch of aliases though, that's for sure.

Why would someone need so many aliases??

Jamie Starr, Joey Coco, Camille, Peter Bravestrong, Alexander Nevermind, etc.

I think Camille was way to live in a more rough universe, free of moral obligations.

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Reply #29 posted 03/03/21 3:16pm

Margot

ButcherDog said:

Margot said:

Yes, I agree but why not name him Frank or George?

I just don't hear the feminine in this alter ego, so why name him Camille? I could be missing something and am open to explantions.

[Edited 3/2/21 10:50am]

I'm trying to figure out the overlap of the name "Camille", being his mocking, "pet name", for Michael Jackson. Quincy Jones said he kept calling Michael that when he they were trying to get him onboard, "BAD", and Prince gave him a gift, that was the box with a feather in it., that scared Jackson.

The way the Camille character morphs and floats all the way from outtakes in 1982 to possibly appearing on Erotic City, then certifiably through Sign O' The Times,The Black Album,Lovesexy on to the Graffiti Bridge/The Cocoa Boyz concept, is a strong argument for Prince's so called, "sick" side.

Either way...the cat was DEEP with it.

I really like to know if Prince had a therapist, because that's THE ONLY BOOK WORTH A DAMN at this point.

Great thread

I think you are on to something...the 'sick' side.

Yeah, wow, a therapist...

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