jfenster said:

LoveGalore said:

andrewm7 said:

^ The eighties sure were a strange time, Bowie recanting his bisexuality, Elton John marrying a woman

The themes underpinning both events persist. Being in the closet and forced to adhere to heteronormativity is a real thing people experience. Any gay man my age or older certainly did. And hetero people exploiting the gay community for shock value is yet another trope. Now, I do love me some Bowie, and don't care for exploitation, but hey. If he's out there fucking dudes and then deciding hey this isn't my speed then good on him for having an open mind. He was never not a champion for the underdog. Prince similarly exploited the concept of gender, and certainly looked the part better than many of his peers, but the 80s were rife with this shit. A whole genre of music or two was created around straight men playing dress up. But hey, they get to go back to being brown paper bag ass mfers after they cash the check.

True that. I just want to be clear that I think that everyone should feel proud to be whatever sexuality or gender they identify as without shame or pressure to be someone else

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Off topic comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

so i love the song blanche.

but this line does dissapoint me

ultimately it proves that prince didnt ever really take his interest in challenging gender constructs that seriously

it was probably really just a superficial thing - e.g wearing frilly costumes, womens clothes, high heels ('women dig em'), something everyone was doing at the time, so he was just going along with the trend in the late 70s/80s

which is actually totally fine, not everyone has to be a warrior on all issues, and hey, most people are contradictory, so i can accept that not everyone is going to be 100% consistent

but this line in blanche (in 87, not his JW period), and later stories of him and larry lecturing bobby z on why homosexuality is wrong show that prince didnt care much about offending his gay fans (idk if madonna for example, or dolly parton would cut a song with a line about fags in it), of which there is probably quite a big number, similiar i am guessing to all those people who saw bowie in the 70s and felt like there was a (sort of) gay presence they could see in popular music at last

ofc prince is allowed to mock gays if he likes

but i guess this line shows that for all the people who like to hold him up as some sort of fighter for marginalised groups is pretty questionable

prince was a freak, he flew a freak flag for others too, but didnt mean that that came without prejudices

[Edited 2/4/21 12:05pm]

its just a word..... can we have a sense of humor?... does a sense of humor exist anymore?...

RJOrion said:

this is one of the stupidest threads at this site, of all time...periodt

Nah, you should have been here in the good ol' days.

JudasLChrist said:

Cerebus said:

Yes, they were. They were vastly different. AIDS was a "gay" disease perpetrated upon the world by "fags". That wasn't even a minority point of view at the beginning. Those words were used CONSTANTLY in the 80s. Constantly. It doesn't matter if it made you a "jerk", their use was commonplace in many circles.

[Edited 2/5/21 15:09pm]

You don’t have to tell me I was there living my gay life in Minneapolis.

And I was in the SF Bay Area. Not trying to pick a fight with you, I just think you're being a little bit revistionist with the reality of the time. Or maybe your experience was better than some, or you rolled in different circles. Also, folks all in a bunch because we're talking about Prince saying it. Fine. But the word was used constantly by all types of people during that era. Gay, straight, black, white, whatever. At leat that was my experience to the extent that I'm not trippin' over Prince using the word one time in a song that he never released.

In simplest terms; disappointing, not surprising.

Off topic comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Off topic comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Off topic comment deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

LoveGalore said:

Margot said:

I am curious how many posters on this thread were 'of-age' (18-20+) during the 'Roaring 80's?"

• I was around the periphery of that scene for awhile in the US.

The music scene was full of coke, clubs, promiscuity, sexual swinging of all types etc.

Bowie, Jagger were part of that and everyone knew about their sexuality. Prince, too.

The early 80's were a time before AIDS and pretty wild.

• Many of these folks (Bowie and Co) are re-writing history, maybe not proud of their 80's selves. Bowie also married and had a daughter and probably wanted to protect her from his past.

The early 80s were not before AIDS and the only reason you'd think that is because Reagan's silence on it was so powerful.

It will always anger me when I hear people discuss how great a President Reagan was. Sure, he got them to knock down the wall. But his administration turned their backs to the AIDS crisis that was rampaging its way through the LGBTQ community. Nancy was very close to Rock Hudson and she refused to let him enter the White House after his announcement that he had the virus. President Reagan let thousand of young people die from a disease whose spreading could have been stopped early if he had addressed the emergency quickly instead of ignoring it. Hmmm, sounds very familiar to another guy that used to be in the white house......

This word is in a Dire Straits song also:

See the little f****t with the earring and the makeup
Yeah buddy, that's his own real hair
That little f****t got his own jet airplane
The little f****t, he's a millionaire

This song was released in the 80's also. There was a lot of homophobia happening back in the '80's.

I have never been a fan of Dire Straits because of this song as it's sung in a derogatory manner.

kingricefan said:

LoveGalore said:

Margot said: The early 80s were not before AIDS and the only reason you'd think that is because Reagan's silence on it was so powerful.

It will always anger me when I hear people discuss how great a President Reagan was. Sure, he got them to knock down the wall. But his administration turned their backs to the AIDS crisis that was rampaging its way through the LGBTQ community. Nancy was very close to Rock Hudson and she refused to let him enter the White House after his announcement that he had the virus. President Reagan let thousand of young people die from a disease whose spreading could have been stopped early if he had addressed the emergency quickly instead of ignoring it. Hmmm, sounds very familiar to another guy that used to be in the white house......

He also significantly defunded care and hospitalization for the seriously mentally ill.

I trace the rise in homelessness to Reagan.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Margot said:

Margot said:

I can't believe that saying that someone is likely bisexual generates so much angst.

I've thought he was for 30+ years but pardon me.

That's because no matter how much they say they don't have a problem with someone being gay, deep down, they really do. If they didn't have a problem with it, they wouldn't care if Prince or gay or bisexual and they also wouldn't care if Prince was straight but someone mistaked him for being gay. Hell, if someone mistakes me for being straight, I don't get pissed. I even find it flattering. But boy howdy, let someone even suspect that someone might be gay and all hell breaks loose. I also used to find it funny as hell when they would raise all kind of hell trying to prove to people that Prince was straight and then Prince would turn around and do something even more feminine and they would get frustrated as hell. I would even hear them say during their frustration that it's getting harder and harder to defend him when he does stuff like that and I'm thinking to myself.... "Why the hell are you defending him in the first place if you don't have a problem with someone being gay?".

vainandy said:

RJOrion said:

vainandy said:

That's because no matter how much they say they don't have a problem with someone being gay, deep down, they really do. If they didn't have a problem with it, they wouldn't care if Prince or gay or bisexual and they also wouldn't care if Prince was straight but someone mistaked him for being gay. Hell, if someone mistakes me for being straight, I don't get pissed. I even find it flattering. But boy howdy, let someone even suspect that someone might be gay and all hell breaks loose. I also used to find it funny as hell when they would raise all kind of hell trying to prove to people that Prince was straight and then Prince would turn around and do something even more feminine and they would get frustrated as hell. I would even hear them say during their frustration that it's getting harder and harder to defend him when he does stuff like that and I'm thinking to myself.... "Why the hell are you defending him in the first place if you don't have a problem with someone being gay?".

100%... well said

Agree...

I also think there are a segment of Prince's fans , (mostly male), who super-identify with his success with the ladies and general badassery; the thought of him not being 100% hetero ruins the fantasy/projection.

It takes away the "John Wayne" Prince.

Margot said:

RJOrion said:

vainandy said: 100%... well said

Agree...

I also think there are a segment of Prince's fans , (mostly male), who super-identify with his success with the ladies and general badassery; the thought of him not being 100% hetero ruins the fantasy/projection.

It takes away the "John Wayne" Prince.

i wasnt actually aware of this kind of fan until i started coming here, but there def are a lot of people who get off on him being some sort of bad ass superdick (whos a sex machine to all the chicks etc).

in regard to the below stuff, i was actually dissapointed when prince tried to macho himself more as he got older. i get that he wanted to fit in more, appear more like a normie (relatively speaking obv), and not ruffle feathers, but i did find it a bit dissapointing that as he aged, he seemed to want to disown so much of his earlier behaviour (even if admittedly this might have been what he appeared to represent, if not actually verbalise). mainly cos prince was an example in a way of a man not doing all the usual macho stuff i saw in so much other music. he was softly spoken, quiet often, and obv yeah, he was obv into women (idk if he was ever into men but hey, whos to say?), but he portrayed a different kind of masculinity.

That's because no matter how much they say they don't have a problem with someone being gay, deep down, they really do. If they didn't have a problem with it, they wouldn't care if Prince or gay or bisexual and they also wouldn't care if Prince was straight but someone mistaked him for being gay. Hell, if someone mistakes me for being straight, I don't get pissed. I even find it flattering. But boy howdy, let someone even suspect that someone might be gay and all hell breaks loose. I also used to find it funny as hell when they would raise all kind of hell trying to prove to people that Prince was straight and then Prince would turn around and do something even more feminine and they would get frustrated as hell. I would even hear them say during their frustration that it's getting harder and harder to defend him when he does stuff like that and I'm thinking to myself.... "Why the hell are you defending him in the first place if you don't have a problem with someone being gay?".

TheBigBang said:

I'll never understand this current need to go back in time and pick apart songs that were written over three decades ago using today's social morays. Also, understand that in "a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley," that Prince isn't actually talking as Prince.

.

"a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley's desire,"

.

And later:

`My name is Stanley.`

.

Didn't you notice the lyrical progerssion(s)?

kingricefan said:

This word is in a Dire Straits song also:

See the little f****t with the earring and the makeup
Yeah buddy, that's his own real hair
That little f****t got his own jet airplane
The little f****t, he's a millionaire

This song was released in the 80's also. There was a lot of homophobia happening back in the '80's.

I have never been a fan of Dire Straits because of this song as it's sung in a derogatory manner.

.

It's because of Darwinism.

In other words: it is counterproductive.

Nothing dergogatory, it is simply factual.

.

So it could have nothing to do with the sexual tendencies but more with the unproductive lifestyle.

udo said:

kingricefan said:

This word is in a Dire Straits song also:

See the little f****t with the earring and the makeup
Yeah buddy, that's his own real hair
That little f****t got his own jet airplane
The little f****t, he's a millionaire

This song was released in the 80's also. There was a lot of homophobia happening back in the '80's.

I have never been a fan of Dire Straits because of this song as it's sung in a derogatory manner.

.

It's because of Darwinism.

In other words: it is counterproductive.

Nothing dergogatory, it is simply factual.

.

So it could have nothing to do with the sexual tendencies but more with the unproductive lifestyle.

You may see it that way and that's your right but there's nothing in that song about Darwinism or procreation. I see it as simple homophobia and jealosy that someone has more 'toys' than the antagonist of the song. If it wasn't homophobia then why didn't the composer of the song use words like 'singer' instead of 'f****t'?